More dangerous lineside behaviour around Flying Scotsman

[Darandio]

Perhaps anyone on the 'fury' side of this question should just ask themselves - have I ever crossed a Pelican crossing when the red man was showing?

All I see in the thread are increasingly silly ways to defend the behaviour of trespassers.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Perhaps anyone on the 'fury' side of this question should just ask themselves - have I ever crossed a Pelican crossing when the red man was showing?

Jaywalking isn't illegal in the UK whereas tresspassing on the railway is?

 

[Master29]

There’s plenty of videos online from the Swiss railway network. Low level narrow platforms with high speed heavy rail. The shots from platform level with the train mechanicals exposed near the pax do make me cringe, although I assume there’s no problems...

I do remember until the 90s people used to access Wigan Wallgate from the King Street gate, walking accross the track onto the end of platforms

In Switzerland earlier this year our train had been stopped by points failure and it was very hot. The train manager said to us if you want to go out and wonder around you can, and so many of us, myself included decided to get out, take a few pics and stretch them legs as it was bloody hot in the carriage where the air con had failed. Another train heading the same direction pulled up beside us as we were in a loop but at no time did the TM have to lecture us on what we should be doing. I don`t think it could ever be the same in the UK.

 

[Dougal2345]

Jaywalking isn't illegal in the UK whereas tresspassing on the railway is?

My point about Pelican crossings was really intended for the moans about people standing on the wrong side of the platform's yellow line...

 

[InOban]

Jaywalking isn't illegal in the UK whereas tresspassing on the railway is?

Yes. There are of course certain roads such as motorways, where pedestrians are banned. Otherwise it is the responsibility of the driver to avoid pedestrians and cyclists.

Always surprises US visitors, where jaywalking has long been illegal.

 

[eldomtom2]

So are there any safety reasons why platform ends can't be fenced off? If nothing else, it would provide a clear visual signal as to which areas are public and which are not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So are there any safety reasons why platform ends can't be fenced off? If nothing else, it would provide a clear visual signal as to which areas are public and which are not.

They are at quite a number of stations now, while new build stations/platforms don't have a ramp at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Switzerland earlier this year our train had been stopped by points failure and it was very hot. The train manager said to us if you want to go out and wonder around you can, and so many of us, myself included decided to get out, take a few pics and stretch them legs as it was bloody hot in the carriage where the air con had failed. Another train heading the same direction pulled up beside us as we were in a loop but at no time did the TM have to lecture us on what we should be doing. I don`t think it could ever be the same in the UK.

Swiss culture is one of self-responsibility, and if you do something stupid and get hurt it's your own fault. Accordingly, SBB is *not* safety driven in the way the UK railway is.

 

[Gostav]

Swiss culture is one of self-responsibility, and if you do something stupid and get hurt it's your own fault. Accordingly, SBB is *not* safety driven in the way the UK railway is.

When this summer a man was killed by train on MML and the line was blocked for a long time, l told this to my friend who is a manager at SNCF and he replayed me: Blocked the line just a person who was hit by a train? In France our train often hit someone and found body along the line but this is no big deal. I don't think he is just joking.

 

[87015]

When this summer a man was killed by train on MML and the line was blocked for a long time, l told this to my friend who is a manager at SNCF and he replayed me: Blocked the line just a person who was hit by a train? In France our train often hit someone and found body along the line but this is no big deal. I don't think he is just joking.

I think he is, Ive been caught up in fatalities in France and it certainly stopped the job.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think he is, Ive been caught up in fatalities in France and it certainly stopped the job.

It stops the job in CH as well while the Police do their bit.

 

[eldomtom2]

They are at quite a number of stations now, while new build stations/platforms don't have a ramp at all.

Any reason why we haven't seen a more general rollout then? They seem to be the sort of thing that would be easy to install, is this not the case or are they not appropriate for all stations?

 

[45107]

So are there any safety reasons why platform ends can't be fenced off? If nothing else, it would provide a clear visual signal as to which areas are public and which are not.

A sign saying “passengers must not pass this point” (or whatever the wording) is not sufficient ?
(Apart from the fact that the trespassers will argue that they aren’t passengers so the sign doesn’t apply to them)

 

[Master29]

Swiss culture is one of self-responsibility, and if you do something stupid and get hurt it's your own fault. Accordingly, SBB is *not* safety driven in the way the UK railway is.

Totally agree. That was exactly the impression I had over there. A railway with a common sense approach. Not that I disagree with the way rail safety is handled in the UK as our railways are a different animal in many ways.

