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My occupation renders me not disabled enough to achiever a higher PIP award

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Bayum

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I disagreed with a PIP assessment earlier in the year and with my consultant we went through and picked out areas we both disagreed with from a clinical viewpoint and an independent living viewpoint from me. I received my reconsidered assessment back today and have been told the evidence from my consultant and myself is in stark contrast to my occupation as a teacher.
‘Whilst the further medical evidence from your consultant reports significant difficulties with moving, taking nutrition and managing therapy, this is not consistent with your ability to work as a full time teacher and ability to drive a manual car’.
How low are government willing to stoop before they acknowledge these ridiculous inadequacies for PIP assessment in the country? It beggars beyond belief.
 
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yorkie

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The ability to work as a teacher isn't relevant; for example I know a teacher who requires the use of a wheelchair and an assistance dog. I'd talk with your Union and MP.
 

Bayum

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The ability to work as a teacher isn't relevant; for example I know a teacher who requires the use of a wheelchair and an assistance dog. I'd talk with your Union and MP.

Oh, I know this. I’m just demonstrating the depths they will stoop to to avoid having to pay anything.
 

Tetchytyke

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Get down your local CAB.

The problem with PIP is they moved the goalposts from DLA. Now you're assessed using any adaptive aids you might have. You're also assessed according to specific criteria; if you meet them you get points, and with enough points you get PIP. You pretty much need to go through each descriptor in turn at any appeal.

The Mandatory Reconsideration stage (where the DWP look again at their decision, and is compulsory before an appeal) is, and always has been, a sham designed to put people off.
 

DarloRich

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I disagreed with a PIP assessment earlier in the year and with my consultant we went through and picked out areas we both disagreed with from a clinical viewpoint and an independent living viewpoint from me. I received my reconsidered assessment back today and have been told the evidence from my consultant and myself is in stark contrast to my occupation as a teacher.
‘Whilst the further medical evidence from your consultant reports significant difficulties with moving, taking nutrition and managing therapy, this is not consistent with your ability to work as a full time teacher and ability to drive a manual car’.
How low are government willing to stoop before they acknowledge these ridiculous inadequacies for PIP assessment in the country? It beggars beyond belief.

I do have some sympathy with that position especially when I have seen people in my family who are completely unable to work due to a disability, acquired working in heavy industry, denied ANY support. They aren't working and aren't driving a nice car and are barely keeping a roof over their heads. They are on the bread line and struggling to perform basic human tasks. We had to work extremely hard to ensure they received some funding and a great deal of persistence was required to beat the appeals system. The lesson we learnt was this: Don't give up. That's what they want you to do and that's what the systems is deigned to make you do. Don't give in or you will sink.

I want to be absolutely clear: I am not suggesting, in any way, you are not entitled to seek this funding (I don't know you, your history and wouldn't presume to decide) but simply want to point out there are others in a much worse state ( or at least visibly worse acknowledging much disability is "hidden") denied funding. The system is broken and vulnerable people are being let down.

(BTW I feel I have to add that because every time I disagree with the prevailing mentality I am criticised as being some kind of heartless b'stard)
 

SteveP29

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My partner got DLA for 10 years. That ran out in April this year.
She had to apply for PIP by the end of January to qualify for no disruption in change from DLA to PIP at the beginning of May.
Despite not being able to work for 4 years, despite having a cavernous angioma, despite having nerve pain allevaited by Pregabalin (a Class C controlled substance), ADHD, controlled by a schedule 2 controlled drug, FND including facial tics, daily tremors in the right side and non epileptic seizures, she scored zero points after the application and face to face assessment (where the assessor stared at the computer screen for 90% of the time, claimed a rapport had built up with my partner during the assessment), she failed the memory test (although the assessor said she passed it) and she didn't touch my partner in the physical assessment (which she also apparently passed).

Her tribunal is next Friday and we are being represented by CAB

The Mandatory Reconsideration stage (where the DWP look again at their decision, and is compulsory before an appeal) is, and always has been, a sham designed to put people off.

We were told to get representation from our MP after being turned down on MR. The volunteer in our MP's office said that in their experieince MR is worthless, as they don't look at any further evidence that you submit, they look at the same evidence that was originally submitted plus the assessors assessment, as you say, a sham.

