MML Electrification: progress updates

[edwin_m]

Hasland, north of Chesterfield, is future proofing.
It can supply MML, Old Road to Swinton, HS2, Hope Valley, down towards Erewash and Nottingham and any new depots.

On the map Hasland is the part of Chesterfield south of the station. I assume the supply will come from the power lines we discussed a few posts back.

 

[Class 170101]

What happens with the OLE when it finishes in non-terminal station? Does it end within the station area or continue to allow for turn backs / over runs.
Also if it’s specially for the MML into Sheffield / Nottingham, do you wire only the platforms that tend to accommodate the MML services, and leaving the bays out? Would seem ludicrous to wire the north bays at Sheffield!

Look at Manchester Victoria. The east facing bays there are wired. Trains shunt into them as the wires run a short distance further east, useful for stabling but also as an overrun should a train forget to stop.

 

[Meerkat]

Look at Manchester Victoria. The east facing bays there are wired. Trains shunt into them as the wires run a short distance further east, useful for stabling but also as an overrun should a train forget to stop.

Forgetting to stop at Victoria or Sheffield would be some achievement!

 

[themiller]

Platform 2 at Carlisle used to be wired but these are now removed. Presumably it was decided that the cost of maintenance was in excess of any benefit.

 

[snowball]

Look at Manchester Victoria. The east facing bays there are wired. Trains shunt into them as the wires run a short distance further east, useful for stabling but also as an overrun should a train forget to stop.

However the wiring of the through platforms was completed in 2015 along with the line from the west. The east-facing bays and the short distance further east were not done until 2018, and this is now about to be extended to Stalybridge.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Just to let you all know there is now a Wikipedia article “Midland Main Line railway upgrade” that is live and has been approved- I will post a link when I am back stateside probably tomorrow afternoon BST - morning EDT.

 

[YorksLad12]

What happens with the OLE when it finishes in non-terminal station? Does it end within the station area or continue to allow for turn backs / over runs.
Also if it’s specially for the MML into Sheffield / Nottingham, do you wire only the platforms that tend to accommodate the MML services, and leaving the bays out? Would seem ludicrous to wire the north bays at Sheffield!

It's up to the designer. It can depend on local circumstances and current (no pun intended) thinking. There are changes in fashion.

In the original WCML south electrification, practically every siding was wired. When it was extended to Glasgow, it was much more limited.

When electric services from Liverpool Street towards Cambridge only ran as far as Bishop's Stortford, the wires continued for about an extra mile for no obvious reason.

I seem to remember... the original ECML wiring into Leeds was restricted to the through platforms. Then the Leeds North West services were done and more platforms wired at the northern end of the station. Then everything was wired up during Leeds 1st.

 

[londonmidland]

I seem to remember... the original ECML wiring into Leeds was restricted to the through platforms. Then the Leeds North West services were done and more platforms wired at the northern end of the station. Then everything was wired up during Leeds 1st.

I believe during the remodelling and modernisation of Leeds station and its approach, the electrification around the station was completely re-done, as opposed to adding more on top of what was already done.

Initially I believe it was only selected lines with twin track cantilevers which were electrified. This then changed when the new layout was down, with portals spanning all tracks.

Sounds similar as to how Edinburgh was first electrified, with it initially only having selected lines and platforms wired. This then changed to all lines electrified when the layout was modernised.

 

[adamedwards]

Does anything shunt out of Sheffield to the north to release platforms? That would possibly make a case for the wiring going futher, but only if a regular move. I could imaging the 810s keeping a single engine or battery for emergencies and using this for a shunt if a one off.

I'm expecting the wires to end as soon as they can north of the station until there is a project justifying extension eg HS2 or Cross Country wiring from Birmingham to Doncaster ("Look Minister, Derby to Sheffield has already been done, so we have a saving!")

 

[zwk500]

Does anything shunt out of Sheffield to the north to release platforms? That would possibly make a case for the wiring going futher, but only if a regular move. I could imaging the 810s keeping a single engine or battery for emergencies and using this for a shunt if a one off.

I think a fair bit does, but not anything that would be bi-mode or EMU by the time Sheffield is wired. Mostly the local services DMUs. There is a sheffield signaller on the forums occasionally who could give more detail.

I'm expecting the wires to end as soon as they can north of the station until there is a project justifying extension eg HS2 or Cross Country wiring from Birmingham to Doncaster ("Look Minister, Derby to Sheffield has already been done, so we have a saving!")

I'd expect the long platforms and through sidings only, not even the bays to be wired. It'll almost certainly terminate at the overbridge immediately north of the station. XC would need Swinton-Moorthorpe wiring as well as Sheffield-Doncaster, although both of those may be able to justify wires for the local commuter services without XC. I wouldn't hold your breath for XC south of Derby until the rolling stock comes up for replacement.

 

[snowball]

I would hope that by the time the wires reach Sheffield, further extensions will have been authorised.

 

[WAO]

On the map Hasland is the part of Chesterfield south of the station. I assume the supply will come from the power lines we discussed a few posts back.

