My idea for Coronavirus bonus for low paid key workers

[Butts]

No , I don't mean a bottle of pop from the 1970's

Would it be a nice gesture if The Government were to reward low paid employees (£10 hour or less) who have struggled to get to work often on Public Transport with the associated risks involved to provide vital services for us during the pandemic.

A lot of these workers are getting far less than furloughed employees being paid for by The Government or Employers sitting on their arses doing nothing at home.

How about a monkey or an NI or Tax Rebate.

Are we altruistic enough to consider this ?

 

[Bantamzen]

It would be a great idea, although I wouldn't necessarily restrict it to those on under £10 per hour but to all key workers. However there is a problem, a £300-350 billion problem (not to mention another possible £200 billion that a certain other project ongoing might cost this year).

Personally I would prefer that NHS staff get priority, and rather than a bonus get a proper wage rise that reflects the work they actually do. Funding that will still be a huge challenge, but would make more sense because the NHS staff really are the ones that have been at the sharp end.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think bringing the care system into the NHS and professionalising it must be a higher priority than even the NHS as it stands. Even without COVID there was going to be a massive care crisis coming up - it just isn't viable as a private business.

 

[Butts]

It would be a great idea, although I wouldn't necessarily restrict it to those on under £10 per hour but to all key workers. However there is a problem, a £300-350 billion problem (not to mention another possible £200 billion that a certain other project ongoing might cost this year).

Personally I would prefer that NHS staff get priority, and rather than a bonus get a proper wage rise that reflects the work they actually do. Funding that will still be a huge challenge, but would make more sense because the NHS staff really are the ones that have been at the sharp end.

I set the bar deliberately low to encompass Care Assistants , Cleaners, Security Guards and the like. These people in addition to low pay have poor pensions and often no proper sick pay - just SSP. The NHS is much better paid and has sick pay and a good pension.

I'm not saying they don't deserve a good pay rise , but most of them earn far more than my £10 ceiling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think increasing SSP to either full pay or only just below it (90%?) would be a good start. COVID is showing just why it's a really bad idea to encourage sick people to come to work.

How about a mandatory statutory sickness insurance scheme to pay for it? Small companies would find it hard, but if we shared that out it would be more viable.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It woud be nice, but...it isn't going to happen

The government recently announced a pay freeze for the NHS so there is no hope for anyone else

But I wouldn't be surprised if they awarded themselves a performance-related pay rise for their "expert handling of the pandemic"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those who have actually done that (rather than the policiticians) e.g. Chris Whitty probably do!

 

[AM9]

I think increasing SSP to either full pay or only just below it (90%?) would be a good start. ...

So what would be the ceiling of this 90% of full pay SSP

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what would be the ceiling of this 90% of full pay SSP

My suggestion would be that there is no ceiling. It would only be slightly below so people are not incentivised to pull a sickie. It would be paid for by way of a compulsory insurance policy paid for based not on your risk but a proportion of your income.

I'm in favour of many of this kind of thing, because it makes small business owners' lives easier and encourages more small business.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How would this work for the low-paid who are probably already struggling to make ends meet?

 

[Smidster]

The government recently announced a pay freeze for the NHS so there is no hope for anyone else"

That simply isn't true.

Pay for AfC staff increased in April in line with the 3-year pay award. We don't know what will happen next year yet - everything is media speculation.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Pay for AfC staff increased in April in line with the 3-year pay award.

Of a fashion. Pay went up 1.7%. RPI in April was 2.6%. So, actually, NHS staff got a real terms pay cut.

 

[underbank]

My suggestion would be that there is no ceiling. It would only be slightly below so people are not incentivised to pull a sickie. It would be paid for by way of a compulsory insurance policy paid for based not on your risk but a proportion of your income.

I'm in favour of many of this kind of thing, because it makes small business owners' lives easier and encourages more small business.

Who do you propose will pay for the insurance policy? It's hardly likely to encourage small business if you expect them to pay yet another "employment tax" on top of employers NIC, employers liability insurance, etc etc. Just another cost of employment that will encourage businesses to take on "self employed" staff to avoid such employment costs.

I do think it was a very big mistake to stop businesses being able to reclaim SSP from HMRC, so that they had to bear the full costs of the SSP paid to staff. It makes no sense.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Of a fashion. Pay went up 1.7%. RPI in April was 2.6%. So, actually, NHS staff got a real terms pay cut.

Exactly

Give with one hand and take (more) with the other

And there is unlikely to be any further pay rises in 2021 as every taxpayer in the land pays back the massive government deficit accrued with the furlough scheme

 

[xc170]

With the global recession we're about to enter, I highly doubt many people will be seeing any kind of bonus for some time.

 

[Butts]

With the global recession we're about to enter, I highly doubt many people will be seeing any kind of bonus for some time.

Royal Mail are paying a £200 bonus to "shop floor" workers.

