Most popular TOC/Depots for driving trains ?

[387star]

Another thread was getting on to the topic if what is the best work for train drivers with an ingrained assumption that LNER, Avanti, Crosscountry and Eurostar have the best work.

Southeastern, Soithwestern Railway and GTR have fewer drivers wanting to move to those companies unless location is a factor. Obviously trainees won't care so this debate is really for qualifieds.

Would you say some depots/TOCS are looked down upon as being lesser? At Southern for instance Selhurst has a very poor reputation due to intense metro work although staff turnover must also be high due to increased living costs.

Qualified drivers if you could move anywhere where would it be and why or are you happy with things as they are ?

 

[Stigy]

Another thread was getting on to the topic if what is the best work for train drivers with an ingrained assumption that LNER, Avanti, Crosscountry and Eurostar have the best work.

Southeastern, Soithwestern Railway and GTR have fewer drivers wanting to move to those companies unless location is a factor. Obviously trainees won't care so this debate is really for qualifieds.

Would you say some depots/TOCS are looked down upon as being lesser? At Southern for instance Selhurst has a very poor reputation due to intense metro work although staff turnover must also be high due to increased living costs.

Qualified drivers if you could move anywhere where would it be and why or are you happy with things as they are ?

I think from a trainee’s point of view, anywhere will do if it means getting that magical key . Once qualified and after a few years, from my point of view at least, I’d see how I’m doing and how the logistics of getting to and from a depot that isn’t on my town’s line of route is going.

For me, it would be balancing the location, with the salary largely (At present, GWR’s salary with the harmonisation is a lot better than SWR’s, although with SWR’s new deal, they will soon be much the same), although the traction would play a part I guess.

 

[387star]

Yes location must be critical and for some that is a massive factor with kids and a mortgage. Southern have a six month notice period which must be prohibitive. I guess the easiest route is internal and hopefully your TOC has an internal option that suits you. I know a driver who transferred from Norwood to barnham and for a short time to get his move in commuter from Chichester to Norwood to drive trains!

There are depressing stories of drivers getting their key and unable to return 'home due to safety incidents or the company not entertaining relocations . Once the novelty of the job wears off that must be hard especially if you are stuck in London with sky high prices .

 

[Cassy j]

I think from a trainee’s point of view, anywhere will do if it means getting that magical key . Once qualified and after a few years, from my point of view at least, I’d see how I’m doing and how the logistics of getting to and from a depot that isn’t on my town’s line of route is going.

For me, it would be balancing the location, with the salary largely (At present, GWR’s salary with the harmonisation is a lot better than SWR’s, although with SWR’s new deal, they will soon be much the same), although the traction would play a part I guess.

What is swr expected to get ?

 

[Crazyb]

I've done most work.

Intercity work, can be boring looking out the window day after day. I found the West Coast boring, not sure why, but found the East Coast more of a joy....Don't ask me why.
I can also guarantee that if there is a Fu@k up, you will be either on the wrong side of Rugby, or the wrong side of P'boro...lol

Eurostar...I'm not a driver there, but many drivers have moved from there over the years to other depots, and when you look at their pay, most big TOC's are catching them up. I think Avanti at Euston most probably earn more than Eurostar, followed by East Coast.

Freight...I spent most of my time at Freightliner Intermodal. I had a super roster with only 1 weeks of night in 13. Everyday was different, but has a box boy the pay was low. Freightliner Intermodal are still one of the lowest paid drivers on the network.

Some TOC's and I think X Country are one, some of their jobs start at 3am ish....No Thanks.

For me now, I moved back to a TOC...I'm not saying who, but I work within 20 mins of my house, my first turn in my link starts at 6am from May's timetable and my last turn gets in at Midnight, plus not much weekend work.

Saying that, if Freightliner paid me a wage into the late 60's, I would have stayed there!!!!!

I'm getting old, so now it's the balance of life, social life and living on top of my depot....Driving to Newcastle or Preston, nah thanks, the best times are gone now.

 

[Stigy]

What is swr expected to get ?

I think their deal is £72k over four years? But there maybe some “door” Work in there somewhere...but let’s not get in to that as I don’t understand the details and no doubt people will get cross

 

[Cassy j]

I think their deal is £72k over four years? But there maybe some “door” Work in there somewhere...but let’s not get in to that as I don’t understand the details and no doubt people will get cross

72k over four years ? So an extra 18k per year?

 

[Lewlew]

It's all very much a matter of opinion, some prefer the stopping services, some prefer the fast services. Me personally, I like having variety so a depot with lots of route knowledge and on a lesser scale, lots of different traction. GWR at Reading would be a good shout.

