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My opinion: children are safer if they are attending school

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6862

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Something I have been wondering - with all the talk of schools not being ready for June 1st reopening, and their claims that it won't be safe, why don't they just aim to be ready by then anyway (adapting classrooms etc.), regardless of whether they get the final go ahead to open then? That way they will be ready for any later reopening date anyway. Contingency planning seems to be quite acceptable in any other area of society wanting to recover from the damage of the lockdown, but for some reason teaching unions seem to be unwilling to consider any aspect of reopening (publically at least).

I recognise that individual schools and teachers may be doing their best to prepare, but it seems that the unions and councils are doing their best to prevent it!
 
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farleigh

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Something I have been wondering - with all the talk of schools not being ready for June 1st reopening, and their claims that it won't be safe, why don't they just aim to be ready by then anyway (adapting classrooms etc.), regardless of whether they get the final go ahead to open then? That way they will be ready for any later reopening date anyway. Contingency planning seems to be quite acceptable in any other area of society wanting to recover from the damage of the lockdown, but for some reason teaching unions seem to be unwilling to consider any aspect of reopening (publically at least).

I recognise that individual schools and teachers may be doing their best to prepare, but it seems that the unions and councils are doing their best to prevent it!
Yes - I think the resistance is from Unions and not the schools. Most schools I know are fully preparing for June 1st.
 

thejuggler

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Schools are already preparing classrooms and doing the risk assessments.

SAGE reports are now published. Uncertain about impact of schools opening, greater danger is how wider population reacts. Once schools go back if people think life is 'normal', ignore social distancing etc risk of spike is increased. Under all scenarios if R is close to 1 (0.7 at the moment) it could go above very quickly if social distancing not adhered to.

BTW SAGE modelled 9 scenarios, Government approach is to cut their own furrow.
 

Andy Pacer

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Will be interesting to see what happens if they do make it for June 1st, but then there are issues and whether the schools then close, or if they continue but with no further pupils. And will potentially isolated issues in a small number of schools determine what happens across the board.
 

johnnychips

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The mayor of Doncaster recommended today that schools do not open on June 1st. This was put on Facebook so I had a look at the comments. Three quarters were from females and roughly split equally:

- the mayor is Labour, so she is just point-scoring against the government
- I will not send my child back until I am convinced there is no way they will catch this virus
- we need to get back to work, children are low risk, if we aren’t careful people are going to get used to being sat on their a**e all the time

So not too different from this forum? No, I do value the usually considered comments on here, and we usually tolerate divergent opinions.
 

Mogster

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Interesting, Starmer suddenly seems to have come off the fence regarding school reopening. Apparently his children have never stopped attending school.


Sir Keir Starmer's children have been able to go to school during the coronavirus pandemic, the Labour leader has disclosed as he urges Boris Johnson to work with parents and unions to build a consensus for primaries to reopen in England next month.

The Labour leader said in an interview today that he knew the importance of keeping children in education because his son and daughter had both attended local state schools in his north London constituency during the lockdown as Sir Keir's wife Victoria is a key worker in the National Health Service.
 

yorkie

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Interesting, Starmer suddenly seems to have come off the fence regarding school reopening. Apparently his children have never stopped attending school.
...
That's good to hear; hopefully it will reduce the political point-scoring (I'm still vowing never to vote for Rachael Maskell though!)
The mayor of Doncaster recommended today that schools do not open on June 1st. This was put on Facebook so I had a look at the comments. Three quarters were from females and roughly split equally:

- the mayor is Labour, so she is just point-scoring against the government
- I will not send my child back until I am convinced there is no way they will catch this virus
- we need to get back to work, children are low risk, if we aren’t careful people are going to get used to being sat on their a**e all the time

So not too different from this forum? No, I do value the usually considered comments on here, and we usually tolerate divergent opinions.
True, though I do struggle to respect an opinion that falsely claims to be acting in the best interests of children.
 

