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MML Electrification: progress updates

InTheEastMids

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Totally subscribed. But he's Theresa May's bag holder, so will only go when she goes. May that day hasten on.

It looks increasingly likely that the incompatible red lines on Brexit (no hard border, no CU) and the schism in the Tory party that will happen when somebody is disappointed will see to that. Anybody know what the official Moggmentum position on electrification is?

It appears the current IEP units are lacking in power when in diesel mode, resulting in less acceleration at higher speeds.

Totally agree with this - it's a different set of requirements to the 800s in particular, obviously more similar to the 802, but not identical

I think a certain amount of battery assistance to boost performance on diesel is a distinct possibility as hybrid/bimode technology matures. For instance, if you want an extra 1 MW for say 10 minutes to get from say 75 to 125 mph, then you're talking about a usable capacity of 160 kWh, so maybe an actual of 200 kWh, which is only about double what a Tesla Model S is packing - about 1100 kg. And if they're knackered after 5 years you unscrew them from the bottom of the train, fit new ones and repackage the old ones for static applications e.g. grid support.
Market Harborough's new platforms will accommodate 240 metre trains, and to me this suggests that the winning bid might therefore lead to 24 meter carriages? (i.e. because 5x24 m would be operationally easier than a mix of 4x26 m and 5x26 m trains)

So a 5x24M hybrid diesel with maybe 2MW continuous / 3MW "sprint" mode away from the wires? Time for Hitachi et al to walk the talk about "flexible, modular engineering platforms".

And do we need the to match a Cl222 on diesel? The earlier discussion suggested 222 is only 2-3 minutes better than an HST on a non-stop run like Leicester to London. So how about a Nottingham stopper? In the new timetable this might be Nottingham-Beeston-Loughborough-Leicester-Harborough-Kettering (at which point it switches to electrical power). Can anybody provide some informed speculation about real-world timings that an HST, 802 and 222 might achieve?
 
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A0wen

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Yes because it really is that simple.

Right up to the point that the increased tension in the causes the wires to snap, or pull off the reg arms (particularly on curves) or pull the structures out of their foundations.

A brilliant response from Bald Rick..... where's the like button when needed?

If it were so simple to retension OHLE to allow high speeds, the it would have been done long ago. Of course it's not that simple, like many of the oft demanded improvements or reopenings.
 

MML

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Would it be possible to produce additional carriages compatible for Class 221/222 stock with pantographs, so Meridians can be extended from 4 car and 5 car DMU into 6, 7 or 8-car DMU/EMU units.
The problem with the existing MML Meridian stock and line capacity is there are too few carriages in each train, with peak services running in multiple.

With Meridians becoming available once the Corby-London services go over to new express EMUs, would there be sufficient Meridian units to add 2 or 3 addition carriages to each unit, with a minimum of 2 pantograph carriages per extended unit.
It would probably be cheaper than totally new bi-modes and could perhaps provide the necessary stop-gap replacement of HSTs until electrification of the MML and new electric trains can be purchased.

I'm sure there was originally a plan to turn the Meridian fleet into EMUs by inserting additional carriages.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I'm sure there was originally a plan to turn the Meridian fleet into EMUs by inserting additional carriages.

That was the XC Voyagers, it would have turned them into bi-modes; it was rejected on cost grounds because it would have involved re-establishing a production line for a small number of carriages, the design standards had changed since and there were one or two other issues as well.
 

jyte

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That was the XC Voyagers, it would have turned them into bi-modes; it was rejected on cost grounds because it would have involved re-establishing a production line for a small number of carriages, the design standards had changed since and there were one or two other issues as well.
Project Thor!

Loved that name.

(Sadly?) Thor died for political reasons as the work would mostly have taken place outside the UK due to the lack of appropriate facilities here.
 

MML

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Hmmm...Outside the UK indeed - one wonders whether the current Hitachi production is little more than a political smoke screen. I keep hearing political soundbites of UK manufactured Class 800,801,802 units, yet then read the detailed reports of them being imported from Japan and Italy.
Makes me wonder what actually is being produced in the UK.
 

Domh245

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Hmmm...Outside the UK indeed - one wonders whether the current Hitachi production is little more than a political smoke screen. I keep hearing political soundbites of UK manufactured Class 800,801,802 units, yet then read the detailed reports of them being imported from Japan and Italy.
Makes me wonder what actually is being produced in the UK.

Almost all of the 800s and 801s are being produced in Newton Aycliffe, as are the TPE 802s, the Scotrail 385s. Japan typically build the first couple of units, and Pistoia is building the GWR 802s because there isn't enough capacity at Newton Aycliffe.
 

