Mouldsworth to West Cheshire Junction

[Cheshire Rover]

I picked up on an article on the North Wales Coast noticeboard.
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm
It appears that Peel Holdings are to reopen the Ellesmere Port railhead (Good news for freight fans). Now I remember this used to route freight via the now lifted, but preserved, line between Cheshire West Junction and Mouldsworth. Is it possible that this line may now reopen? The original signal box at the CWJ has been demolished following a fire but I suppose could be operated via Helsby? The reopening of this line offers direct acces from as far as Birkenhead through to the Mid Cheshire line and beyond.

 

[merlodlliw]

Excellent to see this infrastructure & extra use of "the Port", it all helps,well picked up btw, id missed it.


Bob

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Excellent to see this infrastructure & extra use of "the Port", it all helps,well picked up btw, id missed it.


Bob

Thanks Bob. Great to see freight infrastructure reopening. Hopefully this will help grow the area bit and encourage new business.

 

[stockport1]

I walked the line from mouldsworth to somewhere in manley in january.
its quite overgrown. its amazing how fast nature reclaims land!

a few bridges will need renewing but the alignment is
intact and in quite good nick.

this should deffo be reopened for freight and the mid cheshire needs double tracking from here onwards too.

the whole mid cheshire line is underused. i blame some of it on metrolink screwing up the manchester connection.

with chester-northwich, knutsford and altrincham this line could be a commuter goldmine to complement the freight ..but who wants to spend an hour on a nodding donkey in the mornings to get 20 miles from knutsford to manchester?

I PRESCRIBE DOUBLE TRACK AND ELECTRIFY

 

[trickyvegas]

I walked the line from mouldsworth to somewhere in manley in january.

This board is reading very poetically tonight.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I picked up on an article on the North Wales Coast noticeboard.
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm
It appears that Peel Holdings are to reopen the Ellesmere Port railhead (Good news for freight fans). Now I remember this used to route freight via the now lifted, but preserved, line between Cheshire West Junction and Mouldsworth. Is it possible that this line may now reopen? The original signal box at the CWJ has been demolished following a fire but I suppose could be operated via Helsby? The reopening of this line offers direct acces from as far as Birkenhead through to the Mid Cheshire line and beyond.

I suppose they had enough spare cash to do this, after selling the Trafford Centre(....or the Greater Manchester Vatican as it is sometimes known)

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I walked the line from mouldsworth to somewhere in manley in january.
its quite overgrown. its amazing how fast nature reclaims land!

a few bridges will need renewing but the alignment is
intact and in quite good nick.

this should deffo be reopened for freight and the mid cheshire needs double tracking from here onwards too.

the whole mid cheshire line is underused. i blame some of it on metrolink screwing up the manchester connection.

with chester-northwich, knutsford and altrincham this line could be a commuter goldmine to complement the freight ..but who wants to spend an hour on a nodding donkey in the mornings to get 20 miles from knutsford to manchester?

I PRESCRIBE DOUBLE TRACK AND ELECTRIFY

Birkenhead to all stations up the Mid Cheshire..hock: It would take forever. Still, it could be a commuter route with decent enough rolling stock. I suppose it could run to Altrincham for the Metro??

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Birkenhead to all stations up the Mid Cheshire..hock: It would take forever. Still, it could be a commuter route with decent enough rolling stock. I suppose it could run to Altrincham for the Metro??

This is beginning to have the rail alternative to the bus return journey that is part of the package, when the Mersey Ferries trips run trips to and from their Liverpool base to Salford Quays.

This will really be a day out to remember. Five and a half hours sailing to Salford Quays, to see the attractions there. Then to board a tram from Harbour City to the tram interchange then the second tram to Altrincham where this new rail service will take you back to Birkenhead.

I am sorry to dissapoint all contributors who are itching to suggest that this train should be comprised of 4 sets (coupled together) of Merseyrail Class 142 Pacers which will both give the Merseyrail ambiance coupled with the unrivalled riding capacity that this train would give on the mid-Cheshire line and the lines in the Wirral area......the train would be unfortunately be comprised of more convential stock.....well, you can only have so much exitement in one day!!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I walked the line from mouldsworth to somewhere in manley in january.
its quite overgrown. its amazing how fast nature reclaims land!

a few bridges will need renewing but the alignment is
intact and in quite good nick.

this should deffo be reopened for freight and the mid cheshire needs double tracking from here onwards too.

the whole mid cheshire line is underused. i blame some of it on metrolink screwing up the manchester connection.

with chester-northwich, knutsford and altrincham this line could be a commuter goldmine to complement the freight ..but who wants to spend an hour on a nodding donkey in the mornings to get 20 miles from knutsford to manchester?