Busaholic

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Yes - I think the resistance is from Unions and not the schools. Most schools I know are fully preparing for June 1st.
I think the main resistance will be from PARENTS. A primary school headmaster was on 'Today' programme this morning explaining that he and (most of) his staff were looking forward to their school reopening, so long as they were able to incorporate the social distancing measures recommended, but in an online poll of each year's parents, there were no parents of the youngest group, and only one in the next group up, who were prepared to contemplate sending their children back AT THIS STAGE. The numbers increased as the children got older, but never got above 50%. In view of the mixed messages coming not only from the media, but some health experts being equivocal at best, it's really no surprise. The arrogance of one D. Cummings will not add to public confidence.
 

yorkie

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Yes some parents have lost all sense of perspective and are not being pragmatic, probably due to scaremongering by the media and the powerful 'stay home' campaign. :(
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes some parents have lost all sense of perspective and are not being pragmatic, probably due to scaremongering by the media and the powerful 'stay home' campaign. :(

There'll also be that quite a few people will be quite enjoying being paid 80% of their salary (at what is quite a cheap time) to sit at home watching the telly. The comments that people are getting addicted to furlough have a lot of truth.
 

Busaholic

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There'll also be that quite a few people will be quite enjoying being paid 80% of their salary (at what is quite a cheap time) to sit at home watching the telly. The comments that people are getting addicted to furlough have a lot of truth.
I can't see the relevance of that to children returning to school, though. In fact, I'd have thought it'd be people spending all day watching the telly (or posting messages on forums :) ) who might rather welcome children being out from under their feet, but, despite that, they haven't been persuaded of the safety of it. Do NOT assume I hold that view myself, though, but then I'm hardly in a position to be having to come to a decision any more than I believe you are.
 

507021

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It's a convenient excuse for someone to use not to be able to go back to work and to ask their company to keep them on furlough, was more my point?

Employees don't ask for furlough. They may volunteer for it, like I did, but the ultimate decision about whether an employee is granted furlough is down to the employer. When Arriva tell me to go back to work, then I will, as that's where I'd rather be.
 
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Hadders

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I think it's important for children to return to school but I can't help but think we've got the strategy a bit wrong.

I'm a school Governor at a Primary School and a huge amount of work is going into making sure that the school is a safe environment for when children return. It won't be business as usual though:

Arrangements will be made to observe social distancing in classrooms but this means the number of children that can be accommodated will be less than half of the usual number
Because of this children will be spread across more class rooms and are unlikely to be taught by their usual teacher
Due to the number of classrooms and teachers available children will attend on 2 days (e.g. Monday and Tuesday, with others attending on Thursday and Friday leaving Wednesday for deep cleaning as the groups of children changeover and for teachers PPA)
Each class will be set up as a bubble with specific teachers and support assistants. People (staff and children) won't be able to mix between bubbles.
Start and finish times will be staggered by bubble. Each bubble will have a different break time. A packed lunch will be provided and eaten in the classroom to avoid children mixing between bubbles.
Social distancing in operation in the classrooms so separate tables, no group carpet time etc.
Children of key workers can continue to attend 5 days a week - this will be a separate buble
There will be staff who are isolating because they are showing symptoms or they are in vulnerable groups so there is a risk (particularly in smaller schools) that there will be closures due to staff shortages.
If a child or member of staff shows symptoms of the virus they will be removed immediately (and if a child placed into isolation while waiting to be collected by parents). The whole bubble (staff and children) will not attend school for 7 days.

There is far more than what I've said above but this is the main gist. One thing that no-one's really talking about is the effect on children. The Government want Reception, year 1 and year 6 pupils to return. Year 6 is fair enough, they are old enough to understand what is going on but reception and Year 1 children are 4-6 years old - they probably aren't going to understand what's going on, getting them into the new routines will potentially be difficult. Many will be scared. Staff will have to keep a distance rather than comfort and reassure as they would normally do.

What will a 4 year old think when they see a teacher wearing a face mask, they can't play with their friends, have to sit on a separate table, can't sit on the carpet for a story, can't use the iPads they're used to etc etc.

I'm not against schools going back but I think the older children should be prioritised.
 

Ianno87

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Yes some parents have lost all sense of perspective and are not being pragmatic, probably due to scaremongering by the media and the powerful 'stay home' campaign. :(

My impression is that it's a minority of parents, but a very, very vocal minority.
 

