MMI Areas

[Chris Page]

I've just found out this week that I didn't pass my MMI. I was told it related to Area C. Does this mean question 3 or is it a more general characteristic that spans all of the six questions?

 

[Stigy]

I've just found out this week that I didn't pass my MMI. I was told it related to Area C. Does this mean question 3 or is it a more general characteristic that spans all of the six questions?

Did they just literally say ‘Area C’? I assume this was just the standard rejection email or similar? You’ll probably be able to get more in depth reasoning in any feedback you request.

Sorry to hear this. Is this your first attempt?

 

[Chris Page]

Did they just literally say ‘Area C’? I assume this was just the standard rejection email or similar? You’ll probably be able to get more in depth reasoning in any feedback you request.

Sorry to hear this. Is this your first attempt?

Yes it was my first attempt. I was told I failed to give a sufficient response to Area C. Does this mean question 3? Maybe it is a criteria that is measured across all six questions? I'm not sure how to proceed for my second attempt. I could change my answer but completely miss the point.

 

[strangemonk]

Advice I can give is

All 6 answers need to relate to the driver role and or skills you are also assessed on your verbal communication skills.

They want to know what YOU did, what's actions did You take.

Difficult situation but still expected to deliver would be to do with remaining composed, calm, being pro active in making judgements, communicating effectively with the relevant parties, being in control.

So all 6 of your answers think if what a driver must possess

Communication
Problem solving
Fault finding
Pro active
In control
Risk aware of situations and environment
Maintain concentration
Can work alone for long periods
Monotonous work pattern
Cope with long training periods
Handle low stimulation

All of these need to go in every answer

Ideally don't lie but if you don't have any experience you can't leave it blank

More truthful your answers are more in detail you can go

 

[Quin79]

Advice I can give is

All 6 answers need to relate to the driver role and or skills you are also assessed on your verbal communication skills.

They want to know what YOU did, what's actions did You take.

Difficult situation but still expected to deliver would be to do with remaining composed, calm, being pro active in making judgements, communicating effectively with the relevant parties, being in control.

So all 6 of your answers think if what a driver must possess

Communication
Problem solving
Fault finding
Pro active
In control
Risk aware of situations and environment
Maintain concentration
Can work alone for long periods
Monotonous work pattern
Cope with long training periods
Handle low stimulation

All of these need to go in every answer

Ideally don't lie but if you don't have any experience you can't leave it blank

More truthful your answers are more in detail you can go

There is no way you will get all of those criteria in every answer, if anyone says they do/can is not being honest

 

[Joliver]

There is no way you will get all of those criteria in every answer, if anyone says they do/can is not being honest

No, but the six questions you answer you will comfortably use those on more than one occasion. Remember, the more in depth you go with your answers the better your outcome will be. They will probe your answer, ask how the situation made you feel, how what you done made you feel etc etc. Very easy to be caught out if you do lie.

 

[Chris Page]

Thanks for your answers. All make perfect sense, though I'm still unsure what area C is. I'm guessing it's the third question? Though it could be something completely different!

 

[strangemonk]

There is no way you will get all of those criteria in every answer, if anyone says they do/can is not being honest

I mean use a mix of those across all 6 of your answers.

I passed using this method on my 2nd attempt.

 

[DMcq2010]

Also i found in my MMi that the questioner probes for extra information or detail by the questions they ask. Maybe think back to the interviewers manner and the questions they asked you to see where maybe you went wrong.

 

[strangemonk]

Also i found in my MMi that the questioner probes for extra information or detail by the questions they ask. Maybe think back to the interviewers manner and the questions they asked you to see where maybe you went wrong.

That's what the Pre SJT is for to ask you answers in how you would react on situations

 

[DMcq2010]

Oh i agree, but surely its still a reflection on the information they are trying to get from you even if it is a reflection of what you put in your pre SJT. Still if its only 1 area that you didnt pass on not a bad point to work from. Good luck on your next attempt.

