More express buses in Glasgow?

[CM]

The above is true but in fairness to First, they have revamped the north western Glasgow services with some of the longer services diverted via the A814 - the old 16/44 to Knightswood are now the X4, the 9 to Drumchapel is the 1C, the far end of the 62 (or 66?) is now the 1D... that area has had more of a transformation than most of the rest of Glasgow. The X85/X87 have replaced many of the slow journeys on the Bishopsbriggs corridor towards Kilsyth.

I guess the question of any "express" service is whether it replaces many/all of the journeys on conventional services into Glasgow and whether you use many additional resources - for example, if there's to be an express from East Kilbride into Glasgow then is there significant enough demand for (e.g.) East Kilbride - Rutherglen services for some kind of "legacy" service to continue? Or would it end up like Knightswood, where the X4 runs "fast" into Glasgow but there's no service from Knightswood to the Byres Road/ University area (that the 16/44/44A used to provide).

The extended M74 seems like it'd have been an opportunity to revamp services but... no... there are lots of stopping services to Lanarkshire each hour but only a tiny amount via the M80 (the X1 and X11).

The X1 and X11 don't operate via the M80 and never have.

 

[PaulMc7]

The above is true but in fairness to First, they have revamped the north western Glasgow services with some of the longer services diverted via the A814 - the old 16/44 to Knightswood are now the X4, the 9 to Drumchapel is the 1C, the far end of the 62 (or 66?) is now the 1D... that area has had more of a transformation than most of the rest of Glasgow. The X85/X87 have replaced many of the slow journeys on the Bishopsbriggs corridor towards Kilsyth.

I guess the question of any "express" service is whether it replaces many/all of the journeys on conventional services into Glasgow and whether you use many additional resources - for example, if there's to be an express from East Kilbride into Glasgow then is there significant enough demand for (e.g.) East Kilbride - Rutherglen services for some kind of "legacy" service to continue? Or would it end up like Knightswood, where the X4 runs "fast" into Glasgow but there's no service from Knightswood to the Byres Road/ University area (that the 16/44/44A used to provide).

The extended M74 seems like it'd have been an opportunity to revamp services but... no... there are lots of stopping services to Lanarkshire each hour but only a tiny amount via the M80 (the X1 and X11).

That's definitely true. I'm amazed the X4 isn't peak time only but with constant cuts to the 4/4A I don't know what they would actually do in order to replace that. With how big East Kilbride is I'm sure the demand could still be there. The M74 is really underused tbh. Buchanan Bus station seems to be the only place X services run from except the X4 so maybe spreading them about the city centre could also help

 

[christopherrfc]

The above is true but in fairness to First, they have revamped the north western Glasgow services with some of the longer services diverted via the A814 - the old 16/44 to Knightswood are now the X4, the 9 to Drumchapel is the 1C, the far end of the 62 (or 66?) is now the 1D... that area has had more of a transformation than most of the rest of Glasgow. The X85/X87 have replaced many of the slow journeys on the Bishopsbriggs corridor towards Kilsyth.

I guess the question of any "express" service is whether it replaces many/all of the journeys on conventional services into Glasgow and whether you use many additional resources - for example, if there's to be an express from East Kilbride into Glasgow then is there significant enough demand for (e.g.) East Kilbride - Rutherglen services for some kind of "legacy" service to continue? Or would it end up like Knightswood, where the X4 runs "fast" into Glasgow but there's no service from Knightswood to the Byres Road/ University area (that the 16/44/44A used to provide).

The extended M74 seems like it'd have been an opportunity to revamp services but... no... there are lots of stopping services to Lanarkshire each hour but only a tiny amount via the M80 (the X1 and X11).

It was the 42 that the 1C replaced as the 3 replaced service 9 to drumchapel also the x85/x87 mostly replace the x75/x80 peek hour services which is almost the same and none of those services has never went to Kilsyth as the current 89 goes there

 

[tbtc]

The X1 and X11 don't operate via the M80 and never have.

