More Gatwick Express Woes

[feline1]

Most Civil Servants who deal with these matters are lowly paid Clerical Officers who probably went to the local comprehensive school, and can only just afford to live. Perhaps you need to drop the vitriol from your postings and do some research about things.

And I'm still trying to understand the relevance of the last 2 paragraphs!!

I really doubt the multimillion GoviaTL contract was decided by a junior clerical officer! Something high profile like that will have gone all the way to the Minister.

In the last two paragraphs I was replying to Yorkie, discussing the best route for complaints, as other less hostile posters seemed to understand perfectly

The Advertising Standards Authority considers a company's website to be one big advertisement and will be happy to consider that type of complaint.

Yes, but they will be considering whether the company itself should be allowed to make that kind of advertisement, and may fine the company if they deem it breaks the rules.
They'd be less interested in how an individual sale made by the company violated any rights of an individual consumer - Trading Standards would more typically pursue such things, and see the consumer is recompensed.

Alternatively, the Dept of Transport's "Passenger Focus" watchdog can act as an ombudsman when a TOC's own complaint's process has bourne no fruit.

But hey, shop 'em to all three, I say!

 

[Philip C]

I lament the loss of the trolley on Gatwick Express, whilst understanding the large range of catering outlets at both Victoria and Gatwick Airport.

However I doubt that the proportion of users who have the skill to carry hot drinks between outlet and train, whilst persuading large amounts of baggage to negotiate crowded stations, escalators, barrier lines etc., is quite as high as some posters appear to believe! I do admit to being a very infrequent user of these trains.

 

[Llanigraham]

I really doubt the multimillion GoviaTL contract was decided by a junior clerical officer! Something high profile like that will have gone all the way to the Minister.

In the last two paragraphs I was replying to Yorkie, discussing the best route for complaints, as other less hostile posters seemed to understand perfectly

Nearly all the initial work on these sorts of contracts are done by lowly paid Civil Servants. It is they who do the research and the initial drafting. It is then passed up the chain for more senior officers to deal with it. If you knew anything about this you would also know that the Minister does very little actual work on it, and is invariably led by his Permanent Secretary, who has been advised by those below him. The Minister is really nothing more than a figurehead.

And very few Civil Servants get chauffeur driven cars!!

How do I know this? I have friends who are very senior Civil Servants in various Government Departments, in London and elsewhere. Just because I am an ex-railway worker does not mean I don't know how the "system" works!

Still facts get in the way of a rant, don't they!!

 

[bnm]

Whilst I am in favour of onboard refreshments for long distance services, I see no reason at all to have trolleys on a journey of 30 mins running between two locations with a huge range of catering outlets on site at both ends.

Which ones of those outlets offer complimentary beverages and nibbles? Thats what's been removed from GatEx 1st Class.

 

[deltic]

Nearly all the initial work on these sorts of contracts are done by lowly paid Civil Servants. It is they who do the research and the initial drafting. It is then passed up the chain for more senior officers to deal with it. If you knew anything about this you would also know that the Minister does very little actual work on it, and is invariably led by his Permanent Secretary, who has been advised by those below him. The Minister is really nothing more than a figurehead.

Depends on how you define lowly paid but the civil servants dealing with rail franchising are very well paid compared to their colleagues doing non-rail franchise work with bonus payments of around £25k on top of base salaries. see for example http://railcareers.penna.com/opportunities.php

Of course those in the private sector on the other side of the table are paid even more

 

[feline1]

If you knew anything about this you would also know that the Minister does very little actual work on it, and is invariably led by his Permanent Secretary, who has been advised by those below him.

Yes I have seen "Yes Minister", thank you. I have the entire series on DVD

You seem to think UK rail franchises are awarded transparently on objective merit. That's a point of view But it's not a point of view that anyone typing "west coast mainline franchise fiasco" into Google is likely to arrive at...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=west+coast+mainline+franchise+fiasco

 

[sheff1]

Which ones of those outlets offer complimentary beverages and nibbles?

Complimentary refreshments are not guaranteed to be available on trains even when scheduled (see various other threads). For the £10 extra a First Class ticket costs you could get something a bit more substantial than "nibbles", even at railway station/airport prices. It is not a hardship to go without refreshments (complimentary or otherwise) on a 30 minute journey.

