My proposed coastway/Solent changes

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pompeyfan

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Hi all, I'd like your opinions on my suggestions below.

1st of all, would class 313s be more suitable on the Solent stopper? Their capacity would be more suited as its a quiet route. Even on a peak time departure there were plenty of spare seats. Also, I'd wager that the acceleration on a 313 is better then a 450(as well as a 377) Cut the service back to fratton, and you've saved a unit, which could be used elsewhere.

2nd, change the timetable pattern on the coastway. 1 fast tph from Portsmouth and Southampton calling only at Havant, chi, barnham, Worthing, shorham and hove. Then the p&s/s to l'hampton can be all stations, and the littlehampton to Brighton service can also be all stations, done

Finally, merge the Solent service into southern or the coastway into swt to give better compatability.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Would the stopping service changes affect any station's service levels or journey times? Without being able to check it does look like it may.

Is there really a need for mass change down on the West Sussexc Coast?
 

Drsatan

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Hi all, I'd like your opinions on my suggestions below.

1st of all, would class 313s be more suitable on the Solent stopper? Their capacity would be more suited as its a quiet route. Even on a peak time departure there were plenty of spare seats. Also, I'd wager that the acceleration on a 313 is better then a 450(as well as a 377) Cut the service back to fratton, and you've saved a unit, which could be used elsewhere.

2nd, change the timetable pattern on the coastway. 1 fast tph from Portsmouth and Southampton calling only at Havant, chi, barnham, Worthing, shorham and hove. Then the p&s/s to l'hampton can be all stations, and the littlehampton to Brighton service can also be all stations, done

Finally, merge the Solent service into southern or the coastway into swt to give better compatability.
I think you'd also have issues with pathing attempting to run two fast trains an hour east of Farlington Junction. As there are two FGW services from Brighton departing at 0900 and 1700 (not on Sundays) plus two FGW services to Brighton on weekdays, I think it would be very difficult to path them unless a passing loop was installed somewhere.

AFAIK the Portsmouth & Southsea - Littlehampton train is all-stations anyway.

However, if the bay platform at Chichester was reinstated I'd support running an hourly or half-hourly (depending on unit availability) all-stations service to Portsmouth Harbour, meaning that Pompey Direct services wouldn't have to stop at Bedhampton, and the West Coastway service could run semi fast to Chichester calling only at Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Havant & Emsworth
 

adtrainz

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Just a couple of my concerns with these ideas.

2nd, change the timetable pattern on the coastway. 1 fast tph from Portsmouth and Southampton calling only at Havant, chi, barnham, Worthing, shorham and hove. Then the p&s/s to l'hampton can be all stations, and the littlehampton to Brighton service can also be all stations, done
Lots of problems with this. Emsworth and Southbourne would lose all of their Brighton services, and they are needed. Cosham and Fareham, two key stations, lose the Brighton service (unless this was an error?) There are also many people who use the semi-fast Brighton services to travel between smaller stations between Littlehampton and Brighton, and reducing this service back to only the hourly stopper wouldn't have very good effects.

Finally, merge the Solent service into southern or the coastway into swt to give better compatability.
IMO This simply wouldn't work. The coastway is in the heart of Southern territory at one end, and it may be in SWT land at the far end, but with Southern running the London services, it would be a logistical pain. The Solent service is in SWT land, and merging it into Southern would simply be, well, odd. It might work if merged with another Southern stopping service, but it would take too much time/units.



 

pompeyfan

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Would the stopping service changes affect any station's service levels or journey times? Without being able to check it does look like it may.

Is there really a need for mass change down on the West Sussexc Coast?
It wouldn't change service levels, but would lengthen journeys to Brighton from the smaller stations, but the major benefits come from improving times from soton/Pompey to Brighton. The link at the min is an hour and half stopping service, or a 4 hour bus journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would the stopping service changes affect any station's service levels or journey times? Without being able to check it does look like it may.

Is there really a need for mass change down on the West Sussexc Coast?
It wouldn't change service levels, but would lengthen journeys to Brighton from the smaller stations, but the major benefits come from improving times from soton/Pompey to Brighton. The link at the min is an hour and half stopping service, or a 4 hour bus journey.
 
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1st of all, would class 313s be more suitable on the Solent stopper? Their capacity would be more suited as its a quiet route. Even on a peak time departure there were plenty of spare seats. Also, I'd wager that the acceleration on a 313 is better then a 450(as well as a 377) Cut the service back to fratton, and you've saved a unit, which could be used elsewhere.
Cutting the service back to Fratton wouldn't leave enough time to turn the unit around, Southampton Central to Fratton is booked as a 56min journey and has a 6 min layover in Southampton. Only way to cut it back to 2 units would be to turn it around at Fareham using the little used platform 2. This would mean a connecting service from Portsmouth would have to be sorted though.