I PRESCRIBE DOUBLE TRACK AND ELECTRIFY

I had a walk up it last night from Helsby to Manley. Very overgrown but the bed looks in good condition.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can claim to have travelled over this line in a passenger train, in 1962.

I was on a Manchester Central-Barmouth DMU excursion.
The route was via Altrincham (where I got on), Mouldsworth, Helsby West Cheshire Jn, reverse through Helsby main line, then via Chester, Ruabon, Llangollen and Dolgellau on the outward trip, returning via Dovey Jn, Welshpool and Oswestry to Ruabon and then the outward route.

This was in the days before the junction at Mickle Trafford was rebuilt to allow through running from Northwich to Chester General.

I was also my only trip Ruabon-Barmouth and Welshpool-Gobowen.
A good day out.

Richard

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I can claim to have travelled over this line in a passenger train, in 1962.

I was on a Manchester Central-Barmouth DMU excursion.
The route was via Altrincham (where I got on), Mouldsworth, Helsby West Cheshire Jn, reverse through Helsby main line, then via Chester, Ruabon, Llangollen and Dolgellau on the outward trip, returning via Dovey Jn, Welshpool and Oswestry to Ruabon and then the outward route.

This was in the days before the junction at Mickle Trafford was rebuilt to allow through running from Northwich to Chester General.

I was also my only trip Ruabon-Barmouth and Welshpool-Gobowen.
A good day out.

Richard

When I was a child our family house used to back on to this line and I remember the odd DMU trundling up it during the summer months. That would have been in the early 70's. Plenty of freight all year round.

 

[Spagnoletti]

Has the formation been preserved alongside the new Tesco on the old BICC site? I've not looked myself but I was under the impression that the cycle path is much narrower than what would be required for even a single line. I have to say I think the chances of CWJ -> Mouldsworth reinstatement are approximately zero.
It's good to see Quinn glass etc taking freight off the roads though.

 

[pemma]

Birkenhead to all stations up the Mid Cheshire..hock: It would take forever. Still, it could be a commuter route with decent enough rolling stock. I suppose it could run to Altrincham for the Metro??

Most stations on the Mid Cheshire line can't justify more than 1 train per hour. However, to put the Mid Cheshire line on a par with other lines out of Manchester Greenbank and Hale could justify 2 services per hour (plus Delamere on Saturdays and daily in the Summer timetable), while Northwich, Knutsford and Altrincham could justify 3 services per hour. If the line had 3 trains per hour then the services would be faster as not every train would need to call at every station.

 

[gnolife]

Most stations on the Mid Cheshire line can't justify more than 1 train per hour. However, to put the Mid Cheshire line on a par with other lines out of Manchester Greenbank and Hale could justify 2 services per hour (plus Delamere on Saturdays and daily in the Summer timetable), while Northwich, Knutsford and Altrincham could justify 3 services per hour. If the line had 3 trains per hour then the services would be faster as not every train would need to call at every station.

What I'd suggest, somewhat influenced by the above post
1 TPH Manchester Piccadilly to Wrexham General, calling at Stockport, Navigation Road, Altrincham, Hale, Ashley, Mobberley, Knutsford, Plumley, Lostock Gralam, Northwich, Greenbank, Cuddington, Delamere, Mouldsworth, Chester and Wrexham General - Wrexham needs the additional services, as it only gets the 1 TPH now
1 TPH Navigation Road to Chester, calling at Altrincham, Hale, Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank, Delamere and Chester (Winter Sat and all days Sunday), recommending Navgation Roadi as a terminus becuase its single track, so would be somewhat easier to turn around than at Altrincham or Stockport. Also, with the single track nature of the line Navigation Road to Stockport, it would be somewhat difficult to have more services going there.

 

[pemma]

1 TPH Navigation Road to Chester, calling at Altrincham, Hale, Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank, Delamere and Chester (Winter Sat and all days Sunday),

Why Winter Saturdays and Sundays only?

Also, with the single track nature of the line Navigation Road to Stockport, it would be somewhat difficult to have more services going there.

They manage a roughly 30 minute between Chester and Stockport on weekdays at peak times with some DB freight using the line between near Northwich and Northenden.