 

[InOban]

You could have Duty Staff only beyond this point.

 

[Dougal2345]

Any reason why we haven't seen a more general rollout then? They seem to be the sort of thing that would be easy to install, is this not the case or are they not appropriate for all stations?

Those platform-end fences seem pointless to me - they don't go right to the edge of the platform so I imagine it's easy to get by them, despite the wibbly-wobbly stuff they put on the ground there. They're generally overly thick and heavy galvanised metal, a waste of resources and ugly to boot.

 

[neilmc]

Totally agree. That was exactly the impression I had over there. A railway with a common sense approach. Not that I disagree with the way rail safety is handled in the UK as our railways are a different animal in many ways.

Yet every time I go to Silverdale station I have to walk ACROSS THE TRACK to get to the Lancaster-bound platform. For all the talk in this forum about the irresponsibility of venturing on the tracks, or even near the edge of a platform, and the supposed high priority given to rail safety, as long as this situation exists, and doubtless hundreds like it, I don't believe a word of it. Basically if what you all (or most of you) say is true, my safety is being imperilled because Network Rail can't be bothered paying for a footbridge. I can use my common sense and visual awareness when it suits the rail network and they are not prepared to fund safety.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Looks like blowback to me.

Looks like it to me too

I have viewed the footage several times and tried to see it as simply "reflections", maybe if it was dark? But, I can't see that as anything but blowback, which is a pretty serious issue.

Aaah.... where would the internet be without all the amateur Sherlocks who only see things via a remote computer screen, yet convince themselves that they know better than anyone who was on the locomotive at the time?

 

[DanDaDriver]

Yet every time I go to Silverdale station I have to walk ACROSS THE TRACK to get to the Lancaster-bound platform. For all the talk in this forum about the irresponsibility of venturing on the tracks, or even near the edge of a platform, and the supposed high priority given to rail safety, as long as this situation exists, and doubtless hundreds like it, I don't believe a word of it. Basically if what you all (or most of you) say is true, my safety is being imperilled because Network Rail can't be bothered paying for a footbridge. I can use my common sense and visual awareness when it suits the rail network and they are not prepared to fund safety.

So you look both ways, listen and maintain awareness of your surroundings and cross whilst spending the minimum amount of time on the tracks.

You didn’t wander on down to the sleeper ends, and gaze at a steam engine whilst slowly becoming tumncescent and ignoring everything else whilst you concentrate on getting the same over-HDR’d 3/4 on image of the same steam engine every other person in the UK has photographed, as all your other anorak bedecked buddies.

 

[DarloRich]

All I see in the thread are increasingly silly ways to defend the behaviour of trespassers.

Agreed it is simply puffer buffers refusing to "own" poor behaviour from thier chums. If they admitted there was a problem and took some steps to help stop it we might make some progress.

Any reason why we haven't seen a more general rollout then? They seem to be the sort of thing that would be easy to install, is this not the case or are they not appropriate for all stations?

Cash and manpower I suspect

Yet every time I go to Silverdale station I have to walk ACROSS THE TRACK to get to the Lancaster-bound platform. For all the talk in this forum about the irresponsibility of venturing on the tracks, or even near the edge of a platform, and the supposed high priority given to rail safety, as long as this situation exists, and doubtless hundreds like it, I don't believe a word of it. Basically if what you all (or most of you) say is true, my safety is being imperilled because Network Rail can't be bothered paying for a footbridge. I can use my common sense and visual awareness when it suits the rail network and they are not prepared to fund safety.

Sigh. Not the same thing and you know it.

 

[Master29]

Yet every time I go to Silverdale station I have to walk ACROSS THE TRACK to get to the Lancaster-bound platform. For all the talk in this forum about the irresponsibility of venturing on the tracks, or even near the edge of a platform, and the supposed high priority given to rail safety, as long as this situation exists, and doubtless hundreds like it, I don't believe a word of it. Basically if what you all (or most of you) say is true, my safety is being imperilled because Network Rail can't be bothered paying for a footbridge. I can use my common sense and visual awareness when it suits the rail network and they are not prepared to fund safety.

Oh come now. DarioRich and DanDanDriver are right. Totally different scenario.

 

[Wolfie]

Well they probably will get away with it won't they? I imagine there are better ways to spend one's time than trawling CCTV and YouTube trying to identify some idiot who's wandered a few feet past a 'must not pass this point' sign to take a nice photograph.

