More fun with VTEC's website

Gerald Fiennes · 7 Mar 2018

Any thoughts on this one? I'm trying to book a 'Saver Half Single", ie. an SSU or SSH, from LDS to KGX this Sunday for £54.50 but the system refuses to offer a railcard discount for this. It does offer a railcard discount on the ADV fares, however. I get that these fares are only sold via the website but is this some weird pricing system that sets quotas for railcard reductions as distinct from the base tickets coming into effect?. The rules on the VTEC website and on BRFares.com say that these fares are eligible for railcard discounts. Is this a system thing (I tried the AGA and the TPE websites and got the same problem thought), a deliberate policy to confuse everyone even further or a SNAFU?!!!

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Wallsendmag · 7 Mar 2018

SSU or SSH aren’t available on the VTEC site.

Haywain · 7 Mar 2018

It is not a quota but that the booking engine cannot apply two discounts to the ticket. What you would be buying is a SSS with a 50% discount as the SSH tickets cannot currently be sold.

Gerald Fiennes · 7 Mar 2018

Wallsendmag said:
SSU or SSH aren’t available on the VTEC site.

So where are they available: at stations?

Wallsendmag · 7 Mar 2018

Gerald Fiennes said:
So where are they available: at stations?

No the web functionality is coming in phase two

Gerald Fiennes · 7 Mar 2018

OK, is this not highly misleading? They offer a railcard which gives 1/3rd discounts offpeak and then create a fare which says that it can be discounted with such a railcard but can't actually be in practice? This feels like a new low, even by UK rail standards....

Starmill · 7 Mar 2018

What I think wallsendmag is trying to say is that VTEC launced a new site some 6 months ago which removed the ability to purchase these tickets.
VTEC have yet to correct their mistake. The ticket cannot be bought.

This demonstrates how much VTEC value your custom. Perhaps you could consider Megabus?

yorkie · 7 Mar 2018

What train are you looking at?

Gerald Fiennes said:
Any thoughts on this one? I'm trying to book a 'Saver Half Single", ie. an SSU or SSH, from LDS to KGX this Sunday for £54.50 but the system refuses to offer a railcard discount for this. It does offer a railcard discount on the ADV fares, however. I get that these fares are only sold via the website but is this some weird pricing system that sets quotas for railcard reductions as distinct from the base tickets coming into effect?. The rules on the VTEC website and on BRFares.com say that these fares are eligible for railcard discounts. Is this a system thing (I tried the AGA and the TPE websites and got the same problem thought), a deliberate policy to confuse everyone even further or a SNAFU?!!!

See this answer, which was provided for a similar query with arguably the same underlying problem:

alistairlees said:
There are really two problems here:

1. the fares data structure does not support the 'correct' retailing of SVH (or SSH, or SSU) products; or, for that matter, the 'correct' retailing of child flat fare products (mostly TKR, TKS and TKT products, but now additionally including CFF and CFS, and probably more)
2. the additional work to implement these products in the TIS (i.e. to overcome the inadequacies of the fares data structure) has not been done (or not been done correctly)

Point no 1 is really a TOC / RDG thing: no pricing manager should be creating products that can't be supported by the fares data structure. Either the fares data structure should be amended, or the products should not be created. For the record, the issue is that there is nothing in the fares data structure to force one product to only be retailed together with another (different) product. Products are essentially independent - hence the issue.

Point no 2 is Vix's fault - they should be quite capable of resolving this (i.e. creating a set of rules embedded in their TIS to overcome the inadequacies of the fares data structure, and this retail the product correctly.)

As a general principle I don't think TOCs should expect or be able to create any product with new product rules not supported by the fares feed data structure, and just expect this to be supported by TIS - there is cost to implementing and supporting these things and it is, in any case, a poor way to manage data and architecture....

Gerald Fiennes · 8 Mar 2018

Thanks, I see what Alastair is getting at. I'm still left with a pretty severe 'truth in advertising' issue, however.

But does this mean that the data/VIX issues also preclude selling these fares at stations? I will ask today at LDS and see what happens....!!!