Apologies - should have said M8

That's definitely true. I'm amazed the X4 isn't peak time only but with constant cuts to the 4/4A I don't know what they would actually do in order to replace that. With how big East Kilbride is I'm sure the demand could still be there. The M74 is really underused tbh. Buchanan Bus station seems to be the only place X services run from except the X4 so maybe spreading them about the city centre could also help

I think that, if East Kilbride had a "fast" service it'd be serving the eastern side (which the train can't reach) - but would it be better as a "fast" service from the town centre into Glasgow or a "round the houses" service (e.g. in the way that the X3 serves suburbs of Cumbernauld rather than concentrating on the fastest time from central Cumbernauld into Glasgow)

It was the 42 that the 1C replaced as the 3 replaced service 9 to drumchapel

Apologies - getting my Drumchapel routes mixed up.

The 1C is a good bit faster than the 42 though

the x85/x87 mostly replace the x75/x80 peek hour services which is almost the same and none of those services has never went to Kilsyth as the current 89 goes there

I've never been great on the Lenzie/ Kirkintilloch/ Kilsyth boundaries - my point should have been that the X85/X87 are a frequent daytime service to the north east that have replaced a chunk of the slow service via Bishopbriggs - e.g. the 88 used to be a "Turn Up And Go" Overground service but has been reduced in frequency as the longer distance passengers use Motorway services.

Similarly, the 36 used to be every fifteen minutes from Glasgow through Stepps to Cumbernauld (the old Kelvin 40/50 were every ten minutes IIRC), but now the M80 services provide a much faster route - so Glasgow services do evolve over time - for all that we can point at the experiments that didn't work (or fast services that were scaled back)

 

[PaulMc7]

Apologies - should have said M8



I think that, if East Kilbride had a "fast" service it'd be serving the eastern side (which the train can't reach) - but would it be better as a "fast" service from the town centre into Glasgow or a "round the houses" service (e.g. in the way that the X3 serves suburbs of Cumbernauld rather than concentrating on the fastest time from central Cumbernauld into Glasgow)



Apologies - getting my Drumchapel routes mixed up.

The 1C is a good bit faster than the 42 though



I've never been great on the Lenzie/ Kirkintilloch/ Kilsyth boundaries - my point should have been that the X85/X87 are a frequent daytime service to the north east that have replaced a chunk of the slow service via Bishopbriggs - e.g. the 88 used to be a "Turn Up And Go" Overground service but has been reduced in frequency as the longer distance passengers use Motorway services.

Similarly, the 36 used to be every fifteen minutes from Glasgow through Stepps to Cumbernauld (the old Kelvin 40/50 were every ten minutes IIRC), but now the M80 services provide a much faster route - so Glasgow services do evolve over time - for all that we can point at the experiments that didn't work (or fast services that were scaled back)

If I was too put a bus into East Kilbride it would either be Lindsayfield which only has McGills 395 which is 1 an hour or the bus station I'd start it from and then run it through St Leonards and Calderwood to give an alternative to the 6 and 21. I remember the 36 pretty well tbh. I doubt Cumbernauld would work for another express bus due to the dominance Stagecoach currently have. The main areas I'd target with express buses are certainly East Kilbride, Paisley and Glasgow Fort with an extension to Baillieston. It's weird having 2 areas right next to each other with no link to each other at all except McGills 310 which is 1 bus an hour. I think they could maybe try running the X1,X8 and X11 later out of Glasgow because even at night the buses to Hamilton and Motherwell take an hour from Glasgow and with Silverburn being a considerably good shopping centre, more X8s could work. Could even bring a local bus back to cover Pollok and run the X8 to Barrhead or Neilston to take on Mcgills

 

[KGGXXXY]

Yeah will certainly do that although I do think it's only natural to compare to previous and existing services

This thread certainly has traction now (excuse the pun), been a good read, I agree the M74 (especially given its proximity to calendonia depot in the case of First) and the southside have some potential for new express services. Always wondered if Stagecoach or another operator would innovate along the M77 again in the mould of the x9 and x10 especially with all the new housing alongside the motorway at Cowglen, Darnley and the Mearns.

 

[PaulMc7]

This thread certainly has traction now (excuse the pun), been a good read, I agree the M74 (especially given its proximity to calendonia depot in the case of First) and the southside have some potential for new express services. Always wondered if Stagecoach or another operator would innovate along the M77 again in the mould of the x9 and x10 especially with all the new housing alongside the motorway at Cowglen, Darnley and the Mearns.

