Mk1 Sleeping Cars

Chris217

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hi everyone
Anyone have info on allocation of mk1 sleeping cars back in the early 80s.
I want to model an 80s sleeping car formation.
Doesn't matter what region,but if I can find info for any of the sleepers that once operated including M E W or Sc prefix rakes and numbers if anyone has any.
Please include any day coaches or vans where applicable.
Big ask,but help gratefully appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes
Chris217
 
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hexagon789

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hi everyone
Anyone have info on allocation of mk1 sleeping cars back in the early 80s.
I want to model an 80s sleeping car formation.
Doesn't matter what region,but if I can find info for any of the sleepers that once operated including M E W or Sc prefix rakes and numbers if anyone has any.
Please include any day coaches or vans where applicable.
Big ask,but help gratefully appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes
Chris217
Can look at some of the carriage working books for booked formations, but a region and timetable period would help.
 

Peter C

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These links may be of some use:
https://sremg.org.uk/proto/BRSCarriages1_5.pdf (note: an awful lot of reading, and might not pertain fully to sleeper stock)

Wikipedia gives the following information on the fleet numbers, but doesn't include the prefixes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1_sleeping_car said:
Number built380 (133 SLF, 55 SLC, 192 SLSTP)
Fleet numbersSLF: 2000–2132,
SLC: 2400–2454,
SLSTP: 2500–2691
Hope this helps,

-Peter


EDIT: A search on Flickr shows that SLF 2080 had an "E" prefix. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/27301948736/in/photolist-TznLd2-HAzCb5-fdqxVh-fdqzBQ
 

Chris217

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These links may be of some use:
https://sremg.org.uk/proto/BRSCarriages1_5.pdf (note: an awful lot of reading, and might not pertain fully to sleeper stock)

Wikipedia gives the following information on the fleet numbers, but doesn't include the prefixes:


Hope this helps,

-Peter


EDIT: A search on Flickr shows that SLF 2080 had an "E" prefix. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/27301948736/in/photolist-TznLd2-HAzCb5-fdqxVh-fdqzBQ
Thanks Peter.
I don't have any spotting books that go back far enough to cover the mk1 sleeper fleet,
Just wondered if the likes of Penzance- Scotland services for instance conveyed
sleeping cars from multi regions like
W,M or Sc prefix.
But yes,looking for actual numbers with their prefix so I can put a rake together.
Not sure if Sc cars ever worked out of Scotland or even if E prefix cars ventured onto the Western Region.
Wish I kept all my spotting notes now when I visited Stonebridge Park back in 1980 lol.
Cheers.
 

Chris217

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Thanks for your replies.
Just bought a 1980 platform 5 coaching stock book from eBay.
It depicts prefixes for all coaches lol.
 

delt1c

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As far as I remember ( grey cells getting rusty) The SC allocation only worked internal services. The W allocation only worked Western region services. Any services using WCML would have used M allocation and anything on the ECML used E allocation. The longest service I recall was the Edinburgh/Glasgow to Penzance ( summer only) in winter it Terminated at Bristol
 

Taunton

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The Scottish cars indeed didn't normally work south of Glasgow/Edinburgh, and for a long period just comprised five composite cars, four used nightly. Unlike the rest they were never converted to electric heat. On odd occasions when more than one was out of action an ECML car was borrowed at Edinburgh.

The nightly Newcastle-Bristol service was ER cars; there weren't any WR cars at Bristol.
 

Chris217

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I remember Sc prefixed sleepers at Edinburgh
It had D200 on the front as well when it was the last one in service.
Going to Inverness I think?
Only half of one coach had seated accommodation which was packed with bashers lol.
Wasn't aware that Eastern region cars ventured to Bristol.
Mind you,if they came from Newcastle?
 

hexagon789

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I remember Sc prefixed sleepers at Edinburgh
It had D200 on the front as well when it was the last one in service.
Going to Inverness I think?
Only half of one coach had seated accommodation which was packed with bashers lol.
Wasn't aware that Eastern region cars ventured to Bristol.
Mind you,if they came from Newcastle?
There was a Glasgow-Bristol sleeper and I think a Glasgow/Edinburgh-Plymouth so SC vehicles probably ventured towards the West Country as well.
 

Taunton

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There was a Glasgow-Bristol sleeper and I think a Glasgow/Edinburgh-Plymouth so SC vehicles probably ventured towards the West Country as well.
These were all London Midland vehicles, as were the normal daytime services. This approach was true for both ECML and WCML, Scottish allocated vehicles didn't usually venture off their own region, Carlisle was as far south as you might see one.