 

[berneyarms]

You do get an extra perk by booking a 1st Class anytime return ticket online, which is the use of the airport lounge after security which has free drink and food.

You would want to for £56!!

 

[trainmania100]

I rarely see "A trolley service of drinks and light refreshments" on trains on the BML now...
But you should make the most of it in those luxurious 442 seats before the electrostars take over

 

[bnm]

I rarely see "A trolley service of drinks and light refreshments" on trains on the BML now...

Good reason for that. GTR have stopped all catering across all their brands.

 

[trainmania100]

Good reason for that. GTR have stopped all catering across all their brands.

Thatll be why then :P
Thanks

 

[feline1]

I think part of the rationale had to be that, when the "Gatwick" Express was extended to Brighton, it became a commuter train, with standing room only - so at peak times it was impossible to wheel a trolley up the aisles.
It was very unfair on the poor trolley staff as I'd often watch them try to board trains with their trolleys (on Thameslink and Southern services too) with the vestibule full of standing commuters, and people understandably getting a bit "are you having a laff, mate? how on earth do you expect to fit that on here?" with them... but the poor staff appeared to be under some kinda contract where they had to get a train home, with their trolley! And so if trains were too full, they couldn't go home.

 

[antharro]

But you should make the most of it in those luxurious 442 seats before the electrostars take over

Luxurious? 442s haven't been luxurious since Southern "refubished" them. I know they have HST style seats in first class but they're nowhere near as comfortable as FGW had in their HSTs. (I reserve judgement on the GwR refurbished HSTs). Still, I suppose in comparison with the incoming Electostars they are more comfortable...

 

[rmt4ever]

Comments above thanks all..

Yes it was the fact it was something advertised that didn't materialise. And exactly what someone mentioned. We had suitcases and carry on bags so didn't fancy carrying hot drinks and more stuff onto the train. Would have just liked something served at the seat. Half hour is long enough to warrant that I believe.

Yes we booked online so we're entitled to the extra "perk" of the No1 lounge. But as travelling Business class with BA anyway, that was of no advantage. BA are actually using the No1 lounge themselves as theirs is closed currently. The No1 lounge is very poor in comparison to the BA terraces lounge that it replaced btw (but this is off topic).

 

[ExRes]

Comments above thanks all..

Yes it was the fact it was something advertised that didn't materialise. And exactly what someone mentioned. We had suitcases and carry on bags so didn't fancy carrying hot drinks and more stuff onto the train. Would have just liked something served at the seat. Half hour is long enough to warrant that I believe.

Yes we booked online so we're entitled to the extra "perk" of the No1 lounge. But as travelling Business class with BA anyway, that was of no advantage. BA are actually using the No1 lounge themselves as theirs is closed currently. The No1 lounge is very poor in comparison to the BA terraces lounge that it replaced btw (but this is off topic).

Not an argument at all but I really don't see that half an hour is long enough to warrant anything, if it was though, just how many on train staff would you anticipate employing so that, at a minimum, 5 coaches of passengers could be served giving them enough time to drink their hot drink so as to avoid carrying it off the train at either Victoria or Gatwick?

 

[FenMan]

Not an argument at all but I really don't see that half an hour is long enough to warrant anything, if it was though, just how many on train staff would you anticipate employing so that, at a minimum, 5 coaches of passengers could be served giving them enough time to drink their hot drink so as to avoid carrying it off the train at either Victoria or Gatwick?

Irrelevant. The TOC/brand made the choice to beef up its offer in order to attract a greater share of revenue from the Gatwick/London flow. That the TOC/brand concerned now has no intention whatsoever of fulfilling their expanded offer, despite continuing to advertise it, is cause for concern.

 

[berneyarms]

As I pointed out above - they have removed the reference to food and drink on the main first class page on their website.

I'd imagine this reference in the FAQs section was left in by oversight rather than anything else.

 

[feline1]

Irrelevant. The TOC/brand made the choice to beef up its offer in order to attract a greater share of revenue from the Gatwick/London flow. That the TOC/brand concerned now has no intention whatsoever of fulfilling their expanded offer, despite continuing to advertise it, is cause for concern.

