My idea for Horse Trams in Oxford Street

[306024]

Getting back on topic, how many horses would you need for this? Each horse can only pull a single tram car, and since (quite rightly) TfL would insist on high welfare standards, managable loads and short working shifts for the horses, I can rapidly see this getting very expensive indeed.

And that is before the horse union, the Associated Society for Horse Integrated Transport get involved, demanding extra carrots etc. You could double head (literally) for extra horse power though.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There's also the "waste disposal" problem.

The waste can be recycled in the capitals parks and excess sold as 'Genuine London Horse Manure' at a fiver a bag.

Carrots can be sold at £2 a bag for tourists to feed the horses making them fuel efficient.

Their use would guarantee a future for some of the rapidly diminishing heavy horse breeds.

It would fit in with the mayor's aim to cut diesel emissions.
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And that is before the horse union, the Associated Society for Horse Integrated Transport get involved, demanding extra carrots etc. You could double head (literally) for extra horse power though.

A single horse used to cope with a double deck car easily enough in Douglas.
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And that is before the horse union, the Associated Society for Horse Integrated Transport get involved, demanding extra carrots etc. You could double head (literally) for extra horse power though.

Horses could be sponsored and be dyed in corporate advertising - wouldn't even have to dye one for the Lloyds Bank all over advertising horse.

 

[yorkie]

T
A single horse used to cope with a double deck car easily enough in Douglas.

But not allowed to any more. If they use a double decker now they're double headed.

 

[jumble]

But not allowed to any more. If they use a double decker now they're double headed.

If you have a look at You Tube from last weekend you will see that this is not the case ( they do have double headers on the Okell tram and I had the great privilage in riding on one of the rounds the week before last)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voZCapiQHbQ&list=PLAJO_nrenaXEXxRReInObB4ZDYygdgltk

Only the second time in more than 100 years apparently
Word form the island was that there was not much chance that the Horse trams were ever going to close in reality and it certainly looks likely that they are back to stay

 

[Master29]

If Sadiq Khan was to become enthused with the idea, then they could well happen, though maybe not in Central London. I'm sure he could persuade Wrightbus or whoever to produce some prototypes.

wouldn`t there be a hint of irony there given Boris`s so called Routemaster remake.

 

[Busaholic]

wouldn`t there be a hint of irony there given Boris`s so called Routemaster remake.

Precisely the reason I dragged Wrightbus into it

 

[Antman]

What you can or cannot 'build' a trolleybus route with is irrelevant. Trolleybuses are not happening in the UK, and for good reason.

As much as I'd love to see trolleybuses in London having just missed them first time around they clearly have had their day and have been superseded by hybrids and fully electric buses.

 

[Busaholic]

As much as I'd love to see trolleybuses in London having just missed them first time around they clearly have had their day and have been superseded by hybrids and fully electric buses.

Maybe they have had their day, but exactly the same thing was being said in this country about trams 25/30 years ago. It is almost impossible to predict what will happen in ten years time: the modern trolleybus is not necessarily dependent on running along wires for the whole route. It's strange that the railway industry, by contrast, is fixated with the idea that electrification can only happen under wires!

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe they have had their day, but exactly the same thing was being said in this country about trams 25/30 years ago. It is almost impossible to predict what will happen in ten years time: the modern trolleybus is not necessarily dependent on running along wires for the whole route. It's strange that the railway industry, by contrast, is fixated with the idea that electrification can only happen under wires!

More like 70-80 years for trams - Metrolink has been running for nearly 25 years so at 25-30 years we were around the start of the UK tram revival.

A modern trolleybus without wires is essentially a battery bus, which is what is being talked about as the alternative!

There are plenty of options being discussed in the industry and on this forum for alternatives to overhead rail electrification. Unfortunately most of them are technical or financial dead ends.

 

[Busaholic]

More like 70-80 years for trams - Metrolink has been running for nearly 25 years so at 25-30 years we were around the start of the UK tram revival.

.

I quite deliberately chose the period prior to Metrolink's inauguration as its success was by no means guaranteed, and many transport 'experts' were then of the opinion that, even if it should prove successful, it didn't follow that other tram systems should be given the go-ahead: in other words, the orthodox thinking of the 1950s and 1960s that led to the abandonment of all extant networks other than Blackpool was still in place. Metrolink, like DLR, was very savvy in using old railway lines for the bulk of the route in the first instance.

On the subject of a UK tram revival, I would say that revival is stalled: only Nottingham and Manchester are making real progress and absolutely no new systems are seriously planned anywhere. Alastair Darling approved none of the tram schemes that went to him for consideration, and his way of thinking now seems to pervade governmental thinking.

 

[edwin_m]

I quite deliberately chose the period prior to Metrolink's inauguration as its success was by no means guaranteed, and many transport 'experts' were then of the opinion that, even if it should prove successful, it didn't follow that other tram systems should be given the go-ahead: in other words, the orthodox thinking of the 1950s and 1960s that led to the abandonment of all extant networks other than Blackpool was still in place. Metrolink, like DLR, was very savvy in using old railway lines for the bulk of the route in the first instance.

On the subject of a UK tram revival, I would say that revival is stalled: only Nottingham and Manchester are making real progress and absolutely no new systems are seriously planned anywhere. Alastair Darling approved none of the tram schemes that went to him for consideration, and his way of thinking now seems to pervade governmental thinking.

There was a veritable flurry of tram proposals in the mid-90s so I'd say trams were very much in favour then - not only in the UK but the revival in such previously anti-tram countries as France and the USA started around the same time.

I agree most of those schemes never came to anything, but would point out that Midland Metro has recently extended into Birmingham with a further extension under construction and more likely to follow. Even Edinburgh appears to be reviving the idea of continuing to Leith.

 

[Busaholic]

There was a veritable flurry of tram proposals in the mid-90s so I'd say trams were very much in favour then - not only in the UK but the revival in such previously anti-tram countries as France and the USA started around the same time.

I agree most of those schemes never came to anything, but would point out that Midland Metro has recently extended into Birmingham with a further extension under construction and more likely to follow. Even Edinburgh appears to be reviving the idea of continuing to Leith.

I don't think we are in serious disagreement. The Birmingham extension from Snow Hill seemed to take forever, but this is, unfortunately, par for the course in city centre line-building in the UK. Trams are marvellous in my estimation, which is why I don't want ill-conceived schemes to foul things up for the projects that really should see the light of day. Oxford Street could signal the end of anything else being built here for twenty years imo if ever given the go-ahead.