The Scottish vehicles just ran one from each of Glasgow and Edinburgh to Inverness, joining at Perth and passing their compatriots coming the other way en route. Bit of a description by me in the past here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/sleeper-services-past-and-present.135785/page-2#post-2723071
 
Last edited:

hexagon789

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These were all London Midland vehicles, as were the normal daytime services. This approach was true for both ECML and WCML, Scottish allocated vehicles didn't usually venture off their own region, Carlisle was as far south as you might see one.

The Scottish vehicles just ran one from each of Glasgow and Edinburgh to Inverness, joining at Perth and passing their compatriots coming the other way en route. Bit of a description by me in the past here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/sleeper-services-past-and-present.135785/page-2#post-2723071
Wasn't sure if it was like the CrossCountry fleet where Scottish-based vehicles did interwork into Western Region England, even including the odd use of ScotRail sector livery Mk2 air-cons and the unique Scottish Region only Mk2c CKs
 

47271

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Helvellyn

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Wasn't sure if it was like the CrossCountry fleet where Scottish-based vehicles did interwork into Western Region England, even including the odd use of ScotRail sector livery Mk2 air-cons and the unique Scottish Region only Mk2c CKs
Including the sole Mark 2E TSO in ScotRail, 5813, that I believe was painted by mistake even though it was a CrossCountry vehicle and thus was turning up in Devon, Cornwall or Dorset depending which portion of the Devon/Cornish/Wessex Scot it was in.
 

hexagon789

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Including the sole Mark 2E TSO in ScotRail, 5813, that I believe was painted by mistake even though it was a CrossCountry vehicle and thus was turning up in Devon, Cornwall or Dorset depending which portion of the Devon/Cornish/Wessex Scot it was in.
Hadn't realised any Mk2E TSOs made it into ScotRail colours, having seen a sole ScotRail air-con in XC rakes in a few videos and photos I assumed it was just Craigentinny throwing out the spares to cover
 

Cowley

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Including the sole Mark 2E TSO in ScotRail, 5813, that I believe was painted by mistake even though it was a CrossCountry vehicle and thus was turning up in Devon, Cornwall or Dorset depending which portion of the Devon/Cornish/Wessex Scot it was in.
I used to love seeing that coach when it rolled into Exeter st David’s. It looked very out of place!
 

dubscottie

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There is a pic on Flickr of a ScotRail Mk3 in the West Country on a XC service.

I always found it interesting that the last Mk1 sleeper in service (on Scottish internal services) was one of the coaches damaged in the Taunton fire.
 

Beebman

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Including the sole Mark 2E TSO in ScotRail, 5813, that I believe was painted by mistake even though it was a CrossCountry vehicle and thus was turning up in Devon, Cornwall or Dorset depending which portion of the Devon/Cornish/Wessex Scot it was in.
Sometime in the late 80s I travelled from Reading to Glasgow Central in the only ScotRail liveried vehicle in the train, I wonder if it was that one!
 

Taunton

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There is a pic on Flickr of a ScotRail Mk3 in the West Country on a XC service.

I always found it interesting that the last Mk1 sleeper in service (on Scottish internal services) was one of the coaches damaged in the Taunton fire.
I believe the two key vehicles were broken up, after a long time in store, but the others in the formation with smoke contamination were substantially overhauled, so probably in the best condition to the end. The Mk 3 sleepers had actually started construction when it happened, but were then delayed while recommended improvements were designed and made.

Photos of the fire damaged vehicles here https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/MEMORIES-SLEEPERFIRE.htm stored in the old loco shed sidings, which also gives the numbers of all the sleepers. I was on the other side of the world at the time, and was amazed to find news pictures of good old Staplegrove Road bridge coming up on the California evening TV news.
 

dubscottie

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I believe the two key vehicles were broken up, after a long time in store, but the others in the formation with smoke contamination were substantially overhauled, so probably in the best condition to the end. The Mk 3 sleepers had actually started construction when it happened, but were then delayed while recommended improvements were designed and made.

Photos of the fire damaged vehicles here https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/oldsite/MEMORIES-SLEEPERFIRE.htm stored in the old loco shed sidings, which also gives the numbers of all the sleepers. I was on the other side of the world at the time, and was amazed to find news pictures of good old Staplegrove Road bridge coming up on the California evening TV news.
Just checked there. It was SLC 2423, the second sleeper at Taunton. IMG_20200803_015401.jpg
 

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