More police misbehaviour: are they trying to deliberately wind the public up?

[RuralRambler]

I was a special constable for a couple of years back in the 80s. Police choosing which laws they want to enforce and throwing their weight around is nothing new, it was happening back then too. I remember on particularly awful PC I worked with on an evening shift. He was an obnoxious bully. We were driving along and saw a couple of old women in the middle of a busy road. The PC pulled in and I thought he was going to stop the traffic to let them across - no, instead he gave them an expletive laden verbal bashing and left them there! On a night shift with another PC, we were walking through a "rough" part of time when we heard broken glass, I assumed we'd head towards the sound to see what was happening, but the PC turned turned around and walked quickly away saying he didn't want to get involved and wanted to be far enough away if a call came through that someone else would get there first. It was cases like that which caused me to leave as I couldn't do with their double standards and laziness.

 

[brad465]

Anti-lockdown protests are getting press coverage today, including a group of 60+ MPs calling for Priti Patel to allow protesting in lockdown:

Anti-lockdown demonstrations are under way in central London, as MPs urge the government to change the law to allow peaceful protest.

Hundreds of people marched from Hyde Park to Westminster, with some detained by police.

Earlier, more than 60 MPs and peers wrote to the home secretary calling for laws to be changed.

The Home Office said it was still illegal for people to attend protests under the current coronavirus rules.

The Metropolitan Police warned of a "significant policing operation" throughout Saturday - with enforcement including fixed penalty notices and arrests.

BBC correspondent Marianna Spring, reporting from the anti-lockdown protests, said the atmosphere was "animated" - with a number of people promoting conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

Others appeared to be angry about restrictions on peaceful protest, she said, adding that the largest demonstration had been renamed a "vigil for the voiceless".

She added that those attending the largest demonstration in the capital appeared to be organising their movements through encrypted online channels, leaving police officers to play "catch-up".

 

[PHILIPE]

Anti-lockdown protests are getting press coverage today, including a group of 60+ MPs calling for Priti Patel to allow protesting in lockdown:

It seems that every time there is an excuse to hold a protest then these COVIDIOTS seize it.

 

[initiation]

It seems that every time there is an excuse to hold a protest then these COVIDIOTS seize it.

What even is an 'excuse' to hold a protest? Are protests only allowed when PHILIPE judges that there is a valid reason? In my book anyone should be able to protest (but obviously not cause damage/riot etc...) whatever their cause. I might disagree with what they are saying but it is a key sign of a free democracy that people can hold public protest.

Secondly, can you highlight even one instance where large outdoor gatherings have lead to any noticable spike in infections. BLM protests? Bournemouth beaches? Superbowl celebrations in parts of the US? I mean if they are covidiots it should be easy to spot this right?

 

[PHILIPE]

What even is an 'excuse' to hold a protest? Are protests only allowed when PHILIPE judges that there is a valid reason? In my book anyone should be able to protest (but obviously not cause damage/riot etc...) whatever their cause. I might disagree with what they are saying but it is a key sign of a free democracy that people can hold public protest.

Secondly, can you highlight even one instance where large outdoor gatherings have lead to any noticable spike in infections. BLM protests? Bournemouth beaches? Superbowl celebrations in parts of the US? I mean if they are covidiots it should be easy to spot this right?

Trying to ban protests has become a reason to hold another protest to protest at that. As they are in the open air they don't seem to be COVID spreaders but there is always the potential there.

 

[DB]

Trying to ban protests has become a reason to hold another protest to protest at that.

And why shouldn't it be?

As they are in the open air they don't seem to be COVID spreaders but there is always the potential there.

Fotunately many people are very much opposed to this sort of authoritarian mindset.

 

[greyman42]

Perhaps the Police officers did not want to pick on someone their own size?

You would be forgiven for thinking that when you look at the differing response of the police at the Rangers celebrations in Glasgow and the police at Clapham Common.

 

[nedchester]

You would be forgiven for thinking that when you look at the differing response of the police at the Rangers celebrations in Glasgow and the police at Clapham Common.

Four people were arrested at Clapham Common that is all.

 

[Bullfield WEst]

How many were charged?

