Most successfull Chasis ( keep it clean)

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by delt1c, 3 Dec 2019.

  1. delt1c

    delt1c Established Member

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    Now wondering what is the most successful chasis is /was. Whilst the RM was innovative the price tag was to high for municipals, so didnt get sales outside London except Nothern General. The Atlanean was adopted by many because it was suitable for OMO. The fleetline became close . My Favorite the Bristol FLF but wasnt suited for OMO. 2 chasis for me that must be close to perfection , the Seddon Pennine and the Volvo Ailsa
    Over to you
     
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  3. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Depends which Seddon Pennine you mean.

    The Seddon Pennine 7 was good. The Seddon Pennine RU was awful !
     
  4. delt1c

    delt1c Established Member

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    The Sedona Pennine VII which saves the SBG in the late 70’s
     
  5. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    Was the Pennine VII really that successful? There were only 500-odd built (going by Bus Lists on the Web's records).

    Compare that with over 13000 Leyland Leopards, over 9000 AEC Reliances and nearly 11000 Volvo B10Ms. Even the B58 sold in larger numbers.

    I suppose it depends on how you define success.
     
  6. 83G/84D

    83G/84D Established Member

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    Chassis need to be ‘kept clean’ otherwise rot sets in!
     
  7. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    Reliability wise (and working on from the maintenance side of things) my 3 would be the Leyland Leopard, Leyland National (680 engine) and Volvo B10M.
     
  8. martinsh

    martinsh Established Member

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    Bristol RE
     
  9. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    You need to define what you mean by successful. The Ford Transit or the Mercedes 608D would be hard to beat in terms of sales numbers!
     
  10. 56 1/2

    56 1/2 Member

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    Regent III / RT
    London bought a few and so did the provinces
     
  11. Statto

    Statto Established Member

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    Leyland/Volvo Olympian-Leyland National, & Dennis Dart including Dennis Dart Low Floor, felt like every operator had these types, the national felt like default single decker in the 70s & 80s, Dart in the 90s. the Olympian was everywhere in the 80s & 90s
     
  12. Strathclyder

    Strathclyder Established Member

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    It all depends on how one defines success. If one were to rate success on the basis on the number of buses sold, on both the domestic & international markets combined, the Trident platform in all it's forms (from it's early Dennis days through the tumultuous Transbus period to the present ADL era with the E400MMC/City) is probably the best candidate for the best-selling doubler decker model of the last 20+ years.

    Runners-up in terms of sales on the decker side of things (irrespective of era) would be the Leyland Titan family (the TDs/OPDs/PDs, not the later B15), the Guy Arab family, the AEC Regent family (as @56 1/2 alludes to with the Regent IIIs/RTs), the Bristol Lodekka*, the Leyland Atlantean, the Bristol VR, the Daimler/Leyland Fleetline & the Leyland/Volvo Olympian.

    *: Am humming & hawing over whether or not to include the Dennis Loline in the overall number of Lodekkas built, seeing as it was, for all intents and purposes, a rebadged Lodekka built under licence. It'd likely be a cheat in one way or another, so I won't count it lol
     
  13. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    It's no doubt in my mind that the Dart SLF (as much as i loath them) and the Trident are up there in terms of vehicle types from the past 20 or so years. The influence on the industry they had can clearly be seen today and Dennis were certainly ahead of their time with the Dart which was basically an "extended" Midi-Bus. Today the UK Bus industry is dominated by larger Midi-Buses (E200MMC, Streelite, Versa & Metrocity being the main examples to mind).

    The National was probably one of the most revolutionary single deckers, it brought so many new ideas and techniques to the industry that hadn't been done before and are still used today.

    The RM (much like it's Boris sibling) was a revolutionary design that grabbed media attention, however neither were exactly successful outside the M25 Bubble. The RM did provide longevity but part of that was due to extensive maintenance including the entire vehicle being rebuilt/refurbished every few years. Compared to other types sales of both were fairly low and really nothing outside London. While RMs did see later life outside London i suspect part of the reason for this was down to Nostalgia and not much more.

    With recent vehicles much of the innovations are stuff that are maybe not as noticed by the average joe, stuff like wrap around windscreens which help reduce blind spots and ADL's QRG glass which gives you the stylish appearance of bonded glazing, but without the extensive hours long process to just change a single window. Some people say there's no innovation in the industry today, but i'd disagree. Go on a stock Stagecoach spec Enviro200 followed by a brand new Enviro200MMC and you'll see plenty of improvements. from the automatically dimming interior lights, all in one cab door with bandit screen, USB seatback charging and so on.

    A shout out should also go to the B10M and Olympian, purely due to their longevity, popularity and reliability. The B10M in particular (and the "B10 range" in general) is one of the few chassis types that did it all, it could be a light weight coach, Express coach, double decker, local service bus, articulated bus.

    Lastly the Solo deserves a mention, like them or loath them it was a very successful product and the only wheel forward low floor bus in the UK to sell in high numbers until that awful WrightBus contraption also known as the Streetlite came along around 10 years ago...

    In terms of decker chassis sales the "Trident" is actually now the most successful of all time followed by the Atlantean. And with it still in production it's total sales are only going to increase.
     
  14. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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  15. bussnapperwm

    bussnapperwm Member

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    For the WM area, the Metrobus has to be the one most successful (over 1100 examples built for just one operator!)
     
