MPs call for FGW to be re-nationalised

[Woody]

A campaign backed by 19 MPs, including South East Cornwall Liberal Democrat Colin Breed, has been launched in Parliament, urging ministers to investigate re-nationalising First Great Western's train services.
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/dis...me=yes&more_nodeId1=133174&contentPK=19269262

 

[devon_metro]

What garbage

 

[me123]

What garbage

Agree, although I can see where they're coming from.

 

[Dennis]

And what makes those 19MP's think a government department could run train services any better than FGW?

 

[ChrisCooper]

They are already run by the government anyway, infact I'd say the DfT has more direct control over the running of franchises today than they ever did in BR days. Many of the desisions on the FGW franchise and other new franchises (one, GNER, LM, EMT, XC and NXEC) are taken by the DfT, and it's likely that in any of the franchise battles there would be not much to choose between any of the companies bidding. The only benefit would be if the railways were run on a not for profit basis, but the savings would probably be wasted elsewhere.

 

[Woody]

I suspect this is more of a political stunt to draw the attention of government regards rails shortcomings in the Westcountry in the lead up to the next general election rather than any serious attempt at re-nationalisation and believe me there are shortcomings.

 

[mark7144]

I hope the MPs succeed but unfortunately I guess they won't.

 

[class 313]

I hope the MPs succeed but unfortunately I guess they won't.

Why? Like it has been said before, the DfT make most if not all the choices. so fGW are just puppets really...

 

[Woody]

Why? Like it has been said before, the DfT make most if not all the choices. so fGW are just puppets really...

Whoever is at fault the semi-privatised structure of the railways now mean that only political pressure can now effect change on the Westcountrys railways,particularly the further south west you go.

 

[Sprog]

Why? Like it has been said before, the DfT make most if not all the choices. so fGW are just puppets really...

Try scapegoats...........

 

[WessexWarrior]

And isn't it our illustrious Government who charge the TOCs so much that it makes them impossible to function regularly anyway?

 

[Nick W]

It's all the Government's fault for the intentions to reduce the subsidy they pay to the railways. No other country is trying to do this; and people should not tolerate this nonsense.

I'd urge people to boycott, find other ways to travel and generally vote with your feet as the Government is not responding to the views of even those newspapers with the best reputation which summarise the majority of the views of the nation.

 

[87015]

And isn't it our illustrious Government who charge the TOCs so much that it makes them impossible to function regularly anyway?

Maybe so, but the TOCs continue to sign up. Pretty sure they'd be handing back the keys if they weren't making a pretty penny out of it for themselves...

 

[Sprog]

Yes..but it is a company, and the aim of any company is to make money...........

The thing thats f**king it all up, is the fact that the Goverment are taking a stupidly large cut of the companies profits for their own use (roads etc). If they where not so greedy, this extra money could be used to make improvements/buy more rolling stock/boost services/employ more staff/lower fares etc, etc.

The company wont do it if it is not financially viable and why should it??, if it is meeting the minimalistic and stingy service requirement set by the Gov. it is happy..there is no encouragement for the company to do anything off its own back or out of its own pocket, this being worsened by how short the franchises are. So nothing will improve..just get worse as pennies continue to be pinched.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hopefully that last post made sense.........

 

[theblackwatch]

I'd urge people to boycott, find other ways to travel and generally vote with your feet as the Government is not responding to the views of even those newspapers with the best reputation which summarise the majority of the views of the nation.

The question is, would another party listen to the views and do better? Looking at past track records, I'm not convinced....

 

[southy39]

And what makes those 19MP's think a government department could run train services any better than FGW?

do you honestly think that the government wants to have to pay for the lease on all stock, for the refurbs, for all the other things....

remember this is the same government that while they are specifying the spec for the HST2
do not want to purchase them themself... as they dont want them showing up on the books.

besides they would actually have to work to earn any pay out rather than sitting back with their hand out

 

[mark7144]

Would prices come down if this went ahead? Because right now they are ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Woody]

Would prices come down if this went ahead? Because right now they are ****ing ridiculous.