 

[nedchester]

How many were charged?

Again four FPNs were issued as far as I know. The pictures that feature (mainly the same woman) are them resisting arrest.

 

[david1212]

Looking into the UK section of Skyline webcams this morning I saw a new camera has been added at Hawes, North Yorkshire.

I saw a police vehicle parked and either a constable or PCSO talking to a cyclist at length. Two other cyclists appeared. The police 'person' broke off the conversation, walked out into the road and stopped them. The conversation was brief and the cyclists continued.

While any of the cyclists could have been in breach of the guidelines even after allowing for their fuzziness to my interpretation they can not have been breaking the law.

 

[yorkie]

It seems that every time there is an excuse to hold a protest then these COVIDIOTS seize it.

I don't even know where to start with this...

..., they actually stopped my son and his 7 flatmates and told them it was illegal to be out in a group of more than 6. No amount of telling them that they lived together and were a "bubble" made a difference....

It's scary how I, as a layperson, can be so much more knowledgeable about the law than the police. It really dents my confidence in the police.

Yes it’s been going on before Covid but the police have been involved since the stay at home started in January.

I’m expecting there to be a gathering on photographers (6 per group) at Acton Bridge from March 29th! The police can’t do anything then.

True.

A gathering of one household or 2 people from different households or one household + individual bubbling would be permitted now; a gathering of 6 people would be permitted from 29th March.

In theory there could be multiple gatherings spaced out along each platforms, providing each individual gathering was no more than 6 (or one household, whichever is the greater) in number, the police couldn't do anything. I'd not put it past them trying though, as my confidence in the police is at an all-time low.

Pensioner given Covid breach warning over socially-distanced cup of tea | ITV News

A pensioner has been given a Covid breach warning by police after having a socially distanced cup of tea in her communal garden. | ITV News West Country

www.itv.com

If this is true, then it’s just ridiculous. I’d be very annoyed if police knocked on my door at that time of night and to do it to an elderly lady for anything other than an emergency is a disgrace.

it's pleasing to see glos_police have taken a huge battering on Twitter over this.

A small selection follows:

https://twitter.com/KimGlover16/status/1373234609228513280

Absolutely outrageous! If you had done this to my mum, I cannot even begin to contemplate the hell I would have unleashed..
The complainant should also be thoroughly ashamed of them

https://twitter.com/NJWesthead/status/1373212517418287109

You should be absolutely ashamed

https://twitter.com/NicolaJCall/status/1373046687652974596

SERIOUSLY?????It doesn't matter what time you went. YOU SHOULD LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE. A cup of tea? For God's sake!!! This is fascism. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am horrified at what is happening in my country.

The police seem determined to lose the trust and respect of the public.

 

[sheff1]

Trying to ban protests has become a reason to hold another protest to protest at that.

Sounds like the best possible reason to hold a protest.

Anyone should be free to protest peacefully about whatever they wish.

 

[Bantamzen]

It seems that every time there is an excuse to hold a protest then these COVIDIOTS seize it.

Absolutely, covidiots going around protesting because their masters have decided that they can no longer protest. Tsk, don't they understand that they must obey their masters no matter what? Ungrateful peasants, they'll be wanting the vote next....

Trying to ban protests has become a reason to hold another protest to protest at that. As they are in the open air they don't seem to be COVID spreaders but there is always the potential there.

Here's the thing. Any interaction between living creatures has the potential to spread a virus. That is our reality. We could of course stop it spreading between humans, but that would involve zero contact between any of us ever again. That means no more meeting up with family, friends, lovers. That also means no going shopping, going on holiday, talking walks outside. It also means no healthcare, because after all if we fall ill someone has to get close, and that is an unacceptable risk of spread right?

Hopefully by now you have realised that I am being very sarcastic, and equally how ridiculous your first quote really is.

 

[E100]

Quite late to the thread but was pretty appalled at the scenes widely shown from the perspective of the police being heavy handed and showing little compassion to many who have no doubt been failed by either police directly or the criminal justice system.