 

[gnolife]

ah, typo... damn!
not supposed to say sunday, its supposed to say summer!

and with the stopping short at navi, it means that they wont be delayed if trains are getting delayed heading from stockport

 

[lancastrian]

Interesting topic. I will always supprt the reopening on all useful rail lines. If the goods traffic from the reopened freight depot at Ellesmere Port is not to block the Merseyrail Line and others in the area, this reopening is a very practical idea. Double tracking would be the best, but knowing how our political masters, always try and do all rail investment on the cheap (except in the London area), it will proberbly be only single track.

However, until the do something about the single track from Altrincham, through Navigation Road, until the line to Stockport diverges (sorry cannot remember the name of the juntion). The Mid Cheshire line will always have its capacity restricted, especially at the end which has most demend by passengers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Interesting topic. I will always supprt the reopening on all useful rail lines. If the goods traffic from the reopened freight depot at Ellesmere Port is not to block the Merseyrail Line and others in the area, this reopening is a very practical idea. Double tracking would be the best, but knowing how our political masters, always try and do all rail investment on the cheap (except in the London area), it will proberbly be only single track.

However, until the do something about the single track from Altrincham, through Navigation Road, until the line to Stockport diverges (sorry cannot remember the name of the juntion). The Mid Cheshire line will always have its capacity restricted, especially at the end which has most demend by passengers.

I think the line divergence past Navigation Road station where the line to Stockport diverges is the Deansgate Junction - Skelton Junction very tight radius track section.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Has the formation been preserved alongside the new Tesco on the old BICC site? I've not looked myself but I was under the impression that the cycle path is much narrower than what would be required for even a single line. I have to say I think the chances of CWJ -> Mouldsworth reinstatement are approximately zero.
It's good to see Quinn glass etc taking freight off the roads though.

The formation has been preserved I believe.

 

[Bevan Price]

I doubt that the line will reopen. Too expensive when the trains can run via existing routes at quiet times of night / day.

Bevan

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst Mouldsworth is mentioned, were there ever freight services using the line from Mouldsworth to Dee Marsh Junction in Wirral on a regular basis as part of the through route of a long distance service? If so, can you let me know, please.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Whilst Mouldsworth is mentioned, were there ever freight services using the line from Mouldsworth to Dee Marsh Junction in Wirral on a regular basis as part of the through route of a long distance service? If so, can you let me know, please.

There certainly were.
I have an LMR freight timetable from 1963 which shows a number of services from Dee Marsh/Shotwick Sidings eastwards:

0130 to Pratts Sidings 8H53 (Manchester somewhere)
0350 to Northwich 7H00
0400 to Cheadle Exchange Sidings 7H27 (empties)
0522 to Darfield/Cadeby/Cudworth Collieries 8E42 (from Bidston Dock)
0540 to Etruria 7H87
0635 to Northwich/Godley Jn 8K25
0730 to Avenue Sidings 7M78
0940 to Cudworth 7E64 (from Bidston Dock)
1805 to Newcastle Jn (North Staffs) 7H02
1835 to Wallerscote Sidings 7K41
1910 to Northwich 7K10
2010 to Wallerscote Sidings 8K41
2155 to Sheffield B Rd 6E25
2234 to Newcastle Jn 7H12
2355 to Heaton Mersey 7H25

There were also about 18 trains between Helsby WC and Mouldsworth, running from Birkenhead/Ellesmere Port/Stanlow to places like Chaddesden (Derby)/Nuneaton/Uttoxeter/New England/Trafford Park/Longbridge/Barnsley.

Very busy overall.
Some of these were routed via Middlewich, but most via Northenden.

Hope this helps.
Richard

 

[lancastrian]

I think the line divergence past Navigation Road station where the line to Stockport diverges is the Deansgate Junction - Skelton Junction very tight radius track section.

Thanks for that Paul. What is needed is for that section from Deansgate Junction, through to Altrincham to be double track. Even a short section of single track, especially one with a station on it restricts capacity, and this section is no different. Also it would be very useful if at least Cheadle Station was reopened on the section through to Stockport.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks for that Paul. What is needed is for that section from Deansgate Junction, through to Altrincham to be double track. Even a short section of single track, especially one with a station on it restricts capacity, and this section is no different. Also it would be very useful if at least Cheadle Station was reopened on the section through to Stockport.

The single track problem was more accentuated, when Manchester Metrolink opened from Altrincham to Manchester, causing the then direct Chester to Manchester train to divert onto this line to Stockport. Up to then, it served its purpose as a freight-only line, bi-drectionally signalled.