Haywain · 8 Mar 2018

Gerald Fiennes said:
Thanks, I see what Alastair is getting at. I'm still left with a pretty severe 'truth in advertising' issue, however.

But does this mean that the data/VIX issues also preclude selling these fares at stations? I will ask today at LDS and see what happens....!!!

They are online only...

Deerfold · 8 Mar 2018

Wallsendmag said:
No the web functionality is coming in phase two

Do you know when phase 2 is due?

Starmill · 8 Mar 2018

Gerald Fiennes said:
But does this mean that the data/VIX issues also preclude selling these fares at stations? I will ask today at LDS and see what happens....!!!

I have already pointed out that the tickets are impossible to buy - and so have other people. I agree very much if your view is that this is unacceptable.

But what are you going to do about it? The government don't seem concerned. VTEC don't seem to care enough to fix it, they have had many many months to do so and they have failed. They chose to deactivate the old website, which did have this functionality, before fixing their new site. You can complain, but it will probably be a fruitless exercise, requiring the exchange of a great many emails before the person in customer relations even understands what you are talking about, let alone does anything about it. The only realistic weapon left in your arsenal if you are not happy is to not give VTEC your business.

strawbrick · 8 Mar 2018

If I understand this thread correctly, something which is being advertised as "for sale at price £X" cannot actually be bought and is therefore not actually for sale at price £X.
Doesn't the Advertising Standards Authority have something to say about that sort of thing?

westv · 8 Mar 2018

Deerfold said:
Do you know when phase 2 is due?

Can I guess at Christmas time?

Haywain · 8 Mar 2018

strawbrick said:
If I understand this thread correctly, something which is being advertised as "for sale at price £X" cannot actually be bought and is therefore not actually for sale at price £X.
Doesn't the Advertising Standards Authority have something to say about that sort of thing?

Where is this being advertised?

Deerfold · 8 Mar 2018

Haywain said:
Where is this being advertised?

Here:

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/special-offers/travel-savings/off-peak-train-tickets/#tab_1

If you like savings and staying flexible, you can now have the best of both worlds with our Super Off-Peak Single. It gives you a tidy saving by being exactly half the price of a Super Off-Peak Return, whilst also letting you decide when you want to travel.

(I found this by navigating through the website, not through google).

Gerald Fiennes · 9 Mar 2018

Thanks, I've taken your advice and have booked another way (albeit still Virgin!!) ORR were quite hot on this kind of issue a few years ago so, even though I realise that the TOC and TF aren't going to do much I will raise it formally through those routes and then to ORR under consumer protection legislation. Should I find anything of interest, I'll let you know.

Haywain · 9 Mar 2018

Deerfold said:
Here:
https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/special-offers/travel-savings/off-peak-train-tickets/#tab_1
(I found this by navigating through the website, not through google).

And it is sold at exactly half the price of a Super Off Peak Single (albeit without a Railcard discount) so is actually cheaper than indicated there.

Deerfold · 9 Mar 2018

Haywain said:
And it is sold at exactly half the price of a Super Off Peak Single (albeit without a Railcard discount) so is actually cheaper than indicated there.

Although they also say:

If you really want to beef up your savings, you can even use a Railcard when you buy it too.

Haywain · 9 Mar 2018

Deerfold said:
Although they also say:

In which case it's a fair cop, and they need to amend that to say it doesn't get a railcard discount.

alistairlees · 9 Mar 2018

Haywain said:
And it is sold at exactly half the price of a Super Off Peak Single (albeit without a Railcard discount) so is actually cheaper than indicated there.

But it's still being sold at the wrong price. They should sell it at the correct price.

Wallsendmag · 9 Mar 2018

Haywain said:
In which case it's a fair cop, and they need to amend that to say it doesn't get a railcard discount.

It has been updated.

Haywain · 9 Mar 2018

Wallsendmag said:
It has been updated.

Good work!

Merseysider · 9 Mar 2018

VTEC said:
If you really want to beef up your savings...

Yet more cringeworthy drivel :lol:

More fun with VTEC's website

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