This service can be very busy, especially in the morning peak arriving into Southampton just before 9am.
 

pompeyfan

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I'm take on all of the points made, in regards to the Solent service, if the 313 had better acceleration then a desiro then I was hoping this would allow a turn around at fratton. In regards to a fast Brighton service I meant to include fareham in the stopping pattern, but cosham could change at Havant? The idea of Replacing the semi fast service was because capacity is tight, and a fast and semi fast to Brighton would cause a problem, and I don't think demand is there for both to be fair.
 

465fan

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Hi all, I'd like your opinions on my suggestions below.

1st of all, would class 313s be more suitable on the Solent stopper? Their capacity would be more suited as its a quiet route. Even on a peak time departure there were plenty of spare seats. Also, I'd wager that the acceleration on a 313 is better then a 450(as well as a 377) Cut the service back to fratton, and you've saved a unit, which could be used elsewhere.

2nd, change the timetable pattern on the coastway. 1 fast tph from Portsmouth and Southampton calling only at Havant, chi, barnham, Worthing, shorham and hove. Then the p&s/s to l'hampton can be all stations, and the littlehampton to Brighton service can also be all stations, done

Finally, merge the Solent service into southern or the coastway into swt to give better compatability.
Erm, the Portsmouth to Southampton service should stay with SWT because of where the units are stabled. I think all of these services should run through to Portsmouth Harbour vice Southsea. The 450s are fine here. If you put a 313 on it, you add a non standard fleet to SWT. Also, if you cut it to Fratton, people have to change trains - not what you want.

The services along the West Coastway, I think, are very well done. The Brighton to Hove shuttles, the Brighton to West Worthing and Brighton to Seaford services should all be operated by 313s, because you actually need to think about toilets! Those services are the shortest, Southampton or Portsmouth would be too long without a toilet.

I'd consider the following for Southern
The Victoria to Southampton service runs fast from Chichester to Havant.
The Victoria to Portsmouth service calls at semi-fast stations, such as Southbourne and Bosham.
The Brighton to Southampton service calls at the same semi-fast stations as the Victoria to Portsmouth.
The Brighton to Portsmouth service runs fast from Chichester to Havant.
The Littlehampton to Portsmouth service runs through to the Harbour, calling at all stations, and is the only one of these services to be operated by a 313.
 

ushawk

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Erm, the Portsmouth to Southampton service should stay with SWT because of where the units are stabled. I think all of these services should run through to Portsmouth Harbour vice Southsea. The 450s are fine here. If you put a 313 on it, you add a non standard fleet to SWT. Also, if you cut it to Fratton, people have to change trains - not what you want.

The services along the West Coastway, I think, are very well done. The Brighton to Hove shuttles, the Brighton to West Worthing and Brighton to Seaford services should all be operated by 313s, because you actually need to think about toilets! Those services are the shortest, Southampton or Portsmouth would be too long without a toilet.

I'd consider the following for Southern
The Victoria to Southampton service runs fast from Chichester to Havant.
The Victoria to Portsmouth service calls at semi-fast stations, such as Southbourne and Bosham.
The Brighton to Southampton service calls at the same semi-fast stations as the Victoria to Portsmouth.
The Brighton to Portsmouth service runs fast from Chichester to Havant.
The Littlehampton to Portsmouth service runs through to the Harbour, calling at all stations, and is the only one of these services to be operated by a 313.
I agree with this, although id maybe keep the Littlehampton stopper to terminate at PMS as im not sure there is enough space at PMH.
 

465fan

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You'd be wrong. 450's certainly go like the clappers.
I believe this to be correct, the Siemens 450s and 360s have some form of high acceleration technology built in which actually makes them accelerate a greater rate than the best of BR's builds.
 

pompeyfan

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I believe this to be correct, the Siemens 450s and 360s have some form of high acceleration technology built in which actually makes them accelerate a greater rate than the best of BR's builds.
oh right, i didn't have any technical data to back this up, it just felt that the 313s got up to speed quicker, maybe it's because you can feel them notch up?
 

swt_passenger

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oh right, i didn't have any technical data to back this up, it just felt that the 313s got up to speed quicker, maybe it's because you can feel them notch up?
None of the 444/450s use their full acceleration capability, they are limited to prevent overloading the third rail power supply.

The project in the mid 2000s to beef the DC system up (for the introduction of slam door replacement trains all over the 'Southern') was a compromise based on minimising infrastructure costs, the 375s and 376s etc are all 'governed down' compared to what they could do if fully unleashed...
 
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