There's a lot of sound and fury in this thread, but all I see is a few people taking pretty minimal risks with their own safety, and I find it difficult to get exercised by that.

Someone dashing across a busy road is probably at massively greater personal risk than someone who's standing on the wrong side of the yellow line on a platform, but I don't stand at my local accident blackspot berating anyone crossing without due care and attention, yelling "Think of your families! And of the trauma you'll cause the emergency services!"

Perhaps anyone on the 'fury' side of this question should just ask themselves - have I ever crossed a Pelican crossing when the red man was showing?

In my view a few of the idiots should be sent down for a couple of weeks. A salutory lesson to the kettle fans and other rail obsessives.

 

[Mintona]

If I was at a station and saw people trespassing, then I’d be straight on a call to the signaller asking for all lines to be blocked.

In fact, I’ve done it before.

 

[bobbyrail]

Hi i am new to all this so could someone clarify something for me.
Some people are saying there were to be no movements on this line apart from the steamer but if there was a closure on the WCML say at Euxton Balshaw Lane due to a line side fire or dare i say it tresspass would the TPE trains from to Glasgow & Edinburgh from Manchester not be diverted down this line?

 

[HowardGWR]

You didn’t wander on down to the sleeper ends, and gaze at a steam engine whilst slowly becoming tumncescent

Thanks for teaching me a new word, although you spelt it incorrectly apparently (tumescent). The videos I have seen of these characters almost becoming splattered makes me think that your description is probably correct. They are an embarrassment to all of us who reckon ourselves to be enthusiasts. There have been, sadly, a few make their appearance on this thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any reason why we haven't seen a more general rollout then? They seem to be the sort of thing that would be easy to install, is this not the case or are they not appropriate for all stations?

Down South we have. Maybe it's just slower investment up North - after all, we've now got 3-line LED displays at even the quietest stations and yet Burscough Bridge (which is quite busy and might as well be called "West Lancs Parkway") still hasn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Switzerland earlier this year our train had been stopped by points failure and it was very hot. The train manager said to us if you want to go out and wonder around you can, and so many of us, myself included decided to get out, take a few pics and stretch them legs as it was bloody hot in the carriage where the air con had failed. Another train heading the same direction pulled up beside us as we were in a loop but at no time did the TM have to lecture us on what we should be doing. I don`t think it could ever be the same in the UK.

Was this a narrow-gauge line, out of interest? These are generally operated like tramways, partly in that they run on roads in places, and partly because wandering all over the infrastructure is generally seen to be fair game unlike the mainline where it is much less so these days. The low speeds and culture of operating like a tramway mean it isn't much of a risk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A sign saying “passengers must not pass this point” (or whatever the wording) is not sufficient ?
(Apart from the fact that the trespassers will argue that they aren’t passengers so the sign doesn’t apply to them)

The measure wasn't so much to prevent casual trespass (though it does do that) but more alongside the fast-line fences to dissuade suicides, against which it is incredibly successful by providing a psychological barrier which is more effective than you'd think (a bit like 5p carrier bags) and also a clear line where anyone watching (either in person or CCTV) can easily know when someone is up to no good as they are in an area where they shouldn't be. Jumping a fence is a fair way higher on the scale of misbehaviour than ignoring a sign, far more people will do the latter than the former even if not mentally in the right place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you look both ways, listen and maintain awareness of your surroundings and cross whilst spending the minimum amount of time on the tracks.

I find it feels really odd and am strongly motivated not to be standing in front of the headlights of the train[1] for any length of time. Realistically, though, a barrow crossing at a station like that[2] is much less dangerous than crossing a dual carriageway on the level.

[1] At Tywyn you'd be waiting a while if you waited for it to go.
[2] I'm less convinced about Silverdale, where there are not only all-stations passenger services but also expresses and regular freights - I definitely think someone should cough up for a bridge there and didn't even know it was a barrow crossing!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could have Duty Staff only beyond this point.

Just make it more forceful.

STOP! (with well-known stop symbol)

DO NOT PASS THIS SIGN!

DANGER OF DEATH!

Cross the line using the footbridge/subway only.

Direct instructions are much more effective than the passive, and PTS-trained staff already know where they should and should not go, so you don't need to account for them on the sign. Maybe even don't have the details of how to cross the line, as that implies it's only wrong to pass the sign if that is your purpose for doing so.

I also note LU have started using "danger of life-changing injuries" which is in many ways more scary.