Pay isn't everything, I would rather be on less pay and live close to home than having a long commute.

I'm a qualified driver on the Underground so would have to join as a trainee though and difference in pay from my current salary to a trainee salary makes it very unattractive for me to leave at the moment.

 

[RailwayWannabe]

72k over four years ? So an extra 18k per year?

I took it to mean it will rise to 72k per annum, over the staggered course of 4 years ??

 

[Cassy j]

I took it to mean it will rise to 72k per annum, over the staggered course of 4 years ??

Wow that is a 21k jump ?

 

[RailwayWannabe]

Wow that is a 21k jump ?

I guess I read it wrong. That would mean at least 9% a year for each of the four years, if it was done evenly over the time period.

 

[whoosh]

SWR's paydeal takes them to £67k by April 2022 (four year deal starting last year - running late!).
However, there is a 'regional allowance' at some depots, and a 'retention allowance' at some depots too. Waterloo and Wimbledon Park end up with almost £72k by the last year with these added on top.

Waterloo certainly needs a retention allowance, judging by the 39(!) vacancies it had in March this year.

 

[20atthemagnet]

I used to look up to the highspeed stuff as something to aim for. But times have changed I think, the pays have come alot closer together and having done mixed work for the first part of my career.. the best TOC IMO is the one that has that works best for the individual....but for me, the best balance of work/t&cs/pay and distance from home. My depot used to be a bit of a laughing stock and had nowhere near the highest pay and intensive work. Times have changed massively with devolution of depots TOC changes which means that we now have some of the shortest jobs in the UK whilst retaining T&Cs and a significant pay increase. Its now impossible to get into without an internal transfer. If I went elsewhere I might drive fast trains and get paid marginally more but id be loosing out somewhere else in t&cs or travel, I can make up any salary in the UK by doing not very much extra overtime. There are TOCs that get significantlty less pay on worse conditions and do alot more work then my own, but the individual lives across the road and can go home on spare shifts and pnbs. Lots of things to consider. Plenty of drivers across the country who wouldn't necessarily move to Eurostar/West/East coast because where they are works for them.

 

[dctraindriver]

There’s two id consider leaving my current role for. GWR or TPE. And that’s because both areas offer the opportunity to live somewhere I’d like. Given I’m supposed to work at one of the TOCs everyone wants out of I’m happy to stay put. I’m far from a corporate person but I think my TOC offers a good mix and good T&Cs. Management do a good job too. I have no interest in XC, LNER, etc etc etc...

if I stay put till retirement so be it. I realise how lucky I am to be in this role.

 

[Cassy j]

SWR's paydeal takes them to £67k by April 2022 (four year deal starting last year - running late!).
However, there is a 'regional allowance' at some depots, and a 'retention allowance' at some depots too. Waterloo and Wimbledon Park end up with almost £72k by the last year with these added on top.

Waterloo certainly needs a retention allowance, judging by the 39(!) vacancies it had in March this year.

Is their a ceiling to these increases as they have gone from the lowest to one of the highest providers? What would the increases be for someone like mtr crossrail who are already on 61k who decides the increases?

 

[Twotwo]

Is their a ceiling to these increases as they have gone from the lowest to one of the highest providers? What would the increases be for someone like mtr crossrail who are already on 61k who decides the increases?

The union. And majority would be 3-5 year deal. Then when the time is up they go back and negotiate.

 

[43066]

Another thread was getting on to the topic if what is the best work for train drivers with an ingrained assumption that LNER, Avanti, Crosscountry and Eurostar have the best work.

Southeastern, Soithwestern Railway and GTR have pretty bad reputations with fewer drivers wanting to move to those companies unless location is a factor. Obviously trainees won't care so this debate is really for qualifieds.

Would you say some depots/TOCS are looked down upon as being lesser? At Southern for instance Selhurst has a very poor reputation due to intense metro work although staff turnover must also be high due to increased living costs.

Qualified drivers if you could move anywhere where would it be and why or are you happy with things as they are ?

Some TOCs definitely have a worse reputation than others. The TOC I trained at was one of the very worst ones. The pay and T’s and C’s were pretty poor and the work was awful - up to 12 car DOO all stations work. Unsurprisingly the turnover of drivers was (and remains) high.

Incidents were common and management would put everything they could onto drivers’ licenses to make it hard for them to leave. Quite a few became trapped in this way and sadly some had become very bitter. The union was weak which certainly didn’t help, and the management culture was petty and vindictive.