The system is designed to make you give up and accept that you' aren't going to get the benefit you're entitled to.
I hate this government with a passion and it's got worse over the course of 9 years, to the point that blatantly lying about something isn't even challenged.
 

Tetchytyke

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We were told to get representation from our MP after being turned down on MR. The volunteer in our MP's office said that in their experieince MR is worthless

In all my years in the sector, I can count on one hand the number of MRs I've won. Appeals, on the other hand...
 

AlterEgo

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I disagreed with a PIP assessment earlier in the year and with my consultant we went through and picked out areas we both disagreed with from a clinical viewpoint and an independent living viewpoint from me. I received my reconsidered assessment back today and have been told the evidence from my consultant and myself is in stark contrast to my occupation as a teacher.
‘Whilst the further medical evidence from your consultant reports significant difficulties with moving, taking nutrition and managing therapy, this is not consistent with your ability to work as a full time teacher and ability to drive a manual car’.
How low are government willing to stoop before they acknowledge these ridiculous inadequacies for PIP assessment in the country? It beggars beyond belief.

I have significant sympathy with you. They should not take into consideration your occupation. Being a teacher is not something reserved to the completely able.

I receive PIP for mobility yet play football regularly and travel on planes 100 times a year as a video maker. I think their reasoning in your case is utterly outrageous.
 

Busaholic

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I'd just like to point out, as someone over pensionable age who has recently been diagnosed with Primary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis, which I admit is an extremely late age to be so diagnosed. that not only am I not entitled to apply for PIP, but neither can I apply for Disabled Living Allowance, which has not been available for new claimants since the coalition government changed the rules in 2013 (DLA is theoretically still available for children.) The Motability scheme is also closed forever to new entrants. Happily, I am still able to drive, but my need for a small automatic car is pressing, and I cannot afford a reliable one, my state pension being my only income. The MS Society is very good at providing information and support, but I was devastated after the diagnosis to read their booklet on 'MS and Benefits', because I thought there must be pages missing for the elderly living independently, and intending to do so for as long as possible. There is something called Attendance Allowance which could have been invented by a Trumpian government, but then I guess we have the equivalent of that with the odious IDS and his 'reforms'. There is no mention in all the information/notes/forms the Dept of Work and Pensions sends out of any appeal process, implying there isn't one, but I gather there is.

None of this is downplaying the original post, by the way, or the supporting posts, but just to illustrate the extent to which the current government stoops in its pandering to the 'stand on your own two feet' lobbyists, invariably with private means or 'trust funds.'
 

ainsworth74

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I received my reconsidered assessment back today and have been told the evidence from my consultant and myself is in stark contrast to my occupation as a teacher.

@Arctic Troll is on the money with what they say on this. Appeal. I can count on one hand how many Mandatory Reconsiderations I've won and yet the overwhelming majority of those that I've lost we've then gone on to win at appeal. You should approach your local Citizens Advice for assistance or a local Welfare Rights Unit (usually they sit within your local Council but sadly not all have them).

To be honest you've done quite well to clearly have someone actually read your extra evidence. Usually they don't bother and just copy/paste the same as what went out originally just with a phrase like "We've looked at your claim again and we still cannot award you..." at the front.
I'd just like to point out, as someone over pensionable age who has recently been diagnosed with Primary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis, which I admit is an extremely late age to be so diagnosed. that not only am I not entitled to apply for PIP, but neither can I apply for Disabled Living Allowance, which has not been available for new claimants since the coalition government changed the rules in 2013 (DLA is theoretically still available for children.)

You should make a claim for Attendance Allowance (AA) as that is the disability benefit for people over pension age. Your local Citizens Adivce should be able to assist you with the application if required. Disability Living Allowance, when it was for adults as well, was never available for pensioners they've always had to claim Attendance Allowance. Sadly AA lacks a mobility component unlike DLA or PIP (and always has done). I believe the basis being that all pensioners end up with reduced mobility. But that doesn't change that many people in their late 60s (and 70s even) would expect to be almost as fit and mobile as those in their late 50s but if something did happen to their mobility they wouldn't be able to get support whilst those in their 50s would. It's clearly unfair but it's always been that way.