On the subject of lockdown vs protest. Whilst having maintained goodwill for some degree of lockdown that is now sharply waining and this is a further catalyst. There are unfortunately many human rights that have been trampled but the right to protest feels particularly acute due to the strong link to freedom and democracy that many loved ones have fought and died to protect. The introduction of legislation was understandably rushed, however there is no excuse for this not to have been amended to allow for protest by now.

 

[greyman42]

It's scary how I, as a layperson, can be so much more knowledgeable about the law than the police. It really dents my confidence in the police.

It seems to me that the majority of forum members are more knowledgeable regarding the law than a lot of police officers, which reflects very badly on the police.

 

[A Challenge]

It seems to me that the majority of forum members are more knowledgeable regarding the law than a lot of police officers, which reflects very badly on the police.

The thing is that people like me (at least for the first lockdown, haven't actually read the text since) and @yorkie (and others on the forum) have actually read the legal restrictions, whereas the police have generally read the guidelines, which in some cases seems to include things that are merely part of the guidance the government gives, not the law.

 

[the sniper]

It's scary how I, as a layperson, can be so much more knowledgeable about the law than the police. It really dents my confidence in the police.

To be fair, this is very much your area of speciality. Going by this section of the forum, l imagine you've spent more hours discussing/analysing/critiquing this subject than some PCs have been at work entirely over the last year! Enforcing Covid laws is very little of what most PCs do...

There are 150k Police Officers in the UK. Those most predisposed to generalising 'the police' are often the same people who'd fight tooth and nail objecting against the generalisation of other large groups behaviour...

 

[yorkie]

To be fair, this is very much your area of speciality. Going by this section of the forum, l imagine you've spent more hours discussing/analysing/critiquing this subject than some PCs have been at work entirely over the last year! Enforcing Covid laws is very little of what most PCs do...

If your job is to uphold the law, and you do not know what the law is, you can't just make something up. So I don't buy that.

If it takes too long to read the relevant law for the police to be able to read it, then the rule cannot be enforced, it's as simple as that.

There are 150k Police Officers in the UK. Those most predisposed to generalising 'the police' are often the same people who'd fight tooth and nail objecting against the generalisation of other large groups behaviour...

I really don't think I need to go round qualifying my statements by saying "some police officers" or "some police forces" all the time.

In any case, I don't see how you can deny that the problem is endemic and affects multiple police forces.

 

[the sniper]

If your job is to uphold the law, and you do not know what the law is, you can't just make something up. So I don't buy that.

If it takes too long to read the relevant law for the police to be able to read it, then the rule cannot be enforced, it's as simple as that.

There's a reason Lawyers are paid far more than Police Officers, for far less risk/grief...

I really don't think I need to go round qualifying my statements by saying "some police officers" or "some police forces" all the time.

I appreciate it's inconvenient.

 

[DB]

There's a reason Lawyers are paid far more than Police Officers, for far less risk/grief...

All each individual force needs to do is prepare a summary for all its officers stating what the law actually is (as opposed to the guidance), and get them to formally confirm that they've read it - really not difficult.

In order to uphold the law the police need to know what the law actually is!

 

[RuralRambler]

It's a very comparable scenario to HMRC tax staff. Any practising accountant will tell you that there are many instances on their website and in their guidance notes where their "advice" isn't what the tax legislation actually says. In the old days, when tax inspectors were generally more experienced and better trained, they'd know what the law said. Nowadays, as HMRC has been dumbed down to call centre level, the customer service staff are often poorly trained and some really don't have the ability to read the legislation for themselves, so just rely on their guidance notes and webpages.

I'd say similar of the police. Back in the 60s, your average constable had to know the law. Their role was broader as even your humble "beat bobby" would have to deal with things like firearms registrations/checking, motoring/traffic laws, etc., as well as the basics of burglary, drunkenness etc. I remember my grandfather (a life long village constable) reading law books. He wasn't "spoon fed" with summaries, guidance notes, crib sheets etc like they are today - he had to be able to read an Act of Parliament, understand it and enforce it - and like I say, that was constable level!