  16. Strathclyder

    Strathclyder Established Member

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    Had it in the back of my mind that it had topped the Atlantean's sales figure a while ago, but wasn't 100% sure, so played it safe with the 'last 20+ years' bit.
     
  17. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    It was only really Northern General which initially expressed an interest in the RM outside London, but the reason for their popularity after deregulation was less to do with nostalgia than the cut-throat nature of competition at the time. The crew-operated RM could hoover up passengers at a stop and be on its way while OPO drivers would still be collecting fares.
     
  18. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    While i fully agree, i don't think it's unfair to say that part of it was to do with nostalgia. The RM was and is a icon of the 1960s, and it offered a familiar face / marketing tool for operators. Add to that the extensive maintenance they had while in London and it makes them very attractive to the cowboy firms of the 80s who loved to run duplicate buses 2 minutes ahead of each other :lol:.

    The Trident is at around 18,000 now, whereas around 15,800 Atlantean's were built.
     
  19. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    I may have forgotten some over the years however I don't associate RMs with the cowboys. From memory most were used to protect existing routes and even when they were in competition (Reading and Southampton spring to mind) the operations were some of the better run examples. The RM still needed TLC to keep going (the sold examples still had their original engines for example) and had much higher staff costs than most cowboys were willing to deal with.
    Of course as the RM dosent have a chassis it could be said to be outside of this thread!
     
  20. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    It was just a sarcastic comment put in for fun (as stated by the emoji!). While there wasn't a chassis per say there still was a sub frame, however yes perhaps not the most relevant type to mention in this thread.
     
  21. Great_Western

    Great_Western Member

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    In modern times, I doubt anything would come close to the Citaro. Whilst not particularly reflected in the UK, I'd wager there are very few cities in Europe without them. They're reliable if looked after properly and from a passenger perspective nothing comes close to being as good IMO. Even on a recent trip to Riga, their knackered older examples are still in far better shape than the much newer (also prolific in Europe) Solaris Urbinos.

    Of course in the broader sense the Volvo B10M, Dennis Dart, Leyland/Volvo Olympian and Scannia K Series are all likely up there.
     
  22. delt1c

    delt1c Established Member

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    Interesting the replies that consider sales numbers to be a success. The Atlantean made many sales but had many problems ( not all fully resolved), Likewise the Fleetline had several weak points , especialy the coupling from the engine to the gearbox, but as they were rerady made for opo they sold well. Londons Titans served well with few problems but price tag was to high for most operators. Likewise the FRM and the Birmingham B10's had potential but again cost of development could not be justified when of the shelf models were available. So does volume sales equal sucsess ?
     
  23. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    B10M
    Olympian
    RT
     
  24. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Sales volume does equal success in that market. We’re not talking about manufacturing Morgans but mass market bus sales.

    Not quite so certain about some of the models. The AN68 Atlantean was markedly different from the PDR version in much the same way as comparing a Trident with an ADL e400mmc - it’s all a bit Trigger’s Broom!

    The Dennis Dart was/is the one that is perhaps the most successful.
     
  25. Wirewiper

    Wirewiper Member

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    The only operator outside London that bought RTs new was St Helens - they bought 40 in two batches in 1950/1951. Their General Manager at the time was R Edgeley-Cox who had been an engineer with London Transport, and he realised that the RTs were just slightly lower than provincial highbridge bodied buses of the time, so would just get under a couple of low bridges in the town. They were almost completely London-spec, even down to the seat moquette. Even the blind apertures were the same, although St Helens adapted the displays for their own purposes.

    However - many operators did buy second-hand RTs in the later 1950s, when London Transport service cuts started to bite. At 7 years old these well-engineered and maintained vehicles were a bargain for many provincial operators.
     
  26. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    Citaro sales figures were at 55,000 as of a couple of months ago:
    https://media.daimler.com/marsMedia...culated-bus-with-fuel-cell.xhtml?oid=44319496
     
  27. Roilshead

    Roilshead Member

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    What does "most successful" mean? - is it simply largest number of sales figures?, in which case increased global trading and the falling-by-the-wayside of many manufacturers would eliminate many models from years gone by. And does the reference to "chassis" exclude integral or "semi-integral" vehicles without a separate driveable chassis? Whatever, if you're just considering sales figures then its quite a trite question, which can be answered quite easily with a bit of (not-too-demanding) searching on the internet.

    A more interesting question would be to explore "what is the most influential chassis/integral [sic]?"
     
  28. beermaddavep

    beermaddavep Member

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    Maybe the Ikarus 280? 61000 were produced between 1973 and 2002, still loads working around the world. I think a demonstrator made it to the UK? Bulletproof workhorses, will run forever in tough conditions, not exactly luxurious though!

    PS if anybody fancies buying one, Budapest have a load for sale between 33 and 26 years old, with a mere million and a half kilometers each on the clock :)
     
  29. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Well despite it's name change in 2005, it's still virtually the same chassis, right?
     
  30. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    Quite alot of differences between then and now.
     
  31. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    There's not been a name change however, it's still the "Trident". Obviously there's been changes over the years but it's still the same product in the sense that a VW Golf built in the 90s and one built now are still the same product, it's just a evolution.
     

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