 

[HantsMan]

From what I understand questions are referred to in numbers and the areas relates to the competency you are scored against. You are scored against each competency across all questions giving you a combined score for each area. So area C will refer to a specific competency such as communication. I’m not saying that is what it is but I am sure if you ask them they would tell you? They will also know which of your answers scored the least points in each competency area which they may also tell you on feedback so you could perhaps know which examples need to be worked on in the future.

 

[Chris Page]

From what I understand questions are referred to in numbers and the areas relates to the competency you are scored against. You are scored against each competency across all questions giving you a combined score for each area. So area C will refer to a specific competency such as communication. I’m not saying that is what it is but I am sure if you ask them they would tell you? They will also know which of your answers scored the least points in each competency area which they may also tell you on feedback so you could perhaps know which examples need to be worked on in the future.

Thank you for this. Unfortunately the feedback given is all they will tell me. Hopefully i'll do better on the next attempt, i'd just like to be able to improve my chances. Nobody said this was easy!

 

[martin2345uk]

It’s a bit rubbish to give feedback that isn’t actually clear as to what you got wrong! They might as well not bother giving any..!

 

[HantsMan]

Thank you for this. Unfortunately the feedback given is all they will tell me. Hopefully i'll do better on the next attempt, i'd just like to be able to improve my chances. Nobody said this was easy!

Sorry to hear that. Which TOC? Some are better than others at giving the feedback. I know some TOCs will fully tell you. Area C is jargon and means nothing.

 

[HantsMan]

Have you read the other MMI tips thread on here added recently Chris? Someone posted the competencies there.

 

[MDCW]

Some good advice in this thread

 

[Chris Page]

Have you read the other MMI tips thread on here added recently Chris? Someone posted the competencies there.

Yes, thanks to strangemonk for that. Just DMed you Hantsman

 

[strangemonk]

Thank you for this. Unfortunately the feedback given is all they will tell me. Hopefully i'll do better on the next attempt, i'd just like to be able to improve my chances. Nobody said this was easy!

Honestly the hardest parts of a train driver assessment is the GROUP bourdon and MMI, personally for me MMI is the only hard part but after failing once I knew where I went wrong and what I had to apply to my answers and passed second time.

Like many others I agree its silly that there's thousands of capable drivers who've passed all the written and computer tests that test all the abilities of a driver would need but they fail on a personality exam.... Which is done by another human. The tests have a score and can be measured, if you have an interviewer who's had a bad day, dosent like the look of you it's all in there hands if you go through.

Loads of people feel like there MMI went bad and passed and loads felt it went amazing and well and failed. So it very hit and miss and don't think it should be apart of the exams.

Yes they are trained and qualified by the RSSB but don't you think a driver manager who's actually driven trains and likely has experiences and incidents to determine if an applicant would make a decent driver rather than a qualified non driving person.

I think they should assess those personality questions in the DMI

 

[Highlandspring]

Like many others I agree its silly that there's thousands of capable drivers who've passed all the written and computer tests that test all the abilities of a driver would need but they fail on a personality exam.... Which is done by another human. The tests have a score and can be measured, if you have an interviewer who's had a bad day, dosent like the look of you it's all in there hands if you go through.

Loads of people feel like there MMI went bad and passed and loads felt it went amazing and well and failed. So it very hit and miss and don't think it should be apart of the exams.

Yes they are trained and qualified by the RSSB but don't you think a driver manager who's actually driven trains and likely has experiences and incidents to determine if an applicant would make a decent driver rather than a qualified non driving person.

I think they should assess those personality questions in the DMI

This is a very good point. I went through the driver application process all the way through stage 1, DMI and the stage 2 computer assessments only to fall at the last hurdle which was the MMI. It became clear to me very quickly that the interviewer (who worked for the TOC not OPC) had either had a bad day or didn’t like the look of me as you succinctly put it.

