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More Cambridgeshire bus cuts - Whippet

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AlexB

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Long time lurker, but never started a thread on here. However, another round of bus cuts seem likely in Cambridgeshire, owing to Whippet's decision to stop running their X3 (Cambridge to Huntingdon via Papworth and Cambourne) and C (Cambridge to St Ives via busway) services. Link below:

http://www.go-whippet.co.uk/latest-news/news/

Whippet (now a subsidiary of Tower Transit) have drastically cut the number of services they run over the last few years. We found out on the grapevine last week that the last remaining regular bus to Papworth Everard (a village of around 3000 people and site of hospital, though soon to move to Addenbrookes) - the X3 - was likely to stop after Whippet gave notice of its intention to cease service on November 9th 2018. Apparently, this commerical route hasn't made any money for the last two years, and Whipopet allege that it can't be run without subsidy. This does seem slightly surprising given Whippet recently introduced an (albeit sparse) Sunday service, and that bthey are proposing going form a fairly full timetable (approx every 90 mins) to zero. This will leave the village with only 1 bus a day to Cambridge - the route 8 - which is run by Whippet for Cambridgeshire Council. There has been the launch of a local petition to get the council or the new mayor either to subsidise the service or to get one of the other local operators (e.g. Stagecoach) to operate instead. We are a large village with a sizeable commuting population to Cambridge, so it is pretty shocking if this happens (particularly given all the City Deal money that Cambridge recently won). I am a regular user and the bus seems to be relatively well-used, though I don't know the detailed financials of what it needs to be self-funding.

Whippet have also announced they are to cease their busway operation to St Ives, leaving U as the only one of their buses to use the Busway. Word on the street seems to be that they are pulling out of local services, possibly to focus on their National Express operations and contracts with the University (the U bus is seeing an expansion in service).

Anyway, the village appears galvanised, so hopefully we will save at least the X3 service. The village has a large population of adults with learning difficulties for whom the bus is a lifeline to work.
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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Never traveled on the X3 but it is unfortunate.

The busway going is no surprise with stagecoach being more frequent and there being no multi operator tickets.
 

Robertj21a

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Long time lurker, but never started a thread on here. However, another round of bus cuts seem likely in Cambridgeshire, owing to Whippet's decision to stop running their X3 (Cambridge to Huntingdon via Papworth and Cambourne) and C (Cambridge to St Ives via busway) services. Link below:

http://www.go-whippet.co.uk/latest-news/news/

Whippet (now a subsidiary of Tower Transit) have drastically cut the number of services they run over the last few years. We found out on the grapevine last week that the last remaining regular bus to Papworth Everard (a village of around 3000 people and site of hospital, though soon to move to Addenbrookes) - the X3 - was likely to stop after Whippet gave notice of its intention to cease service on November 9th 2018. Apparently, this commerical route hasn't made any money for the last two years, and Whipopet allege that it can't be run without subsidy. This does seem slightly surprising given Whippet recently introduced an (albeit sparse) Sunday service, and that bthey are proposing going form a fairly full timetable (approx every 90 mins) to zero. This will leave the village with only 1 bus a day to Cambridge - the route 8 - which is run by Whippet for Cambridgeshire Council. There has been the launch of a local petition to get the council or the new mayor either to subsidise the service or to get one of the other local operators (e.g. Stagecoach) to operate instead. We are a large village with a sizeable commuting population to Cambridge, so it is pretty shocking if this happens (particularly given all the City Deal money that Cambridge recently won). I am a regular user and the bus seems to be relatively well-used, though I don't know the detailed financials of what it needs to be self-funding.

Whippet have also announced they are to cease their busway operation to St Ives, leaving U as the only one of their buses to use the Busway. Word on the street seems to be that they are pulling out of local services, possibly to focus on their National Express operations and contracts with the University (the U bus is seeing an expansion in service).

Anyway, the village appears galvanised, so hopefully we will save at least the X3 service. The village has a large population of adults with learning difficulties for whom the bus is a lifeline to work.

Haven't Whippet just parted company from Tower Transit and are now under new management ?
 

Surreyman

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Would seem the change in ownership might have something to do with service cut backs?
Have Cambridge C.C got enough money in the kitty to put the X3 & C out to tender?
 

ac6000cw

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I guess one option might be to try and persuade/subsidise Stagecoach to extend some of their Cambourne (Citi 4?) services to/from Papworth?
 