I’m much happier where I am now, doing “Intercity” type work. In fact it’s the best move I’ve ever made. Most shifts are out and back, rare to have more than four trips in a shift. Yes it gets repetitive, but so does crawling around southeast London, stopping every two minutes, and staring into crap DOO monitors!

I certainly wouldn’t say high speed type work is “easier”, the concentration required is just as high, and when you’re stopping only three or four times in a couple of hours it is much easier to drift off. It doesn’t suit everyone and some people struggle with the transition.

The biggest difference I’ve noticed is how much less fatigued I am at the end of the shift. My colleagues who have come from all stations commuter work would all agree with me.

The depot I’m now at is a much happier ship than where I was before and that isn’t just down to the work. Drivers are treated like adults, managers are generally liked and respected, and are wise enough to realise that, if you treat your staff well, you get a lot more out of them.

Overall I’m happy where I am for the foreseeable. I’d only really consider a move to an equivalent Intercity TOC or possibly Eurostar for the money. Although a friend of a friend works there and, from what I’ve heard, it isn’t necessarily as appealing as some might expect.

 

[43066]

if I stay put till retirement so be it. I realise how lucky I am to be in this role.

Totally agree with this sentiment. I’ve never appreciated this industry as much as I do now and we are all very lucky to be here.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

I’d only really consider a move to an equivalent Intercity TOC or possibly Eurostar for the money. Although a friend of a friend works there and, from what I’ve heard, it isn’t necessarily as appealing as some might expect.

Why's that?
I think as has been said, each person wants different things out of the job, and I think by and large, where people start out will be the baseline for what they consider good or bad. You could start out at a really poorly paid poor work depot, and then anything would seem like a step in the right direction. Likewise if you started off at a rural depot with lots of routes and good salary, I doubt much would tempt you away.
Personally I think there's always going to be somewhat of a scramble from the suburban London DOO drivers for what they see as better work, I know I'm in the process of moving shortly to one of the aforementioned "aspirational" operators, and for me, sitting in tiny little cabs with crap seats in gutless 30 year old units doing look back DOO on punishing all stations work, I can't wait to try my hand at intercity style work, and for my current salary, almost anything is a hefty pay rise!

 

[StevieH]

Why's that?
I think as has been said, each person wants different things out of the job, and I think by and large, where people start out will be the baseline for what they consider good or bad. You could start out at a really poorly paid poor work depot, and then anything would seem like a step in the right direction. Likewise if you started off at a rural depot with lots of routes and good salary, I doubt much would tempt you away.
Personally I think there's always going to be somewhat of a scramble from the suburban London DOO drivers for what they see as better work, I know I'm in the process of moving shortly to one of the aforementioned "aspirational" operators, and for me, sitting in tiny little cabs with crap seats in gutless 30 year old units doing look back DOO on punishing all stations work, I can't wait to try my hand at intercity style work, and for my current salary, almost anything is a hefty pay rise!

This forum does seem to be very London centric lol

 

[jettofab]

I completely understand why people don't want to reveal their TOC/depot but I wish I could find out where some of you are! Nothing pre 6am sounds great. As do short turns!

I work at the lower paid end of the scale but not DOO and T&Cs are reputed to be good but I don't know enough about all other TOC T&Cs to be sure of that, if that makes sense. I wouldn't leave for a DOO TOC and I wouldn't relocate for Eurostar or similar in the South East - the buying power of the salary seems no different to what I can buy here, although I acknowledge that a higher pension would be useful if you relocate in retirement.

I know of someone who went to Avanti and was unhappy at first. He seems more settled now but says he's trapped by the money - it can't be that bad if he's happy to stay for the higher salary but the info he told me on the T&Cs in combination with the fact that I would almost certainly have to relocate, as the only depot in commuting distance is a desirable one, means it's unlikely I'd go for Avanti. Specifically, weeks of spares, spare movement, 5 day week, incremental annual leave for new starters. I know people get very defensive of Avanti, and I know they have plus points too - booking on bonuses, shift allowances and obviously basic pay, plus work content, I'm not saying I don't understand why other people go but for me personally at the moment it wouldn't be a trade off I'd be happy with.

I'm not looking to leave but I wouldn't rule it out, the diagrams are getting more and more intense and the start times more and more antisocial, although I could mitigate that by moving internally. But then if I'm going to relocate, I guess I might as well go somewhere that pays more OR has lifestyle benefits.

I'd be interested in hearing more about TPE, GWR and Scotrail depots/diagrams/T&Cs if anyone wants to share.

 

[43066]

Why's that?

Very little variety in terms of stopping patterns, also a bland, fairly featureless route. Apparently you start off doing Paris only and it takes years to add Brussels. Most of the time is just spent sitting at 300kph.