The interview became an aggressive Gestapo style interrogation and lasted two hours. All my answers were written out verbatim in longhand so I kept having to stop my answer every few words to let the interviewer catch up with what I’d said. She kept pushing and pushing and pushing me to describe my feelings about one particular incident and kept going back to it; I suspect she thought I’d invented it but it was true and I stuck with it. When I tried to answer the question about doing something that’s similar to the train driver’s role I started describing working as a signaller alone in a signalbox concentrating and carrying out safety critical tasks for 12 hour shifts but was told that it wasn’t a suitable comparison and I’d have to come up with a different example there and then. The whole thing was horrendous.

I knew I’d failed before we’d even got half way and it was so unpleasant and demoralising that I have never bothered applying for a driver’s job again. It’s such a subjective test - there’s no third party present or recording made to review it or how it was conducted, only the notes the interviewer makes which could say anything - that it shouldn’t have any part in recruitment. It’s just pseudoscience and I’m surprised RSSB didn’t drop it at their most recent review.

 

[strangemonk]

This is a very good point. I went through the driver application process all the way through stage 1, DMI and the stage 2 computer assessments only to fall at the last hurdle which was the MMI. It became clear to me very quickly that the interviewer (who worked for the TOC not OPC) had either had a bad day or didn’t like the look of me as you succinctly put it.

The interview became an aggressive Gestapo style interrogation and lasted two hours. All my answers were written out verbatim in longhand so I kept having to stop my answer every few words to let the interviewer catch up with what I’d said. She kept pushing and pushing and pushing me to describe my feelings about one particular incident and kept going back to it; I suspect she thought I’d invented it but it was true and I stuck with it. When I tried to answer the question about doing something that’s similar to the train driver’s role I started describing working as a signaller alone in a signalbox concentrating and carrying out safety critical tasks for 12 hour shifts but was told that it wasn’t a suitable comparison and I’d have to come up with a different example there and then. The whole thing was horrendous.

I knew I’d failed before we’d even got half way and it was so unpleasant and demoralising that I have never bothered applying for a driver’s job again. It’s such a subjective test - there’s no third party present or recording made to review it or how it was conducted, only the notes the interviewer makes which could say anything - that it shouldn’t have any part in recruitment. It’s just pseudoscience and I’m surprised RSSB didn’t drop it at their most recent review.

Absolutely agree and sorry that happened to you, my male interviewer was pleasant and friendly before and after but a typical interviewer during.

It's dependant on who you get, I can imagine someone who had 3/4 hour long interviews or more that day being tired or not fully listening to your answers.

 

[Wazza85]

Hi I’m new to this site, firstly how do you even dm people? Secondly I have stage 2 assessments coming up soon, any help or advice would be hugely appreciated. What sort of questions are asked? Thanks

 

[Twotwo]

Just use the search button and search for MMI. Plenty of great advice on here already

 

[Stigy]

Hi I’m new to this site, firstly how do you even dm people? Secondly I have stage 2 assessments coming up soon, any help or advice would be hugely appreciated. What sort of questions are asked? Thanks

You need 5 posts or more to PM I believe.

 

[Westcoast-ting]

 

[Westcoast-ting]

View attachment 66784

Above is the original RSSB standards publication which lists the standards they asses against.

If you search the ris-3751-Tom you can find the later issues which all omit the above table.

I used the above as A guide as to what the questions were looking for ie

Name a time when you had to work hard to achieve a goal. The criteria is proactive and tenacious. So my example was when I had an issue which I had to keep solving for a period of time and never gave up.

I failed 2 mmi’s One pre cut off and 1 after and this above question I failed first time.

 

[whistler2018]

This is a very good point. I went through the driver application process all the way through stage 1, DMI and the stage 2 computer assessments only to fall at the last hurdle which was the MMI. It became clear to me very quickly that the interviewer (who worked for the TOC not OPC) had either had a bad day or didn’t like the look of me as you succinctly put it.

