Motorail facilities

[robertclark125]

Firstly, to the moderators, please move this thread to the Stations and Infrastructure forum if that is where it should be.

On my layout, Clydebridge Station, I'll be modelling a small motorail facility. It led me to wonder though, what stations had motorail facilities in 1989, when my layout is set. It also had me wondering, what motorail facilities each station had.

I would imagine the facilities at Kensington Olympia or Euston would be larger than say Penzance. So, what facilities for motorail existed at each motorail station? And, what stations still have their motorail ramps? I know of Fort William, Edinburgh, and Inverness.

Lastly, what platform at each station was the dedicated motorail platform?

 

[edwin_m]

Euston platform 17 certainly still had an end loading ramp a few months ago. This is part of the station that disappears into HS2 soon so it won't be there much longer.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm sure Stirling had a ramp but whether its still there or not I can't recall.

 

[Taunton]

Ramps at bufferstops were quite simple to construct. However, things depended on which way round the siding was pointing (cars had to be driven on and off forwards) and which way the train had to go. Trains had to run with cars pointing forwards, as their windscreen is stressed much more than the rear window, pulling backwards would tend to break the rear window of cars, as was discovered on some earliest services.

There was little provision for a terminal, as on arrival the car would be loaded and the passengers would then sit in the coaches waiting for departure.

I can only speak about a 1966 experience on the Newton-le-Willows to Newton Abbot train. At N-l-W the siding pointed eastwards, so our cars were loaded facing east. The coaching stock was in the adjacent bay. The Class 47, which worked right through, and had presumably run up light from Crewe, then shunted the coaches onto the front of the cars and pulled the full train forward towards Manchester. A Warrington Black 5 (yes, really, it was 1966) then attached to the rear and pulled the whole train backwards (not too fast) through Earlestown, where it stopped, and the 47 then set off via the west-to-south curve to the southbound WCML.

At Newton Abbot it was all diesel by then so the car flats were shunted to the ramp by the station pilot 08.

On both arrivals instructions to car occupants were given over the station PA. At a time when such messages were wholly operational, it was strange to hear the announcer having to read a longwinded script evidently prepared by Motorail marketing, thanking you for your custom and such like.

Did anyone else here ever have their family car hauled by steam?

 

[Busaholic]

I'm trying to remember the facilities at Penzance - my father used them a couple of times when coming to visit me, and the first was almost certainly 1989. I believe that Motorail used the siding platforms on the seaward side of the station (platforms 5/6 if they were to be numbered, I'd guess). There was direct access from the car park.

 

[Bertie the bus]

This was the Motorail platform and ramp at Penzance in 1988 - https://flic.kr/p/rwoPmk

 

[Busaholic]

This was the Motorail platform and ramp at Penzance in 1988 - https://flic.kr/p/rwoPmk

I was correct about the location, then. The photo was taken one day before I moved to Penzance, which was thirty years ago later this month.

 

[Cowley]

I was correct about the location, then. The photo was taken one day before I moved to Penzance, which was thirty years ago later this month.

God how can 1988 be 30 years ago?
I remember looking over the wall at the station as a kid ten years before when we lived there and being fascinated at all the activity...

 

[Cowley]

Did anyone else here ever have their family car hauled by steam?

Funnily enough I was at the Dartmoor Railway on Saturday with my Dad (Oerlikon) and Ash Bridge and my Dad remembers arriving at Okehampton on a car carrying service from London with his parents (my grandparents) being hauled by a West Country.
Seems quite strange to imagine somehow.

 

[Bald Rick]

Euston platform 17 certainly still had an end loading ramp a few months ago. This is part of the station that disappears into HS2 soon so it won't be there much longer.

The ramp was still there when my train pulled into P17 this afternoon. It’s in exactly the same condition it was when it was last used.

 

[Busaholic]

God how can 1988 be 30 years ago?
.

Try as hard as I can and I can't get that figure down.lol

 

[47271]

Edinburgh ramp has very recently gone as part of the work on P5/6.

 

[dubscottie]

Most Motorail facilities in Scotland consisted of a bay platform (with road access) with the buffer stops removed. The stops were replaced by what looks like an old sleeper, attached to the platform wall.

Concrete was used to build a ramp upto the floor height of the GUV van floors.

Inverness, Perth, Edinburgh (until the rebuild started) and Carlisle all used the same end loading arrangement.

Stirling used CarFlats so they were side loaded IIRC.

Edit- CarFlats using Perth unloaded in the siding by the carriage shed. GUV in one of the bay platforms. This is just from memory so not 100%

 

[jimm]

Digressing a bit but services between the ECML and Scotland also used the Newton Chambers covered carriers with a well deck between the bogies for two cars. The floor level of the main deck was elevated to give enough headroom for the cars stowed in the well deck but I don't know what ramp arrangements were used for this type and their last use was about 1987.

They ran to Scotland and down to the West Country - also had full train ferry fittings but I don't think they ever went anywhere near the Continent.

They were a regular feature at York for many years, where the Motorail terminal was at the south-east end of the station.