The Motability scheme is also closed forever to new entrants.

Motability remains open to new entrants however you must receive the highest rate of the mobility component of PIP or DLA. Sadly those are not available to you if you're over pension age.
 

ainsworth74

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If you're looking for some help I'd recommend MSE as there's some very knowledgeable people there:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

I would always strongly advise people to seek independent advice from a reputable organisation like Citizens Advice or a local Welfare Rights Unit or other charity that works in the sector. I do not wish to cast aspersions on the good people of MSE but an organisation like that will always offer more surety as to the quality of advice being given than MSE.
 

DarloRich

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I would always strongly advise people to seek independent advice from a reputable organisation like Citizens Advice or a local Welfare Rights Unit or other charity that works in the sector. I do not wish to cast aspersions on the good people of MSE but an organisation like that will always offer more surety as to the quality of advice being given than MSE.

very sensible advice. CAB will be snowed under but they are good people land will offer any help they can.
 

Busaholic

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@Arctic Troll is on the money with what they say on this. Appeal. I can count on one hand how many Mandatory Reconsiderations I've won and yet the overwhelming majority of those that I've lost we've then gone on to win at appeal. You should approach your local Citizens Advice for assistance or a local Welfare Rights Unit (usually they sit within your local Council but sadly not all have them).

To be honest you've done quite well to clearly have someone actually read your extra evidence. Usually they don't bother and just copy/paste the same as what went out originally just with a phrase like "We've looked at your claim again and we still cannot award you..." at the front.


You should make a claim for Attendance Allowance (AA) as that is the disability benefit for people over pension age. Your local Citizens Adivce should be able to assist you with the application if required. Disability Living Allowance, when it was for adults as well, was never available for pensioners they've always had to claim Attendance Allowance. Sadly AA lacks a mobility component unlike DLA or PIP (and always has done). I believe the basis being that all pensioners end up with reduced mobility. But that doesn't change that many people in their late 60s (and 70s even) would expect to be almost as fit and mobile as those in their late 50s but if something did happen to their mobility they wouldn't be able to get support whilst those in their 50s would. It's clearly unfair but it's always been that way.



Motability remains open to new entrants however you must receive the highest rate of the mobility component of PIP or DLA. Sadly those are not available to you if you're over pension age.
But there are no new entrants to DLA, excepting children whose eligibility for Motability might not be looked upon favourably! Actually, I know of one woman in her late 60s, badly injured in a car crash a couple of decades ago, who has just been informed she will lose her Motability car shortly.

I've applied for Attendance Allowance, but I'm pretty sure I won't get the higher rate, which was the aim of the wretched IDS in applying these 'reforms.' I'm not prepared to grovel or exaggerate my condition, in fact my natural predisposition is to make personal light of things, which doubtless didn't help me in the making of my diagnosis.

Got to say, encouraged nay demanded by my lovely MS nurse, I applied for a blue badge, which arrived within a fortnight, and had actually been issued a week before I received it. But, of course, a blue badge produces more or less no direct financial benefit these days for the vast majority of holders!
 

ainsworth74

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But there are no new entrants to DLA, excepting children whose eligibility for Motability might not be looked upon favourably!

The qualifying criteria for the Motability scheme are as follows:
  • The higher rate of the mobility component of Disability Living Allowance; or
  • The higher rate of the mobility component of Personal Independence Payment; or
  • Armed Force Independence Payment; or
  • War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement.
If you receive one of those above benefits then you can apply for to the Motablity scheme and I assure you that PIP, DLA and AFIP are all open to new claimants who meet the relevant criteria for those three benefits. Obviously in the case of DLA it would be the parent not the child that would get the Motability car! But that doesn't change the fact that the scheme is open to new applicants.

Actually, I know of one woman in her late 60s, badly injured in a car crash a couple of decades ago, who has just been informed she will lose her Motability car shortly.

