Most expensive fare issued on-board

[Mathieu]

Just saw from this twitter thread here that the passenger purchased the ticket on-board the train (obviously not allowed to use railcard discounts as there's a ticket office) and was charged a peak time fare during off-peak hours. Is there anywhere in the NRToCs that allow ToCs to do this?

https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1238433481186775041

why have I been charged 3 quid for a train ticket that I normally get for £1.90 always buy my tickets on the train and then today I’ve been charged more no signs in my station or trains to say this is a new rule and never been charged more on the train

Hi, where did you get on the train, Amy? ^CT

Springburn to Charing Cross

Thanks, we've got a booking office at Springburn and a ticket machine, Amy. You need to use one of them before boarding the train there. If you choose not to, you'd not be able to buy the off-peak fare. ^CT

Well your booking office person is Hardly ever at the desk and I’ve never seen any machines in the station platform or I would! I’ve also bought tickets on the train every week and got charged normal price 1.90 so why hasn’t this rule been advertised!

Hi Amy, there is signage at the station to make this clear. It'll look like this ^CT

 

[robbeech]

Yes. These are the rules set out in the National Rail Conditions of Travel which can be found <HERE>

Section 6.1 followed by section 9 (specifically 9.2.2) are the crucial parts here.

6.1
You must have a valid Ticket to travel before you board a train where there was the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:

6.1.1. At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or self-service Ticket machine in working order; and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for more information about Penalty Fares; ..........

9. TRAVELLING WITHOUT A VALID TICKET

9.1. Travelling without a valid Ticket (which includes, where relevant, any supporting documentation such as a Railcard), or being unable to present them when asked is a serious matter. Condition 6 sets out the only circumstances where you may board a train without a valid Ticket. If you believe that one of these circumstances applies to you, or that there is another reason that led to you travelling without a valid Ticket or being able to present one, then you should explain this to the member of Train Company staff who has asked to inspect your Ticket.

9.2. If you are unable to present a valid Ticket when asked and the conditions set out in Condition 6 do not apply, we are permitted in law to take one of the following measures:
9.2.1. To charge you a Penalty Fare on certain trains and stations (see Condition 10 below); or
9.2.2. To charge you the full undiscounted anytime single fare to a station directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms, or for a Ticket to a station other than one served by the train that you are on; or
9.2.3. To report you for prosecution.

(my bold)

 

[andrewkeith5]

Yep, always been the way - the full, undiscounted anytime fare if you've already had an opportunity to purchase.

 

[Mathieu]

Ah fair enough

Around those lines it’s rare to see people actually enforce these policies.

 

[Wallsendmag]

You have to remember if you just allow the normal fare to be purchased onboard where is the incentive to buy a ticket? It would end up as a pay when challenged railway.

 

[Intermodal]

Ah fair enough

Around those lines it’s rare to see people actually enforce these policies.

Try getting on any regional or intercity train in the majority of UK and asking for a discounted fare, you'll be told to pay up or give your details. Condition 6 of the NRCoT (which this rule is) is widely enforced across the network with some exceptions.

 

[hexagon789]

Ah fair enough

Around those lines it’s rare to see people actually enforce these policies.

I agree you rarely see it enforced on ScotRail too the point I think many people assume paying on board is fine. It has always been the case that you buy before you board wherever possible but signage to that effect only really seems to have become prominent since Abellio took over from First.

 

[Ianigsy]

You have to remember if you just allow the normal fare to be purchased onboard where is the incentive to buy a ticket? It would end up as a pay when challenged railway.

Not disagreeing, but the other side of that particular coin is that somebody making a single journey at peak times between two unstaffed stations has little to lose by taking their chances.

There seems to have been an unofficial boycott by some guards in West Yorkshire who objected to the penalty fare scheme, but I gathered from an overhead conversation the other week that management are now checking ticket machine data.

 

[Saperstein]

Holders of a Disabled Railcard are quite rightly exempt from the rule if their disability prevents them from accessing ticket facilities and so they are aloud to purchase their ticket on board or at their destination.

2.7. You must buy the Tickets before boarding the train unless:

2.7.1. there was no ticket office at the station at which you began the journey or if the ticket office was closed, and there was no working ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets; or

2.7.2. you have a disability which prevented you accessing ticket retailing facilities.

In these cases you will be able to use your Railcard to buy tickets on the train or at your destination.

https://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/