Ryanair has just announced it is increasing the number of flights between Newquay and Stansted near London from five per week to two flights every day,this is on top of the current 5 flights a day by Air Southwest from Newquay to Gatwick and 1 daily British Airways flight to Gatwick.Against this backround FGW are going to increasingly struggle in these parts.
Was told by a Fgw source that passenger numbers are already falling from Plymouth and Cornwall as road and air links are improving at a much faster rate than rail.Dont have to be a genius to work out the Dfts hidden strategy in Devon/Cornwall.

 

[class 313]

do you honestly think that the government wants to have to pay for the lease on all stock, for the refurbs, for all the other things....

That's a very good point indeed. But then the DfT control what the TOCs do with the new stock and as we know in some cases, it would be a lot better if the DfT didn't...

 

[Turbostar]

Plus you've also got the flights from Plymouth as well.

Mart

 

[gingerheid]

Not like an MP to try and get some cheap publicity, is it? *rolls eyes*

 

[Metroland]

Here we go again...

Last time I looked they were dafting pacers into Devon and Cornwall because passenger numbers are swamping the trains.

Flights are generally irrelevant to all but London-Cornwall passengers, who have always formed a tiny minority of GWML passengers. And as we have discussed and discovered, there is no money saving and very little time saving advantage from flights.

Indeed the main problems are in the London area.

It's years of under investment that's the problem, and the main issue with nationalisation is what you can invest in limited by a limited treasury pot which has to have a high rate of return.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I

I'd urge people to boycott, find other ways to travel and generally vote with your feet as the Government is not responding to the views of even those newspapers with the best reputation which summarise the majority of the views of the nation.

What and give them a perfect excuse to spend less money?

It's voter power really. The NHS and Schools are vote winners, everything else can go to rot. Public transport has never been seen as a public service in the UK, unlike in Europe. It's our Anglo-Saxon bookish mentality with accounts and red tape. And there are far too many lazy sods that have never been on a train in 20 years and moan about it, or fear of Chavs are that perpetuated by the Daily Mail. It's a car cuture, like the US, and we are suffering the consequences.

 

[me123]

It's voter power really. The NHS and Schools are vote winners, everything else can go to rot. Public transport has never been seen as a public service in the UK, unlike in Europe. It's our Anglo-Saxon bookish mentality with accounts and red tape. And there are far too many lazy sods that have never been on a train in 20 years and moan about it, or fear of Chavs are perpetuated by the Daily Mail.

So you'd rather everyone was illeterate and dying because:

1) There's no healthcare
2) no-one is trained to provide healthcare anyway because they haven't been taught.

I hate to say this, but railways are relatively unimportant in the government's agenda, and so it should be with much more important issues to be looked at.

 

[Metroland]

I never said that.

But most people NEVER use the healthcare system one year to the next nor Schools. Not saying they are NOT important, but there are other things that are important to. Both energy and transport are vastly more important in most people's lives and they shouldn't be ignored.

 

[me123]

I never said that.

But most people NEVER use the healthcare system one year to the next nor Schools. Not saying they are NOT important, but there are other things that are important to. Both energy and transport are vastly more important in most people's lives and they shouldn't be ignored.

Well, I'd rather live and be a bit late for work now and then than be hit by a car and almost certainly die, but I think we have to agree to disagree here.

One thing I will say; Scotland are doing it right. Don't mean to boast, but the SNP (who I dodn't like a few months ago) have improved healthcare, transport, and are working on improving schools and safety. (In fact, Labour did a lot as well, but SNP have done most of it). Now, the SNP are discussing the controversial issue of nationalism, and others are beginning to think it's a good idea. I don't agree with them at this moment, but since devolution we seem to be doing a lot better than England.

nb: This is not an anti-English tirade; no offence is intended to anyone.