Huntergreed

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My impression is that it's a minority of parents, but a very, very vocal minority.
Indeed, so vocal to the point where several local authorities are threatening to disregard the government advice of reopening schools through fear of upsetting this minority, which includes a small number of teachers and terrified parents. One scroll down Facebook comments shows comments such as:

I’m not sending my children back to school until there’s a vaccine, the government are trying to kill my children to make money
If one single child or teacher dies after schools go back, the government should be charged with homicide and shut down. I’m not sending my kids back because the virus will kill off the school!

And my personal favourite

Johnson is wanting to send kids back to school to kill them off for population control! Look at the number of people dying everyday from the virus, if he thinks I’m going to sacrifice my ******* children to line his pockets then he can ************

The views from this minority are concerning and it’s going to be very difficult to convince them to stop being so scared of the virus and start being more rational. We really do need to get children back as soon as possible but even if schools are opened it’s quite likely kot many kids will go back because of parents not thinking rationally.
 

Bletchleyite

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The views from this minority are concerning and it’s going to be very difficult to convince them to stop being so scared of the virus and start being more rational. We really do need to get children back as soon as possible but even if schools are opened it’s quite likely kot many kids will go back because of parents not thinking rationally.

This, of course, will ease safe reopening because there will be fewer kids turning up! So why not just ignore them and get on with it for now? Once furlough ends they will have a choice - work and send kids to school, or don't work and be poor.
 

Ianno87

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This, of course, will ease safe reopening because there will be fewer kids turning up! So why not just ignore them and get on with it for now? Once furlough ends they will have a choice - work and send kids to school, or don't work and be poor.

Or don't send your kids to school and watch them lose out on education and development compared to everybody else.
 

Hadders

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This, of course, will ease safe reopening because there will be fewer kids turning up! So why not just ignore them and get on with it for now? Once furlough ends they will have a choice - work and send kids to school, or don't work and be poor.

Yes, economics are going to come into play at some point. When the parents have to go to work to maintain the roof over their heads then the kids will have to go to school.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Are these the sort of scenes we want to see in this country? The psychological damage to young minds is worse than just keeping them home !


Parents and teachers have reacted with horror at photos of a school playground in France.

The heartbreaking photograph was taken at a nursery school and shows children sitting alone in their own playground ‘isolation sections’.

It was taken in the northern town of Tourcoing, on the Belgium border, and shows a group of boys and girls being kept away from each other using squares marked out in chalk.
 

NorthOxonian

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Are these the sort of scenes we want to see in this country? The psychological damage to young minds is worse than just keeping them home !

Unfortunately it's something we do need to consider. For example, I heard some discussion that teachers might have to wear masks. Absolutely not. That might work at secondary, but would be damaging to the younger children in primary schools who need the facial cues to form a bond with their teachers.
 

Ianno87

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Are these the sort of scenes we want to see in this country? The psychological damage to young minds is worse than just keeping them home !

Balance that with my 3 year old who hasn't seen his nursery friends at all for 8 weeks now. He's never said things like "I'm sad" before, which he is saying now.
 

Bletchleyite

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Are these the sort of scenes we want to see in this country? The psychological damage to young minds is worse than just keeping them home !

The scenes I've seen overall don't seem dissimilar (barring the playground) to schools say 100 years ago - classrooms weren't full of toys etc back then. Would we say they (corporal punishment aside) caused psychological damage? I doubt it. Kids are incredibly resilient. They will accept the explanation ("so you don't catch a nasty bug that is only around for a short while") without question.
 

Skimpot flyer

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The scenes I've seen overall don't seem dissimilar (barring the playground) to schools say 100 years ago - classrooms weren't full of toys etc back then. Would we say they (corporal punishment aside) caused psychological damage? I doubt it. Kids are incredibly resilient. They will accept the explanation ("so you don't catch a nasty bug that is only around for a short while") without question.
Not if they have the fear of other children, no help or comfort when they fall over, as in the nightmare scenario described in this video...

 

Ianno87

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Not if they have the fear of other children, no help or comfort when they fall over, as in the nightmare scenario described in this video...

This is likely to be irrelevant for my son's nursery, who will adopting a "bubbles" approach. I.e. small groups of 6-8 kids kept contained with one or two teachers who have no contact with other teachers or groups. The kids will be encouraged not to closely interract but not "punished" if they do. And teaches will be able to assist if they have any tumbles (but they will be inside only and bot using the outside garden/playground)
 
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