 

[Busaholic]

I was a special constable for a couple of years back in the 80s. Police choosing which laws they want to enforce and throwing their weight around is nothing new, it was happening back then too. I remember on particularly awful PC I worked with on an evening shift. He was an obnoxious bully. We were driving along and saw a couple of old women in the middle of a busy road. The PC pulled in and I thought he was going to stop the traffic to let them across - no, instead he gave them an expletive laden verbal bashing and left them there! On a night shift with another PC, we were walking through a "rough" part of time when we heard broken glass, I assumed we'd head towards the sound to see what was happening, but the PC turned turned around and walked quickly away saying he didn't want to get involved and wanted to be far enough away if a call came through that someone else would get there first. It was cases like that which caused me to leave as I couldn't do with their double standards and laziness.

Your experience tallies with the only time I made an Official Complaint about the behaviour of an individual officer, because I was so outraged. This was in the late 1990s, before I had a mobile phone and (crucially) before CCTV had come to my town centre.
It was a Saturday night, I was watching rather a good film on TV in the flat above the shop I ran ; next door is a rather well-known Grade 1 listed building, the ground floor of which is rented out as a shop. I heard smashing glass and shouting (at the time both particularly prevalent at the weekend) and knew instantly it was one of next door's windows. I went downstairs, to see a group of three or four 40ish large, white male yobs, one of whom had his hand and bottom of shirt covered in blood. They made their loutish, drunken way up the street and I followed them. They stopped on a corner, round which were two phone boxes, and they were preoccupied enough not to notice me going into one to phone 999. I was telling the police operator what had happened when I saw a police car approaching: I aborted the phone call, saying it was going to be dealt with. The yobs had begun to move on, but were still in sight: I waved the police car down to see it occupied by male PC in his 30s plus Special Constable in her late 50s whom I knew worked in a building society. i explained the situation, pointed out the man with the bloodied shirt, still in full view, and the car drove up to him, slowed to peer at him for a second, then drove on normally (it had not been responding to a 999 call, just driving around as was common then.)
To cut a long story short, I'd been having my own issues with an unsavoury character who had both smashed my windows and physically attacked me, and I had the phone no of the Inspector in charge of the local police station. On the Monday following I spoke to him and he insisted I go through the complaints system, which had an even worse reputation than the current one. This started a process which involved statements to a police sergeant from another police station whose full-time job, apparently, was to 'deal' with such complaints, followed by phone calls from him to me querying aspects of it, and (after about two weeks) a letter informing me that my complaint had been rejected 'because the Special Constable had confirmed the denial of the PC driver that they had failed to question the suspect.' So they preferred to believe that I, a disinterested person, was lying. From that moment, my contempt for our local police force has grown the more I see them in action or ( more likely) when their inaction ensures acts of criminal damage, burglary or violent assault go uninvestigated and, therefore, unpunished. Oh, and the Special apparently resigned (I've no idea why!) and all these years on I've never seen another Special on the streets or in a car here despite 'shortages' of police officers.

 

[brad465]

I think we're starting to see the consequences of deepening dislike of the police:

Bristol protest: Police attacked as 'Kill the Bill' demo turns violent

Officers suffer broken bones in scenes the home secretary calls "unacceptable".

www.bbc.co.uk

Protesters have clashed with police after thousands of people turned up to a demonstration officers had "strongly advised" against attending.

Officers suffered suspected broken bones as angry scenes unfolded in Bristol city centre.

Crowds had gathered for the Kill the Bill demonstration in opposition to the Police and Crime Bill.

Demonstrators scaled a police station, threw fireworks into the crowd and daubed graffiti on the walls.

image captionA protester smashes the window of Bridewell Police Station

At least one police van was set on fire, with others smashed up and their tyres let down as the crowd chanted "shame on you".
Police said perpetrators would be "identified and brought to justice".
It is not clear if any arrests have been made and a spokesman for Avon and Somerset Police described it as a "rapidly-developing situation".

It's quite clear the protesters had it out against the police specifically here, and has seen police sustain injuries and have at least one of their vans was set alight.

 

[duncanp]

People on these forums have been predicting civil unrest, as distinct from civil disobedience, for some time.