AlexB

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I guess one option might be to try and persuade/subsidise Stagecoach to extend some of their Cambourne (Citi 4?) services to/from Papworth?
Stagecoach East's twitter feed implied that the council have already asked them. They haven't responded one way or the other, but can see them being reluctant given the inevitable punctuality hit their Cambourne services would take (congestion to/from Caxton Gibbet roundabout in the morning can be very unpredictable).
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Would seem the change in ownership might have something to do with service cut backs?
Have Cambridge C.C got enough money in the kitty to put the X3 & C out to tender?

It's nearly 4 years since Transit bought Whippet so perhaps not the change of ownership. Given they've just sold off Impact, it might indicate a hardening of their views on returns.
 

goldisgood

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Stagecoach East's twitter feed implied that the council have already asked them. They haven't responded one way or the other, but can see them being reluctant given the inevitable punctuality hit their Cambourne services would take (congestion to/from Caxton Gibbet roundabout in the morning can be very unpredictable).
Not just in the morning, it can be bad throughout the day. It would be a risk, but it seems like the most sensible way for the service to continue running at the lowest cost to the council. This extension could also allow the service to go commercial again - if the little loop around Godmanchester is removed then it could run comfortably with 1 extra bus on Whippet's current timings, and with the current passengers using the service from Cambourne it could have a good future...
How long does Whippet have left now? After these cuts there will only be a few tendered routes left.
 
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AlexB

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Not just in the morning, it can be bad throughout the day. It would be a risk, but it seems like the most sensible way for the service to continue running at the lowest cost to the council.
It can be awful for much of the day, particularly with the current A14 roadworks. Friday mornings always tend to be much better, I guess because a lot of people do part time on that day.

Papworth is turning into a bit of a sustainable transport blackspot in Cambridgeshire. The village has been campaigning for a cycleway between the village and Caxton Gibbet for years too to avoid that very congested stretch of road (I have cycled it and it really is lethal). I guess we might finally get one as part of the Environmental mitigation for dualling Caxton Gibbet to St Neots.

In the meantime, if the bus can't be funded, Papworth will become entirely reliant on car-based commuting - not very impressive for a supposed "green" city like Cambridge.
 

Surreyman

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953
It's nearly 4 years since Transit bought Whippet so perhaps not the change of ownership. Given they've just sold off Impact, it might indicate a hardening of their views on returns.
I am referring to the very recent change of ownership i.e no longer owned by Tower!
 

Megafuss

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5 May 2018
Messages
644
Long time lurker, but never started a thread on here. However, another round of bus cuts seem likely in Cambridgeshire, owing to Whippet's decision to stop running their X3 (Cambridge to Huntingdon via Papworth and Cambourne) and C (Cambridge to St Ives via busway) services. Link below:

http://www.go-whippet.co.uk/latest-news/news/

Whippet (now a subsidiary of Tower Transit) have drastically cut the number of services they run over the last few years. We found out on the grapevine last week that the last remaining regular bus to Papworth Everard (a village of around 3000 people and site of hospital, though soon to move to Addenbrookes) - the X3 - was likely to stop after Whippet gave notice of its intention to cease service on November 9th 2018. Apparently, this commerical route hasn't made any money for the last two years, and Whipopet allege that it can't be run without subsidy. This does seem slightly surprising given Whippet recently introduced an (albeit sparse) Sunday service, and that bthey are proposing going form a fairly full timetable (approx every 90 mins) to zero. This will leave the village with only 1 bus a day to Cambridge - the route 8 - which is run by Whippet for Cambridgeshire Council. There has been the launch of a local petition to get the council or the new mayor either to subsidise the service or to get one of the other local operators (e.g. Stagecoach) to operate instead. We are a large village with a sizeable commuting population to Cambridge, so it is pretty shocking if this happens (particularly given all the City Deal money that Cambridge recently won). I am a regular user and the bus seems to be relatively well-used, though I don't know the detailed financials of what it needs to be self-funding.

Whippet have also announced they are to cease their busway operation to St Ives, leaving U as the only one of their buses to use the Busway. Word on the street seems to be that they are pulling out of local services, possibly to focus on their National Express operations and contracts with the University (the U bus is seeing an expansion in service).

Anyway, the village appears galvanised, so hopefully we will save at least the X3 service. The village has a large population of adults with learning difficulties for whom the bus is a lifeline to work.