That said they treat their staff well and Ts and Cs are second to none.

Personally I think there's always going to be somewhat of a scramble from the suburban London DOO drivers for what they see as better work, I know I'm in the process of moving shortly to one of the aforementioned "aspirational" operators, and for me, sitting in tiny little cabs with crap seats in gutless 30 year old units doing look back DOO on punishing all stations work, I can't wait to try my hand at intercity style work, and for my current salary, almost anything is a hefty pay rise!

You won’t regret making that move. We are lucky in the London area to have a wide variety of TOCs to chose from. As you say people all want different things, but it’s noticeable that people generally start off on all shacks work and then move to intercity, but not many go the other way.

How has the reaction of your colleagues been to your decision to leave? A few people stopped speaking to me when I said I was leaving! Green eyed monster syndrome. Some right special treats worked at my last depot, that’s for sure.

Always amazes me how many drivers moan endlessly, but don’t have the gumption to move. My attitude is that people should either make the best of it and suck it up, or simply leave. Moaning and doing nothing to change things just drags everyone else down.

 

[Manda2194]

Hi guys, I am an aspiring trainee. Obviously, at my stage, I am desperate to get into any TOC that will have me but I notice on here a few people mention good and bad depots. I'm curious to know what makes a good or bad depot? As someone looking from the outside industry I would have thought they would all be pretty similar

 

[43066]

Hi guys, I am an aspiring trainee. Obviously, at my stage, I am desperate to get into any TOC that will have me but I notice on here a few people mention good and bad depots. I'm curious to know what makes a good or bad depot? As someone looking from the outside industry I would have thought they would all be pretty similar

There’s a number of factors, the most important being the work. The general view is that, the less you stop, the better.

At the TOC I trained at new drivers would typically qualify at one of the London depots doing all stops metro work. I did it for years and, trust me, if you do it you’ll soon realise what a grind it is. The country/coastal depots did class 1 work (and had guards) and people would typically either put in for a move for one of these depots, or leave (as I did). Depot moves can take years, though.

Even within my former TOC’s metro area some depots were regarded as better than others due to minor differences in the work and route knowledge (the more routes, the better, as you get more variety).. One depot had an enormous yard so were allocated a lot more walking time (therefore less time in the chair), but they also had much earlier and later start/finish times due to getting trains out and putting them away. Swings and roundabouts.

Then you get into factors such as local managers, colleagues, union reps etc. which can all combine to make the job a lot better, or a lot worse.

 

[DA1]

As a qualified moving to another TOC what is the process after getting the job? Do you just do a pts/rules test (no course), traction course and route learning? Also do they go up to the full rate when starting the job?
I’ve been successful to become a trainee but it means relocating which is what I’ll be doing. Obviously there’s still a long way to go for me and many more obstacles but after time at the TOC and when I can, I intend to move back towards where I am at the moment.

 

[43066]

As a qualified moving to another TOC what is the process after getting the job? Do you just do a pts/rules test (no course), traction course and route learning? Also do they go up to the full rate when starting the job?
I’ve been successful to become a trainee but it means relocating which is what I’ll be doing. Obviously there’s still a long way to go for me and many more obstacles but after time at the TOC and when I can, I intend to move back towards where I am at the moment.

At my new place it was PTS and straight into route learning. Full money straight away.

This varies by TOC. At Cross Country, for example, you go onto a reduced salary until you’re fully productive on all routes and traction (and possibly for a year or so after qualifying, as I recall).

 

[PudseyBearHST]

At my new place it was PTS and straight into route learning. Full money straight away.

A few traction courses as well I should think unless you’re still running around in your networker up and down the country

 

[43066]

A few traction courses as well I should think unless you’re still running around in your networker up and down the country

Yes, you’re quite right, of course. No idea why I omitted that.

No more Networkers for me, thank God. Although I still have to commute on the bloody things .

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Being slightly biased , I would imagine Machynlleth would be a very desirable depot to work from - OK 158's , but superb scenic runs and a chance to have a reality check by working down to the West Midlands. Or do they only work to Salop ?

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

You won’t regret making that move. We are lucky in the London area to have a wide variety of TOCs to chose from. As you say people all want different things, but it’s noticeable that people generally start off on all shacks work and then move to intercity, but not many go the other way.

How has the reaction of your colleagues been to your decision to leave? A few people stopped speaking to me when I said I was leaving! Green eyed monster syndrome. Some right special treats worked at my last depot, that’s for sure.

90% of my colleagues have been really excited and pleased for me, but the odd one or two are a little off about it, i put it down to jealousy too haha