A Newton Chambers car carrier in ex-works condition in blue and grey livery at Perth in 1967 - picture by George Woods https://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/8468468772/

And quite a few photos of Motorail services from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s here - this also includes an unloading wagon used at Carlisle where there was no loading dock. Cars were driven on or off the GUVs via the wagon from/to a platform alongside the train. https://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p234657234/h5CBDFEBC#h1b743f20

Good picture from Glasgow Central showing a similar wagon in use there in 1995.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/14771670359

Edit - have found an rmweb thread with a picture of the arrangement at York, loading dock with GUVs on one side (used for taller vehicles), then a separate ramp added on the adjacent track to get up to the height of the Newton Chambers' covered carriers' main deck.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20982

 

[jonty14]

Slightly off topic. I remember seeing a photo of a class 86 sandwiched between passenger coaches and motorail rolling stock. I think the 86 was pushing the coaches and the car vans attached to the rear. I could be wrong though.

 

[Highlandspring]

One of my colleagues once told me that one of his duties in Control during the late 70s/early 80s when the Stirling, Perth and Inverness Motorail services used open flat wagons was to compile the daily list of smashed windscreens, broken windows and damaged bodywork caused by vandalism or high ballast en route, for use later when a claim was invariably made against the railway. A tarpaulin windscreen cover was a chargeable extra which apparently not many folk went for.

 

[swt_passenger]

We had a thread a few years ago about how the flats and coaches were marshalled at Brockenhurst:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/motor-rail-at-brockenhurst.83971/
Given the references to broken windows above, one of the linked flickr photos shows a damaged front window.

I think the ramp is still in place, next to where one of the cycle hire firms operates - out of an old coach.
Should be visible on Google street view here: https://goo.gl/maps/xQp9bv44NK62

 

[jimm]

Slightly off topic. I remember seeing a photo of a class 86 sandwiched between passenger coaches and motorail rolling stock. I think the 86 was pushing the coaches and the car vans attached to the rear. I could be wrong though.

This might be the one you are thinking of - see post 360, showing 87019 at Wigan in 1995 propelling a train south with a GUV coupled behind it.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113910-photos-of-ac-electrics/page-15

 

[Highlandspring]

Motorail GUVs were routinely coupled behind the loco on WCML push pull sets during the 1990s to simplify shunting.

 

[Helvellyn]

And quite a few photos of Motorail services from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s here - this also includes an unloading wagon used at Carlisle where there was no loading dock. Cars were driven on or off the GUVs via the wagon from/to a platform alongside the train. https://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p234657234/h5CBDFEBC#h1b743f20

Actually, Carlisle did have a loading dock located behind the curtain wall the other side of platform 5. But it was quite a complicated shunting move for the station pilot to remove the Motorail GUVs from the front of a train arrived from Euston, run through the station, run around the Motorail GUVs then shunt them into the bay. Using the unloading wagon allowed for a much quicker loading/unloading with cars also using the parcel access ramp to wait loading between platforms 1 and 3.

 

[Springs Branch]

........I can only speak about a 1966 experience on the Newton-le-Willows to Newton Abbot train. At N-l-W the siding pointed eastwards, so our cars were loaded facing east. The coaching stock was in the adjacent bay. The Class 47, which worked right through, and had presumably run up light from Crewe, then shunted the coaches onto the front of the cars and pulled the full train forward towards Manchester. A Warrington Black 5 (yes, really, it was 1966) then attached to the rear and pulled the whole train backwards (not too fast) through Earlestown, where it stopped, and the 47 then set off via the west-to-south curve to the southbound WCML.........

I was about to mention Newton-le-Willows as a Motorail terminal, until I realised its two services ceased in the early 1970s, well before the OP's target date. In fact, I don't think the NLW to Stirling and St Austell trains lasting into the Electric Scot era (1974 onwards), even though the two Motorail sidings were included in the 1972 pre-electrification Warrington PSB rationalization / resignalling scheme and were subsequently electrified.

Anyhow, the long-redundant loading ramps at Newton-le-Willows did survive into the Internet age and there are pictures of these on the web:-
https://theghoststationhunters.smug...ns-e/Newton-Le-Willows-Motorail-Ram/i-pLGWTkN

 

[daodao]

I was about to mention Newton-le-Willows as a Motorail terminal, until I realised its two services ceased in the early 1970s, well before the OP's target date. In fact, I don't think the NLW to Stirling and St Austell trains lasting into the Electric Scot era (1974 onwards), even though the two Motorail sidings were included in the 1972 pre-electrification Warrington PSB rationalization / resignalling scheme and were subsequently electrified.

Anyhow, the long-redundant loading ramps at Newton-le-Willows did survive into the Internet age and there are pictures of these on the web:-
https://theghoststationhunters.smug...ns-e/Newton-Le-Willows-Motorail-Ram/i-pLGWTkN

I recall using the NLW services to Newton Abbot (day train via the Marches line) in 1968 and a night sleeper to Inverness in 1972 (returning by day train from Perth). My parents also used the service in 1973 to travel to Cornwall, but I can't recall the NLW services running after then.