 

[Smidster]

Of a fashion. Pay went up 1.7%. RPI in April was 2.6%. So, actually, NHS staff got a real terms pay cut.

In fairness it varies by how long you have been in the NHS.

The 1.7% is for those at the top of Band - others will have got more (plus potentially pay progression)..The 1.7% also inflates the increase for people at ToB as they got a bonus last year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Royal Mail are paying a £200 bonus to "shop floor" workers.

I guess they (and other couriers) will have a bit of extra income from increasing home delivery.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 1.7% is for those at the top of Band - others will have got more (plus potentially pay progression)

My understanding is that it was across the board, except for those at the bottom of band one, who got more due to the changes to NMW.

Funny you mention pay progression. That was abolished as part of the pay award. It is now "discretionary" and, as the GMB point out, it's amazing how often "budget" is being used to refuse awards regardless of appraisal.

This all follows eight years of pay freezes and below-inflation pay rises, all in the name of "austerity" that didn't apply to the bosses (especially the political appointees!) and the politicians. Not to mention the withdrawal of bursaries which now means student nurses have to pay nine grand a year for the privilege of working unpaid in hospitals tuition and work-based learning.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

In fairness it varies by how long you have been in the NHS.

The 1.7% is for those at the top of Band - others will have got more (plus potentially pay progression)..The 1.7% also inflates the increase for people at ToB as they got a bonus last year.

Pay progression through the bands is dependent on satisfying certain KPIs (key performance indicators). And those at top of band don't get any further pay rises except for the miniscule cost of living every April. Yes, some may have got a bonus but that will be it now for the next few years

 

[Butts]

So as I suspected this thread has become bogged down by Middle Class NHS grading angst with little consideration for the targets of my proposal.

How about increasing SSP from £95pw to the Living Wage of about £260 pw as suggested by some Unions ?

Poor workers would then be able to self isolate without the fear of penury.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So as I suspected this thread has become bogged down by Middle Class NHS grading angst with little consideration for the targets of my proposal.

How about increasing SSP from £95pw to the Living Wage of about £260 pw as suggested by some Unions ?

Poor workers would then be able to self isolate without the fear of penury.

SSP shouldn't be higher than normal pay, that would be silly. It should however be either full pay or maybe a very small amount (a few %) below it as an incentive not to "pull a sickie".

 

[underbank]

SSP shouldn't be higher than normal pay, that would be silly. It should however be either full pay or maybe a very small amount (a few %) below it as an incentive not to "pull a sickie".

Perhaps the 80% of the person's prior average wage would be a good figure (just like Furlough). But, trouble is, who pays for it? At the moment, employers, even the smallest, have to pay SSP with no refund from HMRC. They used to get it refunded back but the rules were changed a few years ago. If employers have to foot the bill, or need to pay insurance for it, then they'll be even less inclined to take on employees and more inclined to use temps, zero hours contracts, self employed, freelancers, etc.

 

[Butts]

SSP shouldn't be higher than normal pay, that would be silly. It should however be either full pay or maybe a very small amount (a few %) below it as an incentive not to "pull a sickie".

You do realise SSP is £95 per week ?

Someone working 35 Hours per week on NMW of £8.72 = £305.20

Notice the huge disparity- SSP is not even a third of the amount an employee on minimum wage normally receives !!

Hence their disinclination to self isolate.

 

[Butts]

Perhaps the 80% of the person's prior average wage would be a good figure (just like Furlough). But, trouble is, who pays for it? At the moment, employers, even the smallest, have to pay SSP with no refund from HMRC. They used to get it refunded back but the rules were changed a few years ago. If employers have to foot the bill, or need to pay insurance for it, then they'll be even less inclined to take on employees and more inclined to use temps, zero hours contracts, self employed, freelancers, etc.

The Government could pay for it at least on a temporary basis while the pandemic is going on. It's morally reprehensible they are paying people sat on their arses more the low paid Key Workers who are still having to work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You do realise SSP is £95 per week ?

Someone working 35 Hours per week on NMW of £8.72 = £305.20

Notice the huge disparity- SSP is not even a third of the amount an employee on minimum wage normally receives !!

Hence their disinclination to self isolate.

Yes, that was exactly the point I was making.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Government could pay for it at least on a temporary basis while the pandemic is going on. It's morally reprehensible they are paying people sat on their arses more the low paid Key Workers who are still having to work.

The reason that had to be done (and I would support doing it with the dole or some form of mandatory unemployment insurance as well as sick pay and indeed furlough) is that the purpose of it is to stop people going bankrupt. You can (just about) live on a couple of minimum wages plus applicable benefits. You can live very well indeed on ten times that. But if you live on ten times that, and suddenly your income drops to minimum wage, you are going to end up bankrupt in very short order and potentially even on the streets. It's not possible to step your spending down that much that quickly, and if you are in a high wage, high spend situation your savings will soon disappear.

If you need a big "step down" you are going to need at least 6 months to do it - sell your house and car for a start.