My idea for electrification of the West of England Line

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Nothing wrong with a 450 to Exeter, I'd be up for it lol.

I'm fairly sure that even if the line was electrified SWR wouldn't be that cruel!

This from the SWR Repaints and Refurbishments thread has got me thinking...

Are there any plans for the WofE Line to be refurbished at some point? And if so what rolling stock would it use? 444s would be ideal, but there wouldn't be enough. 350/4s cascaded from TPEX would be a good addition to the fleet maybe, but there are only 10. Would it even be third rail or overhead wiring?

 

[Polarbear]

I can't see the West of England line being electrified any time soon. Also, if it ever were done, I suspect it would be 25Kv from Basingstoke westward with some dual voltage stock procured for it.

Given the present government's love of all things bi-mode, I think it's much more likely that a Class 800 clone will be sourced once the 158s & 159s are life expired.

 

[HowardGWR]

If the SWR Exeter line is meant by the query, there are no plans for 'refurbishment' with electric supply, either OHLE or any other method.

I don't see that what stock would be used belongs in this forum.

 

[Lrd]

TPE 350/4s are going to London North Western

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

TPE 350/4s are going to London North Western

Yes, I forgot about that!

 

[D365]

New electrification schemes won't be progressing until the mid-2020s.

/thread

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The extremely logical first step would be extending the third rail to Salisbury, enabling the Waterloo-Basingstoke semi fasts to be extended, permitting a 3tph timetable with only one diesel path per hour. But of course, third rail isn't safe (just look at all the thousands of deaths per year!) and costs an absolute fortune (not like GWEP which is an absolute bargain) so of course it can't happen.

 

[3141]

I can't see the West of England line being electrified any time soon. Also, if it ever were done, I suspect it would be 25Kv from Basingstoke westward with some dual voltage stock procured for it.

Given the present government's love of all things bi-mode, I think it's much more likely that a Class 800 clone will be sourced once the 158s & 159s are life expired.

It has been reported that Stagecoach's unsuccessful bid for the South Western franchise included bi-modes for the WoE line.

Obviously, electrification won't happen during the current SWR franchise, and it's unlikely to be a high priority after that. I don't really see in-fill projects making it possible. You might in-fill Basingstoke to Salisbury and the lines through Romsey, but Salisbury to Exeter is less likely. Either bi-modes or EMUs that are diesel loco-hauled west of Basingstoke seem the most realistic prospect. On one of the threads about 442s when most people believed their destination displays said "Scrapyard" I suggested electrification for about a mile west of Worting Junction and a reversing siding where the locos could attach and detach. By the end of the current franchise the 159s will be 32 years old, so something will need to be done during the mid-2020s, but bi-modes seem the simplest answer.

 

[Starmill]

Are you aware that electrification was considered and rejected for:

Selby to Hull
Oxenholme to Windermere
Kettering to Sheffield
Cardiff Central to Swansea

And that work has been suspended on:

Oxford to Didcot Parkway
Bath Spa to Bristol Parkway via Bristol Temple Meads

Now keep in mind the schemes currently still "on track":

Maidenhead to Cardiff Central
Reading to Newbury
Manchester stations to Blackpool North via Bolton
Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street
Croy and Falkirk to Alloa and Dunblane
Cumbernauld to Grangemouth
Bolton to Wigan
Barnt Green to Bromsgrove
Walsall to Rugeley Trent Valley

Proposals are also due for the TransPennine Route Upgrade, these may or may not include electrification.

Now, after all of those where do you think Worting Jn to Exeter St Davids might fit in? How many trains and passengers traverse the route? How many new trains and of what type would be required, and what benefits might this have in terms of releasing the other stock? What would the effect on journey times and running costs be and critically, is the track layout and other infrastructure in a condition suitable for the long term (before electrification which makes long term changes more difficult) is considered? Then, what type of electrification would you be proposing to use and why? Would that create any problems and how might they be solved?

Only once you have considered all of those things can you answer questions about the interior layout of the rolling stock would be like. I am not saying this is a bad idea, I am merely saying that you might be able to think of some of the answers to questions in this thread yourself by looking at it in this way.