 

[Springs Branch]

One more question about Newton-le-Willows Motorail (as we have a couple of members who actually travelled from there).....

I think I read that the bay platform used for the passenger portion of the Motorail train was too short to take all the carriages, and passengers had to board and alight by walking through the train and using one or two doors at the very end (presumably not that onerous if all your heavy luggage was in your car).

Am I correct in this, or am I thinking of somewhere other than NLW?

 

[jonty14]

This might be the one you are thinking of - see post 360, showing 87019 at Wigan in 1995 propelling a train south with a GUV coupled behind it.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113910-photos-of-ac-electrics/page-15

Thank for the link. Most interesting.

 

[Taunton]

I don't recall any platform issue at N-l-W. I was only just a teenager. I do remember as we walked along there to the outward train another party had spread the most sumptuous-looking picnic across the seats in their compartment, which everyone was commenting on. The train though also had a full restaurant car, charged at normal train prices, which although I was well used to train catering by this time was my first ever rail breakfast.

Each car party was assigned their own compartment in the MK 1 FKs; with 7 of these per coach and 4 cars per carflat it was about a 2:1 ratio of stock. The car flats were apparently Stanier era coaches with the body removed and a wooden deck, with connecting plates.

At N-l-W the cars were driven both on and off by a railman. At Newton Abbot, both ways, you had to do it yourself under handsignals.

The ghosts of the car loading track and the adjacent bay at N-l-W can still be seen as weedbeds on Google Earth on the north side of the station.

 

[robertclark125]

GWR has confirmed to me on Twitter, that the motorail platform at Penzance was platform 4. This is the only platform which does not go into the train shed at the station. It also is the one with the stone welcoming you to Penzance, in both Cornish and English.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The loading facility at Newton Abbot was the former Moretonhampstead bay platform - it is still there but now trackless. The reception office was in a corner of the adjacent station building. At Totnes cars were side-loaded on to the flats from the main platforms (which have level access from the roads on both sides) - pretty unthinkable these days! At St Austell the original goods yard behind the up platform was used, replete with a prefab reception 'lounge'.

 

[randyrippley]

Slightly off topic. I remember seeing a photo of a class 86 sandwiched between passenger coaches and motorail rolling stock. I think the 86 was pushing the coaches and the car vans attached to the rear. I could be wrong though.

That was standard practice once the MkIII DVTs came into use. Rather than use a special Motorail rake, the car vans were attached to the back of a standard WCML rake. Got interesting during the weekend diversions for the West Coast upgrade when the power was off: superpower time. I remember one train with a full MkIII rake, 86, vans, led by a 37 and two 20's all under power heading north toward Carnforth

edit
thinking about it, that last set must have got reversed on an earlier trip via the Settle line, as the DVT was at the north end.
Also its just come back to me - a southbound MkIII motorail set which failed at Lancaster. It was routed into platform 5 to get it out of the way, but with the vans fouled the points at the north end, so blocking platform 4. Everything had to try and use 3, total chaos. In the end I think several trains skipped Lancaster by using the through tracks

 

[Pigeon]

There used to be a Motorail terminal at Worcester Shrub Hill - very minimal, just one bay and that was it. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/interests/rail/stnpages/worcestershrubhill.html has some clear pictures of the platforms at Shrub Hill; the photo about a quarter of the way down captioned "At the northern end of the same platform what looks like it was once a bay has now become a car park" shows where it used to be. It looked just like the bay at the other end of the same platform shown in the next photo down, before it was filled in. It used to accommodate two or three GUVs which would then be shunted onto the back of the main train.

One of my colleagues once told me that one of his duties in Control during the late 70s/early 80s when the Stirling, Perth and Inverness Motorail services used open flat wagons was to compile the daily list of smashed windscreens, broken windows and damaged bodywork caused by vandalism or high ballast en route, for use later when a claim was invariably made against the railway. A tarpaulin windscreen cover was a chargeable extra which apparently not many folk went for.

I remember seeing Motorail trains on the WCML and it was very rare to see a car without a protective mat over the windscreen - I assumed it was provided as standard - but it was also pretty rare to see the cover actually doing any good, because of the stupid design. Instead of having four tie-down points, one in each corner, like you'd expect, they had only two tie-down points, one half-way up each of the short sides. So of course the wind would get under the lower edge and flip the entire lower half of the mat, the part below a line joining the two tie-down points, up in the air at a silly angle, leaving most of the windscreen exposed. And once the mat had flipped up it would then stay like that for the rest of the journey, being stiff enough not to fall back down when the train slowed.

They weren't tarpaulins; they were some sort of foam rubber composition. At least one mat, in indescribably filthy condition, remained at Shrub Hill for many years after the Motorail facility had closed, being used to save staff's knees when kneeling on hard surfaces, so I got to see it at close quarters when it was lying around on the platform.

 

[Pokelet]

Indeed, it's at the extreme end of platform 1A, I've not had to kill time there waiting for a late runner for about a year but it was all present and correct. It's gated staff parking now