The interview became an aggressive Gestapo style interrogation and lasted two hours. All my answers were written out verbatim in longhand so I kept having to stop my answer every few words to let the interviewer catch up with what I’d said. She kept pushing and pushing and pushing me to describe my feelings about one particular incident and kept going back to it; I suspect she thought I’d invented it but it was true and I stuck with it. When I tried to answer the question about doing something that’s similar to the train driver’s role I started describing working as a signaller alone in a signalbox concentrating and carrying out safety critical tasks for 12 hour shifts but was told that it wasn’t a suitable comparison and I’d have to come up with a different example there and then. The whole thing was horrendous.

I knew I’d failed before we’d even got half way and it was so unpleasant and demoralising that I have never bothered applying for a driver’s job again. It’s such a subjective test - there’s no third party present or recording made to review it or how it was conducted, only the notes the interviewer makes which could say anything - that it shouldn’t have any part in recruitment. It’s just pseudoscience and I’m surprised RSSB didn’t drop it at their most recent review.

Have you considered that this may have been 'part of the test'? I failed my first MMI and felt similarly to you about the interviewer and the process. It only dawned on me afterwards that the manner in which they conduct the interview potentially tests your responses under conditions a driver might find themselves in. For example, asking you to come up with another example... this is putting you under pressure and seeing how you cope? I might be wrong but the feeling I got was that no matter what I said the assessor still kept on asking for more on several of my answers. On reflection I think I must have come across as slightly frustrated and impatient which won't have helped my cause.

Funnily enough, 3 years later, I had exactly the same assessor for my second crack at it and was bricking it. Pleased to say I passed to the enhanced standard and it's because I'd prepared myself with better answers and also was mentally ready if I was going to be put under pressure for further answers etc... as much as I thought the first time around that it was all in the hands of an individual who may have just had a bad day, I've now come to believe that there is no way the RSSB would allow such subjective analysis as it would totally devalue the process and therefore I assume it's a technique they are trained to use to see if you crack and validate the answers you give are genuine. I might be completely wrong, though.

What I would say to anyone sitting the MMI is:

1) Have your answers ready and make sure you have understood how they relate to the role of a train driver;
2) Never, ever lie. They'll pick up on this in a flash;
3) No matter how good you think your answer is, always prepare a back-up if you can. More than one person has had what they think is a good response only to be told to give another (myself included);
4) Be yourself, be relaxed and be genuine. There's no point in pretending or trying to answer how you think they want you to answer;
5) Answer as fully and confidently as you can, addressing the question asked and how it relates to the role of a driver. The more fully you answer the less they have to probe to dig out information. Try not to make then need to dig out info but also try to remain succinct to eliminate 'waffle'. Second time around I wasn't asked to elaborate on any of my answers really, just the standard 'how did that make you feel' etc...

If it doesn't come off then you can either have another crack or say you did your best and walk away. I know it can seem like it's all or nothing but if you never made it as a driver there's so many different career paths on the railway that you can explore and achieve great fulfilment from. At the end of the day it's just a job (I'm hoping a great job when I finally start) but if you follow some of the excellent advice on this forum then you're giving yourself the best possible chance of doing well.

Good luck to all who read this!

 

[Highlandspring]

Have you considered that this may have been 'part of the test'?

Yes I did wonder this at the time. But at the end of the day you’re not there as part of SAS escape and evasion training so there’s no excuse for the interviewer not to at least be polite to you. As you say yourself it’s just a job so why the need for a two hour hostile one-to-one interrogation?

The interview was undertaken by a single person alone with me in the room, it wasn’t recorded and I wasn’t asked to read and sign the notes. She claimed to be writing out my answers in full after every question and she certainly did write a lot. However she could have written literally anything she wanted about me and my answers so straightaway the process is devalued and rendered subjective. What could I have done if she said I’d reached over and touched her knee? Or made a racist comment to her? There’s a reason why police interviews, for example, are recorded and conducted by two people...

A couple of weeks after my disastrous MMI a friend of mine also went through an MMI with the same TOC but with a different interviewer. The story he told me about it couldn’t have been more different to mine; he described having a nice chat which lasted about 30 minutes. My experience is that the MMI is a pointless exercise in making people feel bad about themselves and the thought of having to go through another means I won’t be applying for a driving job again. It’s not for me.