WymoWanderer

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Last few nights we have seen works going on at the slow line in Wymington. Went for a wander this morning....
Looks like the 4th track work is well underway - track appears to be laid and also retaining walls are being installed.
Also some of the preparation works for pilling has started. There is pilling machinery stored and also I notice there are some wooden markers every 20/30 metres apart in places.
 

richieb1971

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Last few nights we have seen works going on at the slow line in Wymington. Went for a wander this morning....
Looks like the 4th track work is well underway - track appears to be laid and also retaining walls are being installed.
Also some of the preparation works for pilling has started. There is pilling machinery stored and also I notice there are some wooden markers every 20/30 metres apart in places.

Glad to hear the 4th track progress is coming along nicely. I really hope its a good quality track. Once its done will they replace the currently used track because thats old and rickety.
 

BelleIsle

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Project Thor!

Loved that name.

(Sadly?) Thor died for political reasons as the work would mostly have taken place outside the UK due to the lack of appropriate facilities here.

That depends who you talk to. The Government believed that the Alstom site on Strand Road in Preston was capable but Alstom disagreed. It is sadly soon to close.
 

richieb1971

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Capture4.JPG Capture1.JPG Capture2.JPG Capture3.JPG

Image 1 - Wymington looking South
Image 2 - Wymington looking north
Image 3 - Souldrop looking north
Image 4 - Souldrop looking south

There is little evidence of any laid track on the up/down slow as yet.
Pictures taken 12/2/18
 

corsaVXR

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Last few nights we have seen works going on at the slow line in Wymington. Went for a wander this morning....
Looks like the 4th track work is well underway - track appears to be laid and also retaining walls are being installed.
Also some of the preparation works for pilling has started. There is pilling machinery stored and also I notice there are some wooden markers every 20/30 metres apart in places.

What is the plan for Wymington? Just a 4th track? Or is a station being actively considered still?
 

WymoWanderer

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snowball

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Press release:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/road-closure-as-midland-main-line-upgrade-continues-in-bedford/

Ford End Road bridge will be raised to allow for the safe clearance of electric wires which will pass beneath it as work continues on electrifying the route between London, Kettering and Corby.

Once completed, the Midland Main Line Upgrade will create capacity to allow more trains to run and more people to travel along the length of the route from Sheffield through Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Bedfordshire and into London.

Due to the nature of the work, Ford End Road bridge will be closed to motorists from 09:00 on Monday, 19 February until August. A clearly signposted diversionary route will be in place, as well as traffic management which will be staffed and can be adapted according to traffic levels. Pedestrian access will be maintained throughout the work via the adjacent footbridge.

Rob McIntosh, Route Managing Director at Network Rail, said: “We are making the biggest investment in the Midland Main Line since it was first built in the 1870s and this upgrade will allow more trains to run along the route.

“As part of this upgrade, significant changes are needed to many parts of the railway infrastructure to allow overhead lines to be installed. This work is vital to delivering the railway of the future but such work does bring short term disruption to some communities near the railway.

“We’ve done as much improvement work to Ford End Road bridge as we can, but now we need a full road closure to complete the work. We’ve worked closely with Bedford Borough Council and other stakeholders to keep minimise disruption and we’d like to apologise for any disruption caused.”
 

richieb1971

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which is exactly the sort of reasoning used by Grayling to justify discontinued electrification and bimodes

I'm pretty sure NR want a larger gauge on the MML as well.

This situation has been fueled by Bedford Borough council not making a back door to Queens Park. The one that exists is bus only. They have only had 100 years to sort something out. Since the road bridge over the railway is the main and only proper exit suitable for anything bigger than a car is not the fault of MML electrification.
 

whhistle

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It would probably be cheaper than totally new bi-modes and could perhaps provide the necessary stop-gap replacement of HSTs until electrification of the MML and new electric trains can be purchased.

I'm sure there was originally a plan to turn the Meridian fleet into EMUs by inserting additional carriages.
Would it?

Building new pantograph coaches,
from old jigs,
on mid-life trains,
that would need to be tested,
and may not work,

when we're already desperate for pure diesel trains,
instead of some brand new,

cheaper to run,
more economical,
better technological, trains?

I mean, you've read about what SWR are doing about the 707s haven't you?

No trains should be receiving "stop-gap" coaches.
Cheaper to just build brand new trains.
 

mwmbwls

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I've just enjoyed quite a few hours reading through this thread; very interesting.

Firstly, a lot of the anger towards Grayling in the Derby/Nottingham area results from a video interview when he was canvassing for Amanda Salloway in the Derby North constituency during the 2017 general election; when asked, he specifically stated that the only way to guarantee the electrification of the MML was to vote Tory!
And sure enough it was:
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling would like to see electrification of the Midland Mainline happen "sooner rather than later" and has said he wants to see new trains replace "smelly" diesel "as soon as possible".Mr Grayling was in Chaddesden, canvassing with Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Derby North Amanda Solloway, ahead of the General Election - and they both took time out to answer questions about HS2, rail electrification and those dreaded potholes.
Derby Evening Telegraph 17th May 2017

Labour has re-taken Derby North from the Tories after losing it at the last election by just 41 votes.Chris Williamson lost to Conservative Amanda Solloway in 2015 but won with a majority of over 2,000 votes this time.
BBC 9th June 2017

Technically he did keep his promise - Derby North did not vote for his party and that was a specific requirement for MML electrification. So all this time we have been asking who is to blame - now we know - the electorate of Derby North. Who would have thought it?
 