I believe that GMPTE, the predessors to TfGM, had an informal feasibility study of station re-openings on this line between Navigation Road and Stockport a few years ago, but nothing materialised. One of these stations was Cheadle and in 2009, the local Lib-Dems ran a campaign to try to re-open this station. Over the years, there have been many efforts to try to have a station in Cheadle opened, but the nearby presence of Gatley station on the electrified line to Manchester has been a problem for some schemes.

Historically. the CLC opened Cheadle station in February 1866 and it continued as such until July 1950, when it was re-named Cheadle North. It finally closed in November 1964. So nearly 50 years have now elapsed and many people there never remember that there was a station in the town.

 

[pemma]

Also it would be very useful if at least Cheadle Station was reopened on the section through to Stockport.

Reopening a station at Cheadle would cause problems because there is another single track section in that area. This used to be double track but the double track was removed to allow the Motorway to be built at a time when this was a freight only line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Reopening a station at Cheadle would cause problems because there is another single track section in that area. This used to be double track but the double track was removed to allow the Motorway to be built at a time when this was a freight only line.

I have just been on the A34 in the Cheadle area, in the vicinity of the complex M56/M60 junction which is remarkable for the fact that the Styal line crosses it north to south and there are two single-track lines running west to east on both sides of the complex. The line north of the complex is the freight-only line from Northenden Junction that goes through the Disley tunnel to the New Mills area. The line south of the complex is the Altrincham - Navigation Road - Stockport part of the Chester to Manchester mid-Cheshire line, that features on many threads, and is the line that Cheadle station was served by until its demise in November 1964, when it was then called Cheadle North.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The line south of the complex is the Altrincham - Navigation Road - Stockport part of the Chester to Manchester mid-Cheshire line, that features on many threads, and is the line that Cheadle station was served by until its demise in November 1964, when it was then called Cheadle North.

I don't think so. Cheadle North was on the now freight-only CLC route from Northenden Jn towards Cheadle Heath, while Cheadle South was on the LNWR link from Northenden Jn to Edgeley Jn (the current passenger route). Cheadle South closed much earlier and has totally vanished. It was situated on a steep embankment. If any station is reopened it would be Cheadle South, but it would be very expensive to rebuild anywhere near its original site.

Closed 1917
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheadle_LNW_railway_station

 

[pemma]

I have just been on the A34 in the Cheadle area, in the vicinity of the complex M56/M60 junction which is remarkable for the fact that the Styal line crosses it north to south and there are two single-track lines running west to east on both sides of the complex. The line north of the complex is the freight-only line from Northenden Junction that goes through the Disley tunnel to the New Mills area. The line south of the complex is the Altrincham - Navigation Road - Stockport part of the Chester to Manchester mid-Cheshire line, that features on many threads, and is the line that Cheadle station was served by until its demise in November 1964, when it was then called Cheadle North.

If a station was to be rebuilt at Cheadle (or Baguley for that matter) it would be on the line that passenger trains use currently between Navigation Road and Stockport.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If a station was to be rebuilt at Cheadle (or Baguley for that matter) it would be on the line that passenger trains use currently between Navigation Road and Stockport.

The line that bifurcates at Northenden Junction that passes the NEARER of the two routes to Gatley station, under the Styal line, is the line that the Altrincham to Stockport service uses. This is the line that a re-opened CHEADLE station would be on. It is on quite a steep embankment when it passes through Cheadle. From there it takes the junction at Edgeley junction into Stockport. That HAS to be the SOUTHERLY of the two single-line routes after the bifurcation at Northenden Junction IN THE CHEADLE AREA...check on your maps.

The northern freight-only line after the bifurcation at Northenden Junction, IN THE CHEADLE AREA, runs off at the former Cheadle Junction, passes the side of Morrison's supermarket and it is only near Stockport when it goes under the Altrincham to Stockport line

Now the time for profuse apologies to LNW-GW Joint:roll: My "Cheadle Station" mental database reverted into "reverse-stupid" mode. The station on the freight-only line is now a somewhat different establishment these days, catering for a different clientale....and YES, the station on the line carrying the Altrincham to Stockport line was closed in the far-off days of 1917.

Blessed are those who pontificate with ignorance, for they shall be corrected:roll:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Blessed are those who pontificate with ignorance, for they shall be corrected:roll:

No problem.
I'm quite capable of making mistakes too, usually big ones with job at stake...

Richard