If you look on Google earth/map or equivalent, at 53deg13min30s N, 1deg23min W you will see the existing SG compound from which the MML feed is most likely to be taken.

WAO

 

[londonmidland]

Does anything shunt out of Sheffield to the north to release platforms?

Yes. I believe quite a few 222s shunt to the north once they’ve been de-trained after working an ex-St Pancras service. They shunt onto the line towards Darnall before returning back to the station.

They usually head out from platform 2, shunt to the north, and return into platform 8 to work a London service.

 

[edwin_m]

If you look on Google earth/map or equivalent, at 53deg13min30s N, 1deg23min W you will see the existing SG compound from which the MML feed is most likely to be taken.

WAO

I assume that was the one I first mentioned about 20 posts back.

 

[YorksLad12]

I think a fair bit does, but not anything that would be bi-mode or EMU by the time Sheffield is wired. Mostly the local services DMUs. There is a sheffield signaller on the forums occasionally who could give more detail.

The 222s did, in 2017/18; I used to see them pulling out as I walked along the road (Sheaf Street?) on my way home, then would spot it returning from the north. I didn't think the locals did though; they usually turn straight around or park up on P3/P4.

I'd expect the long platforms and through sidings only, not even the bays to be wired. It'll almost certainly terminate at the overbridge immediately north of the station. XC would need Swinton-Moorthorpe wiring as well as Sheffield-Doncaster, although both of those may be able to justify wires for the local commuter services without XC. I wouldn't hold your breath for XC south of Derby until the rolling stock comes up for replacement.

I'd expect a bit further than that to allow for any reversals; possibly even as far as Nunnery Square.

 

[43055]

Yes. I believe quite a few 222s shunt to the north once they’ve been de-trained after working an ex-St Pancras service. They shunt onto the line towards Darnall before returning back to the station.

They usually head out from platform 2, shunt to the north, and return into platform 8 to work a London service.

Still happens a few times on weekdays departing north at xx08 between 1008 and 1708 but not 1208 and arriving back around 15 mins later to make the xx37 to London.

 

[59CosG95]

Any work north of Sheffield is likely to involve lots of closures for the viaduct north of the S&SY Navigation, so it's less likely (for now) that that'll be in the programme.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Midland Main Line railway upgrade - Wikipedia

 

[eastwestdivide]

Any work north of Sheffield is likely to involve lots of closures for the viaduct north of the S&SY Navigation, so it's less likely (for now) that that'll be in the programme.

Is there a particular problem with that viaduct? I'd have thought attaching gantries to a viaduct was in the same league of difficulty as drilling piles/building foundations for them.

 

[Class 170101]

Midland Main Line railway upgrade - Wikipedia

Any updates on this

Bidders day for £500m Midland Mainline electrification

Phase 3 will run for 155km from Market Harborough to Sheffield

www.constructionenquirer.com

Bidders day for £500m Midland Mainline electrification

Network Rail is preparing to start the bidding process to revive its major electrification upgrade plans.

Specifically

A market engagement day is to be held for the £500m phase 3 project on the Midland Mainline upgrade next week on the 12 July via Teams.

 

[59CosG95]

Any updates on this

Bidders day for £500m Midland Mainline electrification

Phase 3 will run for 155km from Market Harborough to Sheffield

www.constructionenquirer.com

​

Specifically

Nothing that I know of. I suspect most of the attendees are contractors/consultants and the information is either thin on the ground or confidential.

 

[WestRiding]

I never expected to see serious discussions on Sheffield electrification. Thought it had been cast aside.

 

[zwk500]

I never expected to see serious discussions on Sheffield electrification. Thought it had been cast aside.

It was always going to come back again. The question is whether it stays around long enough to get into sunk-cost territory. Invitation for tender for clearance and wiring contracts is a very positive step in this direction.

 

[Killingworth]

I never expected to see serious discussions on Sheffield electrification. Thought it had been cast aside.

There's going to be a lot more for a station reconfiguration and if all the Sheaf valley bridges need raising, which HS2 suggested they might. Most were rebuilt about 1900 when the tracks were quadrupled.

Lowering the tracks could be difficult due to proximity of the River Sheaf. To cross London/Chesterfield Road the tracks might need raising to give higher road clearances and reduce flooding below them. Every one needs a detailed appraisal. Can the wires be insulated better to avoid any significant rebuilding?

Looking at one specific bridge carrying Twentywell Lane. Apparently the steel girders make that a likely raising job. It's immediately next to a stone bridge across the Hope Valley line which will probably need raising if that is electrified. The road is rising across both of them and has a kink to the east end which, ideally, should be straightened to do the job properly.

Could the tracks be lowered? Possibly, but that would need to be carefully graded between Dore Station Junction and Dore South Junction, bearing in mind the rising gradient towards Bradway Tunnel and the curvature of the tracks. The bridge across the River Sheaf, immedately north of the road bridge, might also need rebuilding to complete a lowering project.

Which is why HS2 were hoping an insulation solution could be found to avoid raising or lowering options. Take that simplified example and run it past all the other bridges, tunnels and lineside structures. Completion by 2030 would/will be a railway miracle if lots of bridge raising and track lowering is needed.