That sounds like an award of DLA or PIP which is coming up for renewal. If she renews the claim then there is no reason why her Motability car should be lost. Alternatively it is possible that a renewal has already taken place and the DWP have removed her entitlement to the relevant benefit in which case she could challenge the decision and if successfully regain her car.

In any event I would advise you to advise her to seek advice from a local advice agency as there's no particular reason why she should lose her car.

I've applied for Attendance Allowance, but I'm pretty sure I won't get the higher rate, which was the aim of the wretched IDS in applying these 'reforms.' I'm not prepared to grovel or exaggerate my condition, in fact my natural predisposition is to make personal light of things, which doubtless didn't help me in the making of my diagnosis.

Actually my experience has been that Attendance Allowance are for more prone to making rational decision than DLA or PIP. I can't recall the last time it was necessary to challenge a decision made by AA. Meanwhile the number of decisions that have to be challenged regarding DLA and PIP grows ever longer.

I'm not sure that you're required to grovel (even if it perhaps feels like that to some) or exaggerate your condition. Simply be honest and don't make light of the difficulties that your health condition raises when it comes to taking care of yourself.
 

yorkie

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... do not wish to cast aspersions on the good people of MSE ....
It may be that the people in that area of MSE are knowledgeable, but based on the incredibly poor advice I have recently corrected in their "Public Transport" section, I would certainly not count on it, therefore I agree with you that people should seek advice from the other sources you mention.
 

richw

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A good friend got rejected on the basis she was assessed On a ‘good day’
21/28 days she is housebound and needs help with basic tasks, 1-2 days a week she is able to fully function and do everything herself.
She seemed to be judged entirely on the assessment and none of her doctor and consultants supplied information
 

Tetchytyke

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She seemed to be judged entirely on the assessment and none of her doctor and consultants supplied information

That is exactly what the DWP do. Everything is based on the "expert" assessment.

There is a reason why approximately 70% of appeals against DWP decisions are found in the claimant's favour.
 

Tetchytyke

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Actually, I know of one woman in her late 60s, badly injured in a car crash a couple of decades ago, who has just been informed she will lose her Motability car shortly.

DLA and PIP awards are renewed every few years, with DLA claimants being moved on to PIP, and a *lot* of people lose part or all of their benefits at this time. The decision should always be appealed; about 70% of appeals go against the DWP.

In your friend's case, if she decides to reapply for Attendance Allowance rather than appealing, then she won't get the mobility component and so won't be allowed a Motability car.

It's a national disgrace but that's Tories for you.
 

SteveP29

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A good friend got rejected on the basis she was assessed On a ‘good day’
21/28 days she is housebound and needs help with basic tasks, 1-2 days a week she is able to fully function and do everything herself.
She seemed to be judged entirely on the assessment and none of her doctor and consultants supplied information

My partner had her assessment at 9:30am, 2 hours after she'd taken her ADHD medication (daily, rest of life prescription), so she was bright and alert. If the assessment had been after 3 or 4pm, that wouldn't have been the case.
The 'expert' assessor (medically qualified apparently, but hadn't heard of or could spell cavernoma) saw her in a snapshot of her best part of the day, seemed to ignore the medical evidence from her GP, Neurologist and Psychiatrist
 

ainsworth74

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The 'expert' assessor (medically qualified apparently, but hadn't heard of or could spell cavernoma) saw her in a snapshot of her best part of the day, seemed to ignore the medical evidence from her GP, Neurologist and Psychiatrist

Ah yes an easy mistake to make. You see the assessor is a trained disability analyst who has a detailed understanding of the impact of heath conditions on people's functional ability. Meanwhile GPs and similar are only concerned with the diagnosis of conditions so are not well placed to make such judgements.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, I have actually seen the above almost word for word in a letter from the DWP to a Tribunal.
 

Tetchytyke

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Yes, I have actually seen the above almost word for word in a letter from the DWP to a Tribunal.

It's the standard justification for ignoring medical evidence from the client's clinicians. It's there because they have to say something. Clearly nonsense, but they have to play the game.

Clearly the Tribunals don't agree, otherwise the DWP wouldn't have a 30% success rate!
 

ainsworth74

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It's the standard justification for ignoring medical evidence from the client's clinicians. It's there because they have to say something. Clearly nonsense, but they have to play the game.