Whippets are losing money hand over fist, so are choosing to concentrate only on work where they are gauranteed a fixed sum. They are also lobbying for Franchising. Not sure how that looks when you hand back a load of council contracts, like they did earlier in the year.
 

overthewater

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Going by Twitter, it seems that No8 did run all morning because of driver illness. But are making sure its U service has all 8 drivers... The best plan might be to get one of those tiny sprinter buses and operate a shuttle between Godmanchester and Cambourne
 

Ianno87

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I find this whole transport situation around Cambridge just...perverse.

Booming city, unattractive to drive in, tons of demand to travel into from outside (albeit thinly spread across a wide area)...but struggles to sustain a commercial bus network significantly outside the city boundary.

Stagecoach seem disinterested in developing the network and looking for new markets with various housing developments (and even if they did, I think they struggle for driver numbers and have been hiring them in from other areas), and their allocation of vehicles to routes has become more hotchpotch of late.

On the plus side, looks like Whippet's U service is performing well (if helped by the University's subsidy...and the cash cow flow between the station and Addenbrooke's).
 

Megafuss

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Messages
644
I find this whole transport situation around Cambridge just...perverse.

Booming city, unattractive to drive in, tons of demand to travel into from outside (albeit thinly spread across a wide area)...but struggles to sustain a commercial bus network significantly outside the city boundary.

Stagecoach seem disinterested in developing the network and looking for new markets with various housing developments (and even if they did, I think they struggle for driver numbers and have been hiring them in from other areas), and their allocation of vehicles to routes has become more hotchpotch of late.

On the plus side, looks like Whippet's U service is performing well (if helped by the University's subsidy...and the cash cow flow between the station and Addenbrooke's).

According to an industry friend of mine in the area, the MD for Stagecoach East is leaving in December (announced internally today apparently) so things may change in that respect.
 

gingerheid

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I suspect that rather than messing up a service that is happy (and perhaps one of the few they have) Stagecoach would add Papworth into the 18 in some kind of grotty and insubstantial way that won't serve to fend of the long and slow death of that service that has been underway for a while, and / or give it a morning and evening extension of a busway service like Boxworth got?

The decline is remarkable, given the amount of housing built in Papworth (and Camborne, which should help) and when you consider that a few years ago the funded element of Papworth's services was the hourly X5 in the evening. At the moment it's necessary to ensure that there's access to the hospital so there'd need to be be some kind of half decent funded service to either Camborne or St Ives if nobody will run anything, but of course that's not open that much longer.

The really sad thing is that you can't accuse either Stagecoach or Whippet of being uninterested; they've both really tried out a lot of new services and improvements over the last few years. In the case of Stagecoach they just haven't worked unless they've involved the busway (and even then not always; referring to the N). In the case of Whippet it may be that the new model of more modern buses etc just involved too high a cost base for thin rural routes in an increasingly hostile environment for operating buses. But again; they really did try to make their buses and their services more attractive.
 

tbtc

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I find this whole transport situation around Cambridge just...perverse.

Booming city, unattractive to drive in, tons of demand to travel into from outside (albeit thinly spread across a wide area)...but struggles to sustain a commercial bus network significantly outside the city boundary.

Stagecoach seem disinterested in developing the network and looking for new markets with various housing developments (and even if they did, I think they struggle for driver numbers and have been hiring them in from other areas), and their allocation of vehicles to routes has become more hotchpotch of late.

On the plus side, looks like Whippet's U service is performing well (if helped by the University's subsidy...and the cash cow flow between the station and Addenbrooke's).

There's not a lot of large places nearby for the kind of commuter services that some places enjoy (and what places there are are fairly spread out, low density) - which is why P&R seems to work so well instead - it's a bit like York I guess - other than the Busway being a huge success.

Hard also to attract the kind of people to do £20k-£25k jobs in a place so expensive to live too (as you say).
 

Wirewiper

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Charlie Hamilton, Whippet's Managing Director, has just Tweeted today (16th October) to suggest that the X3 may be reprieved.

The C will be no great loss.
 

Megafuss

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Charlie Hamilton, Whippet's Managing Director, has just Tweeted today (16th October) to suggest that the X3 may be reprieved.

The C will be no great loss.

Acting as a saviour for a service he withdrew. Top marks for chutzpah
 

Megafuss

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Genuinely impressed how Whippets have trousered 10k from the Mayor/Council to keep the X3 going when someone else registered a commercial replacement.
 

gingerheid

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The C didn't really serve any purpose at all whatsoever, which again is a shame as they tried hard to make it do so.

While there are multi-operator tickets, nobody knew about them, they were a pig to buy, and buying them didn't make any financial sense. Worse, the guideway isn't covered by the MultiBus ticket, which does make sense...
 
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