Edit: PS it's also worthwhile looking at historic schemes like:
Cambridge to Kings Lynn (1992)
Redditch to Lichfield Trent Valley (1993)
Leeds and Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley and Skipton (1994)
London Paddington to Heathrow Airport (1994)
(those were pre-privatisation though, so of limited relevance)
Kidsgrove to Crewe
Glasgow Central to Paisley Canal
Springburn to Cumbernauld
Glasgow Central to Whifflet
Manchester stations to Edge Hill via Newton-le-Willows

Were they successful? What could make them better? Who provided funding and why were they authorised?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Now keep in mind the schemes currently still "on track":

Maidenhead to Cardiff Central
Reading to Newbury
Manchester stations to Blackpool North via Bolton
Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street
Croy and Falkirk to Alloa and Dunblane
Cumbernauld to Grangemouth
Bolton to Wigan
Barnt Green to Bromsgrove
Walsall to Rugeley Trent Valley

Proposals are also due for the TransPennine Route Upgrade, these may or may not include electrification.

You forgot GOBLIN !

 

[Starmill]

You forgot GOBLIN !

Apparently so did the OP I had to write that post entirely from memory so I think I did a pretty darn good job! But yes include that too.

 

[jopsuk]

Ideally every line* would be getting electrified, with the southern region brought into the 25kV fold. But the various delays and cost over runs of recent projects coupled with government cut backs in spending make this much less likely. We'd also need more and more sustainable power generation.

*yes, even the West highland, Kyle and Far North lines.

 

[Starmill]

Ideally every line* would be getting electrified, with the southern region brought into the 25kV fold.

I completely agree, this is the solution. There is no doubt in my mind about that. However, it doesn't seem that the people with the money agree with us, does it?

 

[swt_passenger]

The last thread (of many) about wiring this line was only in September:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...electrification-retitled.153673/#post-3120376

It would be really good if people did a quick search whenever they have a brilliant "new idea" that they think they are the first to come up with...

 

[Elecman]

Hasn’t Lostock Jct to Wigan been killed off too, other than the necessary wire run after Lostock Jct to cater for a driver of an electric train taking a wrong route?

 

[snowball]

Hasn’t Lostock Jct to Wigan been killed off too, other than the necessary wire run after Lostock Jct to cater for a driver of an electric train taking a wrong route?

Its state is not known for certain but I suspect it survives. Nothing official has been said about it for a very long time. It was not included in the schemes that Grayling killed in July. I believe it's due to complete GRIP 3 around the end of the year (same as trans-Pennine).

 

[Ianno87]

Hasn’t Lostock Jct to Wigan been killed off too, other than the necessary wire run after Lostock Jct to cater for a driver of an electric train taking a wrong route?

I don't think there has been an official statement about whether this scheme survives.

I understand that the run-off also extends to include the expensiveish bit to cover the Neutral Section that will be necessary for the line towards Wigan, which is at least one chunk of cost of the books.

The rest of the route is blessed with not having too many major structures to deal with - the overbridges adjacent to Westhoughton, Hindley and Ince stations will probably be trickiest.

 

[Mag_seven]

Bearing in mind that routes that were already earmarked for electrification have been ditched, why on earth would DAFT etc consider electrifying any other route?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Lets be realistic, it'll be 158's / 166's for years to come.

Should the line ever be electrified then overheads should be installed from Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour, Bristol Parkway to Weston Super Mare, Frome to Paddington and dare I say Portishead to Severn Beach via Clifton Down and Bristsol Temple Meads which would finally see some of the West of England finally electrified. This would finally see the class 166's shunted off to the North to replace then then knackered class 150's and 158's and replaced with some Electrostar derived unit formed of five coaches.

 

[Starmill]

Lets be realistic, it'll be 158's / 166's for years to come.

In another decade, the 158 / 159 fleet will be between 36 and 39 years old. I can't imagine they will really be suitable for life extension beyond this point.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In another decade, the 158 / 159 fleet will be between 36 and 39 years old. I can't imagine they will really be suitable for life extension beyond this point.

By which time the Government may finally spend some cash on the much needed electrification in the South West, long enough units that are at least five cars long to try and attempt to combat overcrowding as well as extending platforms at certain stations so that they can take up to ten car units should the solution that is spltting and attaching units at key stations e.g. Westbury.

I will admit this also does apply to the North too, but as the thread is about the South West I'm keeping on topic.

 

[Starmill]

To me, 10 years sounds like far too optimistic a timescale for electrification of Basingstoke to Exeter St Davids via Salisbury.