Clearly the Tribunals don't agree, otherwise the DWP wouldn't have a 30% success rate!

I haven't seen them say it in exactly those terms for a little while now (they seem to just bleat on about their "trained disability analyst" without bashing actual medical professionals) but it did used to be rife. I rather suspect they realised that rubbishing GPs when Tribunal panels often include GPs was not a path to success :lol:
 

DarloRich

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Question: Is it not right for the government to challenge people and ensure they are eligible for a hand out.

Question: Is that not fair that the government wants people who are able to do so to work and contribute to society rather than living on handouts?

Question: Is it not right that people who are shirking are found out and made to work?

After all, that handout is money that I have worked hard for taken out of my pocket to be given to other people who aren't working. I want to know that they are not extracting the urine.

Edit - I am, obviously, being deliberately provocative to make a point. I best add that!
 

SteveP29

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Her tribunal is next Friday and we are being represented by CAB

SHE WON!
Original decision disregarded.
From 0 points for Daily Living to 11
And from 0 points for Mobility to 10

She will now get Standsrd Rate Daily Lubing & Mobility backdated to April.

It's a long and frustrating journey, but if you find yourself in it, appeal it as far as you can if they turn you down
 

ainsworth74

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Congratulations :)

I had a similar victory this week which went all the way back to December 2017. Makes a massive difference to people it's just criminal that we all (as taxpayers) have to spend so much money on the DWP making terrible decisions and having them overturned let alone the massive impact on claimants mental health.
 

talltim

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Question: Is it not right for the government to challenge people and ensure they are eligible for a hand out.

Question: Is that not fair that the government wants people who are able to do so to work and contribute to society rather than living on handouts?

Question: Is it not right that people who are shirking are found out and made to work?

After all, that handout is money that I have worked hard for taken out of my pocket to be given to other people who aren't working. I want to know that they are not extracting the urine.

Edit - I am, obviously, being deliberately provocative to make a point. I best add that!

Yes, but.
A: the present system of ignoring people’s evidence, then ignoring it again before having the decision overturned must cost a fortune in wasted time of DWP employees.
B: the most vulnerable are the most likely to give up.
C: many of those claiming have already paid their fair share of tax, and some such as the OP still do.
 

Busaholic

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The qualifying criteria for the Motability scheme are as follows:
  • The higher rate of the mobility component of Disability Living Allowance; or
  • The higher rate of the mobility component of Personal Independence Payment; or
  • Armed Force Independence Payment; or
  • War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement.
If you receive one of those above benefits then you can apply for to the Motablity scheme and I assure you that PIP, DLA and AFIP are all open to new claimants who meet the relevant criteria for those three benefits. Obviously in the case of DLA it would be the parent not the child that would get the Motability car! But that doesn't change the fact that the scheme is open to new applicants.



That sounds like an award of DLA or PIP which is coming up for renewal. If she renews the claim then there is no reason why her Motability car should be lost. Alternatively it is possible that a renewal has already taken place and the DWP have removed her entitlement to the relevant benefit in which case she could challenge the decision and if successfully regain her car.

In any event I would advise you to advise her to seek advice from a local advice agency as there's no particular reason why she should lose her car.



Actually my experience has been that Attendance Allowance are for more prone to making rational decision than DLA or PIP. I can't recall the last time it was necessary to challenge a decision made by AA. Meanwhile the number of decisions that have to be challenged regarding DLA and PIP grows ever longer.

I'm not sure that you're required to grovel (even if it perhaps feels like that to some) or exaggerate your condition. Simply be honest and don't make light of the difficulties that your health condition raises when it comes to taking care of yourself.
Actually, you confirm exactly what I said, that DLA is only open to new child applicants (under 16 I believe), so being awarded that higher rate would make you eligible for Motability, which I'm delighted is still continuing for this group at least. There is no way that anyone over pension age can now apply for Motability, even someone on the higher Attendance Allowance rate. Of course, higher rate of DLA also make one eligible for a blue badge, although, on a personal level, mine came through incredibly quickly, but then that doesn't involve any money from government coffers, if you'll excuse my cynicism.
 
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