It helps that we've all got some very interesting yet so realistic ideas. It's bizarre as to why First don't utilise the M74 more because Caledonia Depot is their main depot and Blantyre is also so close to it. Yeah the south side lacks express buses and it's where most of the new houses are. If Osborne St wasn't such a busy terminus area already I'd even suggest a Lanarkshire express from there but to go onto the M74 following the same route as the 21 and 267 til Polmadie

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Apologies - should have said M8



I think that, if East Kilbride had a "fast" service it'd be serving the eastern side (which the train can't reach) - but would it be better as a "fast" service from the town centre into Glasgow or a "round the houses" service (e.g. in the way that the X3 serves suburbs of Cumbernauld rather than concentrating on the fastest time from central Cumbernauld into Glasgow)



Apologies - getting my Drumchapel routes mixed up.

The 1C is a good bit faster than the 42 though



I've never been great on the Lenzie/ Kirkintilloch/ Kilsyth boundaries - my point should have been that the X85/X87 are a frequent daytime service to the north east that have replaced a chunk of the slow service via Bishopbriggs - e.g. the 88 used to be a "Turn Up And Go" Overground service but has been reduced in frequency as the longer distance passengers use Motorway services.

Similarly, the 36 used to be every fifteen minutes from Glasgow through Stepps to Cumbernauld (the old Kelvin 40/50 were every ten minutes IIRC), but now the M80 services provide a much faster route - so Glasgow services do evolve over time - for all that we can point at the experiments that didn't work (or fast services that were scaled back)

Some great knowledge you have even though you slipped up in some of the detail in your earlier post.

There was an attempt at a Kilsyth express. The X86 was operated by First Glasgow then it was extended to Falkirk and run by First Midland Bluebird before it kicked the bucket. Only a few months ago First stared an X35 which originates in Falkirk and goes via Bonnybridge, Kilsyth, Croy and Muirhead into Glasgow but its not much of an alternative to the 89 when it comes to journey times.

 

[PaulMc7]

Some great knowledge you have even though you slipped up in some of the detail in your earlier post.

There was an attempt at a Kilsyth express. The X86 was operated by First Glasgow then it was extended to Falkirk and run by First Midland Bluebird before it kicked the bucket. Only a few months ago First stared an X35 which originates in Falkirk and goes via Bonnybridge, Kilsyth, Croy and Muirhead into Glasgow but its not much of an alternative to the 89 when it comes to journey times.

Yeah the X35 is actually as long as the 89 and I don't even think the 89 is that long tbh. It's probably one of First's more enjoyable journeys

 

[38A-Z]

Not an express service but to reduce the service time to East Kilbride, the 21 to EK could use the Cathkin Relief Road.

There are 4 21’s an hour, 2 terminate at Springhall/ Cathkin and 2 at Gardenhall.

The Cathkin/ Springhall ones could continue to go through Fernhill, the EK buses could use the new Relief Road, which also picks up the back end of both Fernhill and High Burnside.

Fernhill is a nightmare with parked cars and the pedestrian bit. Fernhill also gets the 65 so would still have 2 buses an hour from that with 2 on the 21 short as well, the EK ones could use the Cathkin Relief road to speed up the EK to Glasgow bit.

It’s not an express, but any time reduction from EK to Glasgow I’m sure would be appreciated.

Good thread.

 

[PaulMc7]

Not an express service but to reduce the service time to East Kilbride, the 21 to EK could use the Cathkin Relief Road.

There are 4 21’s an hour, 2 terminate at Springhall/ Cathkin and 2 at Gardenhall.

The Cathkin/ Springhall ones could continue to go through Fernhill, the EK buses could use the new Relief Road, which also picks up the back end of both Fernhill and High Burnside.

Fernhill is a nightmare with parked cars and the pedestrian bit. Fernhill also gets the 65 so would still have 2 buses an hour from that with 2 on the 21 short as well, the EK ones could use the Cathkin Relief road to speed up the EK to Glasgow bit.

It’s not an express, but any time reduction from EK to Glasgow I’m sure would be appreciated.

Good thread.

Thank you. Yeah I definitely agree about the 21s. I'd even maybe consider rerouting them in East Kilbride as EK is about half of the route itself