Well, "Gatwick Express - get to Gatwick 3 whole minutes quicker than every other train cos we don't stop at East Croydon or Clapham Junction" doesn't really have that same ring to it.
Nor does "our special carriages have really small narrow doors a foot off the platform, that make lugging a suitcase in and out a real nusiance"

 

[gimmea50anyday]

No wonder Gatwick Express is such a woeful service. Its importance has been somewhat diminished since Intercity days and the demise of the darth vaders. While understanding the mainline capacity issues, it has unfortunately come at a cost to the dedicated service which is now just a shadow of its former self. And yet the heathrow service and related infrastructure continues to grow in comparison.

 

[talldave]

Well, "Gatwick Express - get to Gatwick 3 whole minutes quicker than every other train cos we don't stop at East Croydon or Clapham Junction" doesn't really have that same ring to it.
Nor does "our special carriages have really small narrow doors a foot off the platform, that make lugging a suitcase in and out a real nusiance"

Or "some of the fastest trains between London Victoria and Gatwick airport are Southern services.."

 

[talltim]

Not an argument at all but I really don't see that half an hour is long enough to warrant anything, if it was though, just how many on train staff would you anticipate employing so that, at a minimum, 5 coaches of passengers could be served giving them enough time to drink their hot drink so as to avoid carrying it off the train at either Victoria or Gatwick?

They have 5 coaches of 1st class on the Gatwick Express ?:roll:

 

[sheff1]

They have 5 coaches of 1st class on the Gatwick Express ?

Well it is a "Premium Service"

 

[feline1]

They have 5 coaches of 1st class on the Gatwick Express ?:roll:

The usually have two *half* carriages of first class.

The one thing I'll say for the Gatwick Express first class carriages is that they do indeed have big comfy seats with lots of room, unlike the ridiculous Southern first class, (which are just the same as the other seats in the rest of the carriage, only with the little white cloth as a head rest. Perhaps to stop you catching nits from the plebs )

If I wanted to sit in these on my daily commute from Brighton, my monthly season would cost £750 instead of £500

 

[ExRes]

They have 5 coaches of 1st class on the Gatwick Express ?:roll:

Who said anything about 5 first class coaches?, the trolley service provided by Gatwick Express was for the entire train, try reading the post before making comments

 

[al78]

No wonder Gatwick Express is such a woeful service. Its importance has been somewhat diminished since Intercity days and the demise of the darth vaders. While understanding the mainline capacity issues, it has unfortunately come at a cost to the dedicated service which is now just a shadow of its former self.

What did the service used to be like compared with how it is today?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What did the service used to be like compared with how it is today?

Very spacious Mk2 stock; always very clean - plenty of luggage space. Comfortable seats.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

What did the service used to be like compared with how it is today?

Under Intercity days a 73 and a 2-HAP DMC converted into a luggage van t&t a rake of 5, 7 or 8 mk2's approx 1/3 first class. With a train always open for loading at both stations, departures every 15 minutes, airline check-in in and security checked at Victoria. NatEx kept it this way but introduced the darth vaders to replace the ageing 73's and mk2's but the BML route utilisation review basically put paid to the shuttle concept by extending the GatEx to brighton and merging the service into the TSGN super franchise. Now instead of having over 20 minutes before departure to load luggage and board, theres now just a 2 minutes dwell time, no different to a southern or thameslink service stopping there, and theres no longer the "premium" Service the dedicated train offered.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

When the purley accident happened and services were diverted via Horsham. I spent a day bashing the IVGA stock just to get the unusual route mileage up. With a load 5 the 73's used to shift but still put in a reasonable performance with load 8 on. 1600hp from the 73' plus the 500hp from the GLV on a load 5 performance was better than a REP+1 TC! (A REP with 2xTC performed far more similar to a 12xCIG/CEP/VEP formation, a REP alone shifted shovels!)

 

[Mojo]

What did the service used to be like compared with how it is today?

Have a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FJP8QgNbZ4

Despite the claims that everything will be remaining the same, most things are now not the same as that video.

 

[yorkie]

What did the service used to be like compared with how it is today?

There is a BBC News article (featuring a forum member named after a popular song of that year ) mentioning the withdrawal of the Mk2 stock, their replacement was the "Darth Vader" Class 460s, which have since become part of SWT's Class 458 fleet.