 

[Metroland]

Well if the energy and transport system collapses, there would be hardly anyone living in days, and no modern healthcare or education...that's a fact.

It's also a fact politicians are voters are prepared to spend 'what it takes' on Education and Health, whereas every other spending sector including policing, defence, environment, just about everything else has to get into get into line behind it. I'm not debating the rights and wrong of that, I'm merely making the point that in this country Education and Health get the lion's share of attention and spending by government - over £120 billion in actual fact. And other sectors, wrongly or rightly are seen as low priority.

 

[me123]

And still, there aren't enough doctors and class sizes of 30+ prevail. Scotland's government are tackling all major issues; Transport (Loads of new train lines), Crime (More police officers, although I'll admit they haven't fully met their promise here), Healthcare (Stopped Labour's closure of two important A+Es) and Schools (Planning classes of about 20, and recruitment of new teachers). Furthermore, they are making decisions on Power (I believe we're going nuclear).

And as for unimportant, where would you be without education? And where will the country be in 30 years time with sub-standard education? And heealthcare unimportant, tell that to people living in publically-funded care facilities, and people who survive on free prescriptions (legitiamtely, of course).

I'm not saying transport is unimportant, but I'd rather be well educated, safe and able to receive medical treatment if needed than be able to get a train to work. But everyone's different.

I don't want to get to argumentative here, but I fail to see why the SNP can do it in Scotland and Gordon Brown can't in England.

 

[Turbostar]

Here we go again...

Last time I looked they were dafting pacers into Devon and Cornwall because passenger numbers are swamping the trains.

Flights are generally irrelevant to all but London-Cornwall passengers, who have always formed a tiny minority of GWML passengers. And as we have discussed and discovered, there is no money saving and very little time saving advantage from flights.

Indeed the main problems are in the London area.

It's years of under investment that's the problem, and the main issue with nationalisation is what you can invest in limited by a limited treasury pot which has to have a high rate of return.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What and give them a perfect excuse to spend less money?

It's voter power really. The NHS and Schools are vote winners, everything else can go to rot. Public transport has never been seen as a public service in the UK, unlike in Europe. It's our Anglo-Saxon bookish mentality with accounts and red tape. And there are far too many lazy sods that have never been on a train in 20 years and moan about it, or fear of Chavs are that perpetuated by the Daily Mail. It's a car cuture, like the US, and we are suffering the consequences.

Hang on hang on, we got these Pacers, because OUR 158's were sent up North to replace them! It's always the bl***y same with the government, we have to give up our decent stuff for someone else, & in return we get their junk they don't want! And the govenrment wonder why passengers kick up a stink! It's enough to make your blood boil!

Mart

 

[Metroland]

@me123

Probably because of the vast amount of extra spending per head in Scotland compared to England, on the backs of English Tax payers, but that's a whole other argument. And North Sea oil peaked in 1999, so Scotland cannot survive on that as the SNP argue.

If you read what I say, I'm not arguing with you. We both agree that Transport and especially railways are seen as low priority for central government. Whether they should be is a whole different argument, we may well disagree with.

We all rely on the transport system every day, even if that's for delivery of food and getting people to work that keep the economy going. Without transport you don't have a modern economy an can only support a fraction of the population we have in the country.

However how much spending goes on that system to keep it working is up for debate. If you read what I said, I'm not making a case to spend money on West country railways at the expense of local schools and hospitals, I'm saying that the latter is what people want money spent on, despite the transport system being much more important than people think. It's that lack of investment is why you have problems with transport in this country.

 

[Tom]

Hang on hang on, we got these Pacers, because OUR 158's were sent up North to replace them! It's always the bl***y same with the government, we have to give up our decent stuff for someone else, & in return we get their junk they don't want! And the govenrment wonder why passengers kick up a stink! It's enough to make your blood boil!

Mart

Check one thing.

South West is majorly Lib Dem, where the units have gone is Labour.