 

[edwin_m]

There's going to be a lot more for a station reconfiguration and if all the Sheaf valley bridges need raising, which HS2 suggested they might. Most were rebuilt about 1900 when the tracks were quadrupled.

Lowering the tracks could be difficult due to proximity of the River Sheaf. To cross London/Chesterfield Road the tracks might need raising to give higher road clearances and reduce flooding below them. Every one needs a detailed appraisal. Can the wires be insulated better to avoid any significant rebuilding?

Looking at one specific bridge carrying Twentywell Lane. Apparently the steel girders make that a likely raising job. It's immediately next to a stone bridge across the Hope Valley line which will probably need raising if that is electrified. The road is rising across both of them and has a kink to the east end which, ideally, should be straightened to do the job properly.

Could the tracks be lowered? Possibly, but that would need to be carefully graded between Dore Station Junction and Dore South Junction, bearing in mind the rising gradient towards Bradway Tunnel and the curvature of the tracks. The bridge across the River Sheaf, immedately north of the road bridge, might also need rebuilding to complete a lowering project.

Which is why HS2 were hoping an insulation solution could be found to avoid raising or lowering options. Take that simplified example and run it past all the other bridges, tunnels and lineside structures. Completion by 2030 would/will be a railway miracle if lots of bridge raising and track lowering is needed.

The insulation solution is applicable to steel girder bridges, and may not have been known about when the scheme was previously looked at, so maybe Twentywell Lane wouldn't need raising. In that area I doubt lowering would be viable, as the river is so close below the tracks.

Stone arch bridges on the former four-track (are there any?) might be OK if the remaining tracks are in the middle of the arches, but that would be incompatible with HS2's proposal which I believe was for three-tracking. Plenty to think about here.

 

[snowball]

The government's transport decarbonisation document is now out. There are no commitments to MML or any other specific electrification schemes, but it does say "We will deliver an ambitious, sustainable, and cost effective programme of electrification guided by Network Rail’s TDNS."

(The TDNS, published last year, recommends electrification for most of the network, with a limited role for battery and/or hydrogen trains.)

See this thread, e.g. post #21:

Government publishes world’s first ‘greenprint’ to decarbonise all modes of domestic transport by 2050

Department of Transport has made a written statement on this but supporting documents and specifically the Rail Environment Policy Statement not yet posted on the DofT website. Thi document will look at The government is also publishing its rail environment policy statement, which will set...

www.railforums.co.uk

It remains to be seen how much longer we will have to wait for specifics.

 

[Western Sunset]

If electrification ends at Sheffield, I hope they don't have the same hotch-potch arrangement as is currently seen at Cardiff Central.

 

[cle]

Seems to be fortuitous timing! There are lots of threads on these, but I do wonder if the murmurs about 3rd rail/Uckfield were also derived from this overall ambition.

A rolling plan makes sense until only batteries are needed for the absolute extremities. However long into the future that might be.

Given as a nation, we are so at path capacity too, in our most in-demand markets - the same rolling closures should be used to extend all platforms to 3 or 4 cars minimum, to enable growth that way. And only procure stock in 3 and 4 multiples, no 2 car units.

If rail has quieter, green and much quicker service, with new stock... people will flock back to it - especially in ex-diesel, and ex-Pacer territory.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The government's transport decarbonisation document is now out. There are no commitments to MML or any other specific electrification schemes, but it does say "We will deliver an ambitious, sustainable, and cost effective programme of electrification guided by Network Rail’s TDNS."

(The TDNS, published last year, recommends electrification for most of the network, with a limited role for battery and/or hydrogen trains.)

See this thread, e.g. post #21:

Government publishes world’s first ‘greenprint’ to decarbonise all modes of domestic transport by 2050

Department of Transport has made a written statement on this but supporting documents and specifically the Rail Environment Policy Statement not yet posted on the DofT website. Thi document will look at The government is also publishing its rail environment policy statement, which will set...

www.railforums.co.uk

It remains to be seen how much longer we will have to wait for specifics.

The supporting rail-environment-policy-statement.pdf is here and has positive statements like with no specific scheme info but this very positive policy statement on electrification.

We recognise the challenges faced by some previous electrification schemes. Our aspiration is to achieve a stable, ongoing rail electrification programme that learns from past mistakes. To decarbonise the railway, electrification must be more efficient than ever before. Work conducted by Network Rail and the Railway Industry Association to identify lessons from past schemes provides a solid foundation but the challenge will be to deliver efficiently in practice. To achieve this, Great British Railways will lead an efficient electrification programme, working with funders and suppliers to minimise the cost and disruption of further electrification. The affordability and value for money of each electrification scheme will be assessed to ensure rail decarbonisation is achieved as efficiently as possible.

There are other sections on other environmental areas but this is a positive policy statement how that now translates into specific projects isn't included but the message is electrification is back on the table if NR can make it efficient enough.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Given the level of prevarication and ambivalence to electrification we've seen in recent years, it would have been a much stronger message if accompanied with a concrete example of where Network Rail is being given the green light to go ahead.