More dangerous lineside behaviour around Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by DanDaDriver, 23 Dec 2018.

  1. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Travelling between Chesterfield and Nottingham yesterday there was a short section where a 156 or 150 with open windows would have collected a fair quantity of hedge trimmings. The 158 I was on just had a rub down. (Was on top deck of bus from Keswick to Ambleside last year and those on nearside got frequent showers of hedge trimmings.) But this is a bit of digression from those getting too close to see steam trains.
     
  2. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I think, perhaps, that we are talking at cross purposes somewhat. In no way whatsoever do I intend to "shrug it off". The impact of dealing with the incidents you describe is, of course, horrible. I hope you're managing and I wish you well.

    My point, as you'll see from the longer post I made at almost the same time as you (and so which you will not have read before posting your own thoughts, I am sure) is one concerning responsibility for what is happening, and preventing it. Of course, serious incidents whether they are fatalities, illness, terrorism, or something entirely different impact on all of those who experience them, in whatever capacity. However, in the case of these trespassers, it is they themselves who are making a deliberate decision, risking their lives, and the lives and wellbeing of others. Only they can solve the problem that's happening here, by not trespassing. It's their problem to solve, and nobody else's, is my point.
     
  3. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Whilst I feel an element of regret to this, I have to say I largely agree. People need to take responsibility for their actions.

    Having said that, there’s a more persuasive case for “something needs to be done” as a result of the amount of disruption being caused. I wouldn’t say that something is an outright ban though, not yet at least.
     
  4. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    Football clubs have to pay for the extra police they require at matches. It would therefore be logical for the promoters of these trips to have to pay for the level of security needed to prevent trespass or other dangerous behaviour. This would of course make the whole operation unviable.
    But if the costs of delays to other services was passed on to the promoters, it would be unviable anyway.
    You can tell I have no interest in kettles.
     
  5. duffield

    duffield Member

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    Not directed at any particular person, but:
    I find it really difficult to understand why there are so many posts calling for *all* steam to be banned from the national network when these issues only really relate to one (or maybe two) specific locomotives, and other locos run frequently with no significant issues at all.
     
  6. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    Very good point! The Flying Scotsman is almost certainly the worst engine for trespassing issues, etc. On Saturday 15th June, 7029 Clun Castle ran two railtours. Flying Scotsman ran one. I didnt' here about anything from any of the railtours.

    -Peter
     
  7. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Established Member

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    I am going to add that even if the Flying Scotsman was attatched to the front, you'd still see the "refined basher" type behavoir and they would be bashing something on the lineside such as tunnel mouth, signal post, bridge parapet, some "kettle plebs" tripod, etc

    I do honestly think that its going to take someone either losing their arm, head, other limb or life before something serious is done. There's also the risk that if kids are seeing this type of behaviour they may also attempt to try it.

    I'd rather see these rail tours continue but with proper controls put in place.
     
  8. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Maybe we should show Killing Time in schools - unedited.
     
  9. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    That would work. Maybe Year 7 (around age 11/12) would be best - they need to be careful around the railways.

    -Peter
     
  10. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    My post is what it is and when you categorically state you think it affects no one then I am stating you are wrong - no matter how you tried to dress it up as you are now doing once again..

    Life is hard enough and for those of us who have had to deal with it it puts a lot of pressure on the mind and soul and body and for you to have to shrug it off like nothing is very very worng
     
  11. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    You appear to not actually be interested in reading what I am trying to say. Not a problem; thankfully, the forum has an ignore button. Bye.

    For the record, more than happy to debate the issues with people who engage in reasoned discussion and explanation of points of view. But, "I am stating you are wrong," when the topic is purely a matter of subjective opinion, just doesn't cut it.
     
    Last edited: 25 Jun 2019
  12. Roast Veg

    Roast Veg Member

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    The novelty of the FS will diminish over time until it settles just above the regular steam level of interest, as long as it continues to run. I agree with the posts calling for tight enforcement, far too many examples of wilful dangerous behaivour that need hefty fines from the BTP.
     
  13. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    There are massive amounts of graffiti sprayed around the tracks by trespassers nationwide (some of it probably being applied somewhere right now in the dark) and casualties occurring from that type of activity occur every year. Steam specials bring out the crowds but mostly in daylight hours to see, and are seen.

    Any casualty is one casualty too many, but to save more lives we need to concentrate on areas where they do occur. Those sneaking into depots and onto linesides to add their handiwork to buildings, structures and trains are a greater risk for railways than a few train spotters.
     
  14. silverfoxcc

    silverfoxcc Member

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    Killingworth. I agree 100% with your comments about graffiti and vandalism. However bad as they are, can you tell me how many minutes(the in thing nowadays) have been lost by someone spraying paint during the night,as opposed to many trains being delayed due to the perceived dangers being acted upon by various train staff that these photographers create. Both action are beyond my comprehension.
     
