MML Electrification

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by YorkshireBear, 27 Jul 2010.

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  1. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Say MML goes ahed, would there be a strong case to just carry on the extra miles (dont know how many) to moorthorpe and doncaster from sheffield? Allowing all MML to be electric (cept those which go London nottingham sheffield) And allow sheffield leeds (via bolton on dearne) and sheffield adwick services to become electrified? Also would stopping services from leeds/doncaster to derby be a sensible idea should enough stock become avaliable? (thinking scotrails 322's that are being released)

    Also would it not be an idea at this point to buy XC new dual mode trains that can run derby newcastle electric and derby reading diesel. then allow the existing voyagers to strengthen other services.

    Personally i think HST's are still good enough to be used to the displaced HST's from EMT where would they be good to go?

    On another note, just electrifiy to nottingham and derby and transfer HST's to sheffield services to cut costs.


    i know its a bit long just some thoughts id lke responses to
     
  2. Kneedown

    Kneedown Established Member

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    I've always said that electrification of the MML will be the last major outlay in the drive towards a majority electrified passenger network. Once it's all done, and it ALL of it would have to done (not practical to do via Derby and not the Erewash) then everything else is just infill.
     
  3. ajax103

    ajax103 Established Member

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    Indeed and could mean when there is engineering works on the ECML for example, some services could divert though the MML ie the Scottish/Newcastle services so calling as booked to Doncaster then off to St Pancras via Sheffield meaning the Leeds, GCs and HTs would go via Peterborough and onto Kings Cross.

    It is possible, probably just means a hourly/half hourly service for St Pancras to cope.
     
  4. richa2002

    richa2002 Established Member

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    Unfortunately this sort of flexiblity was severely reduced when St. Pancras (MML) was only built with 4 platforms.
     
  5. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Unless they worked together and there was 1tph from Scotland - St Pancras and then 1tph Leeds - St Pancras and then 2tph Nottingham - St Pancras which could work?
     
  6. LE Greys

    LE Greys Established Member

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    With even more filling in, it's possible to run diversions from King's Cross via Grantham-Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds-York. I've been considering a series of fill-ins along there, although all would require the electrification of TPX South. Norwich-Ely-Peterborough (the second half providing an ECML diversionary route via Cambridge), Grantham-Nottingham, Sheffield-Manchester (part of the TPX South scheme) and Manchester-Preston. EMT would hand the Norwich-Liverpool route over to XC, and it would extend further, eventually running from Norwich to Glasgow with an increase in frequency, using Voyager-based EMUs.
     
  7. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Peterborough-Birmingham, in addtion to a Norwich-Peterborough electrification, would be of use too (I think some of it would be covered by already suggested bits of fill-in).
    Then further away from the MML, ELy/Cambridge to Ipswich, plus the Felixstowe line, allowing much expanded electric freight.
     
  8. ashworth

    ashworth Member

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    Running trains from Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham could be quite fast but perhaps becuse nottingham has always been so much part of MML it has only occasionally been seriously considered.

    Last Saturday I caught the 1230 from Kings Cross and was in Nottingham at 1422. That included a 10 minute wait for a connection at Grantham and a rather slow journey from Grantham to Nottingham with stops at Bottesford and Bingham. Also the approach into Nottingham for the last few miles was very slow with lots of stopping and starting. With electification from Grantham to Nottingham and the raising of line speeds this could be a serious contender.
     
  9. bluenoxid

    bluenoxid Established Member

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    Considered? Unlikely? Grantham - Nottingham is only going to be occasionally used as a diversionary route. What's the point? Surely connecting services into East Coast services at Grantham would work better (and consider that the network is fragmented).

    It will also be interesting to see who occupies the extra path on the ECML.
     
  10. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    I have always maintained that a major electrification scheme is not worth doing unless it provides an electrified NETWORK. There's no point just wiring a single route because it limits the benefits. I firmly believe that the scope of the ECML electrification should have been greater and provided for more electric services within the WYPTE area and included the Newcastle-Sunderland line and more of Edinburgh's suburban network.

    Therefore any MML scheme should provide electrified links to neighbouring locations in order that local services can be improved.

    O L Leigh
     
  11. LE Greys

    LE Greys Established Member

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    Couldn't agree more
     
  12. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Spot on. apart from the North Berwick line and the Shipley lines, the ECML electrification was about as "basic" as you could get (e.g. they could have wired to Hull, wired the Sunderland/ Middlesbrough lines, wired further in Scotland).

    I completely agree with MML electrification, as it would be much more beneficial to the overall network than GWML electrification. This includes Corby (which could go to Thameslink), the lines from Sheffield to Doncaster/ Leeds and the Birmingham - Nottingham line. You'd then have a lot of potential diversionary routes and possible for new EMU links (whereas the GWML only benefits the GWML and would effectively be "stand alone" from all other electrification in the UK)

    However, if the MML were to be wired, maybe the handful of trains to Leeds wouldn't be needed any more, so they'd decide it wasn't worth wiring north of Sheffield - just speculating.
     
  13. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    They are making the MML faster at the moment, but if they wired to Leeds they could extend one of the Sheffield trains to Leeds and it might only be around 20 minutes slower than the ECML!
     
  14. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    All that is still at the planning stage, will be a couple of years before you see any of that on the ground.
     
  15. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I take it your "twenty minutes slower" would involve running "fast" from Leicester to Chesterfield? (just curious)

    London
    Leicester
    Chesterfield
    Sheffield
    Wakefield
    Leeds?
     
  16. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Yes it would, and this most likely isn't possible but from St Pancras I'd have:
    1tph Leeds fast
    1tph Sheffield via Derby
    1tph Derby slowish
    1tph Nottingham fast
    1tph Nottingham slow

    And then I'd extend an hourly Brighton - Bedford service to Corby using 377/5s and then extend another as a stopper to Leicester. To make this work it would mean 4 tracking Bedford - Kettering probably so its just a fantasy thing :), nothing serious
     
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