InTheEastMids

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I pity Corby passengers this weekend.
Rail replacement bus to/from Kettering, where they can connect to...
...
A rail replacement bus to Luton or Leicester
<Sound of cheering>

EMT really is a 5 day railway at the moment, and I think the industry could do a better job of communicating what they're actually doing and why a shutdown is necessary. What we actually get are superficial statements about "route improvement" and "essential work". Particularly because most normal people will look at, for example, the massive M1 works around J24 and see that the road is still open. Many may ask why the rail industry can't do this. People may be more tolerant if they had a better understanding of why trying to work with the railway open would be unsafe or counter productive.

Rant over.
 

themiller

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In the likely timeframe for the replacement of the Intercity stock on the MML, I suspect that the GWML electrification will be complete through Bath and Filton Bank to Bristol as well as Bristol Parkway to Cardiff. What would be the problem with ordering some 801s for replacing the 800s on services which didn't need to go off-wires and cascade enough 800s onto the MML. I would have thought that this would be a win win scenario in that MML gets 'new' trains and GWR gets cheaper to run and more agile electrics as originally intended. Any contract variation could be worded to mandate Hitachi as the supplier if necessary.
 

richieb1971

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Most likely case for the lack of services on the MML is the total switch off of any signalling.
 

Robertj21a

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I pity Corby passengers this weekend.
Rail replacement bus to/from Kettering, where they can connect to...
...
A rail replacement bus to Luton or Leicester
<Sound of cheering>

EMT really is a 5 day railway at the moment, and I think the industry could do a better job of communicating what they're actually doing and why a shutdown is necessary. What we actually get are superficial statements about "route improvement" and "essential work". Particularly because most normal people will look at, for example, the massive M1 works around J24 and see that the road is still open. Many may ask why the rail industry can't do this. People may be more tolerant if they had a better understanding of why trying to work with the railway open would be unsafe or counter productive.

Rant over.

I doubt there's many rail passengers from Corby over any weekend. There's not that many outside the commuter peaks on Mon-Fri.
 

InTheEastMids

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I doubt there's many rail passengers from Corby over any weekend. There's not that many outside the commuter peaks on Mon-Fri.

Not surprising given that the train service was - for so many years - non-existent, and is still inadequate (roughly hourly).
By "inadequate", I mean that Corby has a population of >60k, is apparently the UK's unhappiest place to live (according to 2017 newspapers), and has worse life-expectancy and educational outcomes - i.e. improving train services should deliver a wider socio-economic good than just more train ticket sales. So we should be watching carefully over the next years to see if improved services to London really do have the impact that I assume we all hope for.
If a reliable, twice-hourly commuter service to London helps, then this is an outcome that you wouldn't see if you just specify a service based on station usage statistics.
 

londonmidland

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Lots of engineers trains south of Leicester station by looking at Open Train Times map.

Nothing south of Leicester with rail replacement for both EMT and XC.

Does anyone know what specifically Network Rail are working on today?
 

WymoWanderer

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Lots of engineers trains south of Leicester station by looking at Open Train Times map.

Nothing south of Leicester with rail replacement for both EMT and XC.

Does anyone know what specifically Network Rail are working on today?
Driving through Kilby yesterday I saw a freight train sat there in the morning and late afternoon... It had concrete sleepers on its wagons.
 

edwin_m

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Lots of engineers trains south of Leicester station by looking at Open Train Times map.

Nothing south of Leicester with rail replacement for both EMT and XC.

Does anyone know what specifically Network Rail are working on today?
The junctions north of Kettering looked about ready earlier this week. Are they commissioning the double track to Corby or at least the fourth one up to the main line divergence?
 

InTheEastMids

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The junctions north of Kettering looked about ready earlier this week. Are they commissioning the double track to Corby or at least the fourth one up to the main line divergence?

The PR was suggesting they are commissioning the new line from Kettering to Corby. There's no trains between the two stations until 26th February, and there are no EMT services between Leicester and Luton again next weekend.

I would like to think the piling and 4-tracking crews have been out in force, there's quite a few signalling and electrical cabinets that need moving to accommodate the rebuilt line.
 

snowball

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According to the new Modern Railways, doubling of Kettering-Corby is due to be commissioned during the current blockade which ends 25 Feb. Four-tracking south of Kettering not mentioned.

On another page it mentions the possibility of using HST power cars with Mk 4 coaches fitted with an inverter in the guard's space to convert the power. Design of this kit is said to be in progress.
 

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