There could be copycat protests against this bill in other cities, and some people may join these protests not because they have a problem with the bill, but because they are sick and tired of all the restrictions, and the often heavy handed behaviour of the police.

This was going to happen sooner or later, just like the riots in 1981, and in the summer of 2011. It just takes one incident to set things off, and the handling of the demonstration on Clapham Common last weekend didn't help matters either.

 

[takno]

People on these forums have been predicting civil unrest, as distinct from civil disobedience, for some time.

There could be copycat protests against this bill in other cities, and some people may join these protests not because they have a problem with the bill, but because they are sick and tired of all the restrictions, and the often heavy handed behaviour of the police.

This was going to happen sooner or later, just like the riots in 1981, and in the summer of 2011. It just takes one incident to set things off, and the handling of the demonstration on Clapham Common last weekend didn't help matters either.

Edinburgh buses are getting regularly bricked at the moment, and Rangers fans all over the place have been kicking off. There have also been a fair few anti-lockdown protests around the place. I think at this point we're probably heading for a long and very unpleasant summer, even if all restrictions are lifted on a fairly aggressive schedule. We've created a monster and encouraged it to wear a mask.

 

[the sniper]

Well, as we've seen on here, there are plenty of people willing to fan the flames of discontent on the internet. And as we've seen in Bristol tonight, there are some people nutty enough to take it to heart and think they're achieving something by acting on the rhetoric. Nobody wins.

 

[duncanp]

Edinburgh buses are getting regularly bricked at the moment, and Rangers fans all over the place have been kicking off. There have also been a fair few anti-lockdown protests around the place. I think at this point we're probably heading for a long and very unpleasant summer, even if all restrictions are lifted on a fairly aggressive schedule. We've created a monster and encouraged it to wear a mask.

Yes, I did see that Lothian Buses in Edinburgh withdrew all services after 7:30pm on one day last week. This is nothing new for Edinburgh and was happening in the 1980s when I lived there.

If people are confined to the UK because travel abroad is difficult or not allowed, then everywhere that people want to go is going to be crowded, with people who are thoroughly cheesed off, and maybe worried about their futures with furlough winding down.

Seaside resorts such as Blackpool and city centres could become a flashpoint, with people who have nothing to do but get sloshed because they have no hope and no future.

Other flashpoints could occur when crowds return to football stadiums at the start of the new season.

If restrictions are not lifted fully in England on 21st June, with the rest of the UK following shortly afterwards, it could be the last straw for many people.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Seems to have all kicked off in Bristol tonight...

Footage shows police van in flames as officers left injured at Bristol protests

Two police officers were taken to hospital with broken bones suffered during violent clashes as a 'Kill the Bill' protest in Bristol descended into chaos

www.mirror.co.uk

Thousands of demonstrators rallied against plans to give the police more powers to deal with non-violent protests.

But there were clashes in the street and scenes of anarchy as 'Kill the Bill' protesters tried to storm Bridewell Police Station and then set fire to a police van and celebrated.

Police said missiles had been thrown at them, including fireworks, and the head of the Bristol officers' union said about half a dozen were injured.

 

[Class 33]

People on these forums have been predicting civil unrest, as distinct from civil disobedience, for some time.

There could be copycat protests against this bill in other cities, and some people may join these protests not because they have a problem with the bill, but because they are sick and tired of all the restrictions, and the often heavy handed behaviour of the police.

This was going to happen sooner or later, just like the riots in 1981, and in the summer of 2011. It just takes one incident to set things off, and the handling of the demonstration on Clapham Common last weekend didn't help matters either.

As someone who lives in Bristol, it's very disturbing and uncomfortable watching the footage on the news of the rioting going on there this evening. Seems to have quietened down within the last half hour, though I see it looks like it's beginning to kick off again right now with another police car torched. Also news that a number of police officers have suffered broken bones and been taken to hospital. Absolutely dreadful. And indeed I fear you are right, there may well be copycat protests/riots in cities across the UK within the coming days. There could well be a repeat of the dreadful riots of summer 2011 again.

2020 was a dreadful year. So is 2021 so far and could well continue for at least a few months yet. Absolutely dire decade so far. A dire decade to be living through.....