  15. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    I don't suppose anyone could produce that sort of statistic. Last Wednesday night a fellow rail user saw what he now thinks was graffiti artists at work at about 11pm but he didn't call the police because it was dark and all he saw was flickers of torchlight. A large area of new paint work is now present in that area below a bridge beside the track.

    In recent years there have been suicides within a few hundred yards of that spot and only last Monday morning trains were stopped after a trespasser was reported in that area.

    It is a nightmare scenario for Network Rail who can be held liable for both defective lineside fencing and delays to trains. It is also a nightmare for drivers and staff caught up when an incident occurs. My wife was in the leading carriage of a XC unit that hit such a person, clearly heard it being dragged along beneath the train, and saw the immediate effect it had on the driver during the 2-3 hour period as they waited for support to arrive.

    Those who thoughtlessly wander onto tracksides for any reason don't realise the repurcussions that can follow.
     
  16. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    Thing is, however much it can be minimised, some disruption due to fatalities and criminals who commit vandalism, cable theft etc. is sadly inevitable.

    Disruption due to trespass which *only* occurs due to a specific loco being run on the mainline is clearly much “lower hanging fruit” in terms of prevention.
     
  17. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Because no one in the real world cares about Clun castle! It means nothing to normals. ( it means almost nothing to me beyond being green, western streamer!) it doesn't "empty the bars" like FS does.

    Indeed. And picking that fruit will mean all steamers get treated the same.

    PS good to see you back!

    yes we do need to concentrate where there is mass trespass: around FS. If this carries on all steamers will be banned. Quickly. Making silly, false comparisons like this wont win the day. What might is you and other enthusiasts challenging bad behaviour when they see it. We are often told train spotters are another set of eyes on the ground and are always of use to the railway authorities in identifying and combating issues. Start acting like it.

    I challenge bad behaviour when I see it because I don't want stream specials banned. I quite like seeing them run by and I quite like going on them once in a while. However, the truth is that issues around FS cost an absolute fortune to sort out and create massive delays to the travelling public. It simply isnt acceptable. There is only so much patience for these type of things. It is rapidly running out.
     
  18. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    Fair point. But even "normals" are interested in Clun Castle to a certain extent. I know of many people who went out to see one of the Castle's railtours because it was a steam loco!
    But then, I am and always will be a "Westerner", so I'm obviously going to be biased! Anything with the GWR logo on is good - steam, diesel, or electric.

    -Peter


    Edited to fix issues with the quote.
     
  19. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    any fule kno proper locomotives are built in Darlington or Doncaster. Certainly not in Swindon! ;)
     
  20. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    How many went because it was a 'steam loco' and how many went because it was Clun Castle.

    When I see a steam train I go 'oooooh a steam train' When I see the Scotsman 'I go holy shee ! The Flying Scotsman !!' There is a HUGE difference.

    The only steam trains I specifically care about are : Flying Scotsman - Mallard - Tornado (no specific order) Anything else is a generic steam train.
     
  21. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    I beg to differ! :) But that's a debate for another day...

    -Peter
     
  22. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    Fair. I wonder how many people would go to see Clun Castle if they painted it Brunswick Green and slapped some FS name and number plates on it? Just a thought. Is it the engine that's the popular thing, or is it the name? Personally, as it's not Western (see previous posts! :)) I'm not terribly interested in it, but I will happily go to a nearby a heritage line to see it.

    -Peter
     
  23. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    'Normal' people just know the name. I know a little of the history and I know its a famous train. Other than that, why would a steam train interest me. I can appreciate them and their place in history but not much else.

    It's like the difference between someone from Love Island and Tom Cruise. They are both celebrities but one is Tom Cruise.
     
  24. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Or the difference between a Networker and an Azuma.
     
  25. 800002

    800002 Member

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    Just made me laugh rather hard - Thanks!

    I would say, almost without a shadow of a doubt, it is the name.

    There are a lot of 'line-side' people who are in the know, as it were, for steam tours - no matter the tour, for they like the steamers. Scotty just seems to acquire the most attention for its legend, heritage and name. That, and the constant threat of it never running again!
     
  26. FGW_DID

    FGW_DID Established Member

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    HERETIC, BLASPHEMY!

    The angry mob are sharpening their pitchforks and lighting their flaming torches as we speak! ;);):lol::lol::lol:

    01DBA3EA-4ED2-4458-9E39-AD799BD42E90.jpeg
     
  27. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Member

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    Finally, some passion for our hobby :lol: <D
     
  28. Peter C

    Peter C Member

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    Firstly - you're welcome!
    Secondly - yes, FS does seem to be just the name that's bringing in the "normals" (who "normal" people are, I don't know! :))

    EXACTLY!
    The only good engines were built in Swindon and painted in GWR green!

    -Peter :)
     
  29. 800002

    800002 Member

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    Crankus Minimalis ?
    Shame the current 'stuff' in GWR green isn't as good!

    Does this one count? ;)

    *walks quickly away after poking the bear*
     

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  30. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    FS is heading up the Midland Main line from Ealing Broadway to York on Saturday. No doubt the idiots will be out in force again.
     

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