 

[Suraggu]

It has been reported that Stagecoach's unsuccessful bid for the South Western franchise included bi-modes for the WoE line.

Obviously, electrification won't happen during the current SWR franchise, and it's unlikely to be a high priority after that. I don't really see in-fill projects making it possible. You might in-fill Basingstoke to Salisbury and the lines through Romsey, but Salisbury to Exeter is less likely. Either bi-modes or EMUs that are diesel loco-hauled west of Basingstoke seem the most realistic prospect. On one of the threads about 442s when most people believed their destination displays said "Scrapyard" I suggested electrification for about a mile west of Worting Junction and a reversing siding where the locos could attach and detach. By the end of the current franchise the 159s will be 32 years old, so something will need to be done during the mid-2020s, but bi-modes seem the simplest answer.

Yes Stadler Flirt UK Bi-Modes were looked at by the Stagecoach bid team for the WoE. The next refurb with the 158/159 is likely to be its last under Salisbury depot allocation, with the likelihood Bi-modes will appear during the next franchise. Mind you there are substantial rumours about a 159 being a testbed for conversion to a Diesel Electric multiple unit.

 

[JohnR]

It should be noted that the BTC first mooted electrification of this line (at 25kV) along with Waterloo-Weymouth in 1957. I believe that when Buckhorn Weston tunnel was relaid in the late 50s, the track was lowered to accommodate this potential scheme, but nothing else was done.

 

[The Ham]

As things stand there's currently two trains per hour of between (normally) 6 to 9 coaches between Salisbury (often Yeovil) and even then during the off peak there's times when there's not many spare seats. However after Crossrail 2 that's likely to increase to three trains per hour (which is probably what it should already be).

As such it is likely to become of more importance to electrify as time passes.

As someone else suggested once the wires reach Salisbury extending the Basingstoke Stoppers would enable local passengers (i.e. those going no further than Woking) to have a choice of services, it could also mean that what are the current services could skip some of the minor stations.

Personally the goal should be to get the wires to Yeovil, as then you could have over a the hour period 1 DMU Exeter to Waterloo, 1 EMU Yeovil to Waterloo, 1 DMU Exeter to Westbury via Yeovil timed to meet 1 EMU Yeovil to Waterloo and then 1 EMU Yeovil to Waterloo. With the same service pattern in reverse.

That would give you 1 direct journey in one hour with 1 journey involving a change at Yeovil in the following hour.

It would significantly reduce the number of DMU's (or bimodal's or whatever other self powered trains could be used) that would be needed.

It's a shame that various electrification projects going wrong have lead to the state that we are currently in, as Would guess that there wouldn't be too many people complaining of "London's cast off" if they were getting a load of 159's.

 

[Starmill]

Oh, I forgot to mention the Shotts line electrification too. I'm really not doing very well haha.

 

[Elecman]

I don't think there has been an official statement about whether this scheme survives.

I understand that the run-off also extends to include the expensiveish bit to cover the Neutral Section that will be necessary for the line towards Wigan, which is at least one chunk of cost of the books.

The rest of the route is blessed with not having too many major structures to deal with - the overbridges adjacent to Westhoughton, Hindley and Ince stations will probably be trickiest.

I doubt that they will install Neutral Section equipment, much more likely just and end of run insulators to the final stay.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If they are going to do any sort, it should be boosting the supplies to handle the maximum number of trains that the signalling can handle at 12 cars (or whatever the max length possible is), an example being Weymouth-Poole for boosting to allow 12 cars. There's probably other locations (3rd rail or OLE) that have power supplies not capable of supporting the maximum number of trains that the signalling can handle, all at the max length that the track formation allows

 

[Starmill]

12 car trains between Weymouth and Poole!? Are they really going to be neccesary?

 

[MatthewRead]

Yes Stadler Flirt UK Bi-Modes were looked at by the Stagecoach bid team for the WoE. The next refurb with the 158/159 is likely to be its last under Salisbury depot allocation, with the likelihood Bi-modes will appear during the next franchise. Mind you there are substantial rumours about a 159 being a testbed for conversion to a Diesel Electric multiple unit.

Where are there rumors about converting a 159 to electric are they actually taking into consideration Natalie Bennet's plan to equip all diesels
with electric battery equipment :P