Mystery Deltic from 1978 or 1979

[Jenny2021]

In S1 Ep2 of 'Yes Minister' a Deltic is briefly seen taking a sleeper train out of Kings Cross but the question is which one was it?

It had a 'blocked off' headcode box, only numbered on one end and does not have a full complement of horns as the corner visible does not have one.

I know it's a tough one but any ideas?

Thanks

Jenny Hart

 

[47271]

This question has come up before, and I think was answered, but for the life of me I can't find the thread. I'll keep searching.

If it helps, Yes Minister was broadcast 1980-82, so you might be a bit early with 1978.

 

[Mag_seven]

This question has come up before, and I think was answered, but for the life of me I can't find the thread. I'll keep searching.

I suspect this is the thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/yes-minister-the-official-visit-episode.185129/#post-4082138

Unfortunately the YouTube link to the episode concerned has been blocked by the BBC on copyright grounds so we can't see the Deltic in question.

 

[Jenny2021]

This question has come up before, and I think was answered, but for the life of me I can't find the thread. I'll keep searching.

If it helps, Yes Minister was broadcast 1980-82, so you might be a bit early with 1978.

Based on what I know about how film and television works the second unit director footage usually gets filmed first so it may well have been filmed in 1978 plus some programmes have a crazily long run in time.

Thanks for your help.

Jenny

 

[bspahh]

I suspect this is the thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/yes-minister-the-official-visit-episode.185129/#post-4082138

Unfortunately the YouTube link to the episode concerned has been blocked by the BBC on copyright grounds so we can't see the Deltic in question.

Its at 16 minutes 45 seconds into in this video

 

[Taunton]

How many railway-type continuity errors can we all spot?

 

[bspahh]

Based on what I know about how film and television works the second unit director footage usually gets filmed first so it may well have been filmed in 1978 plus some programmes have a crazily long run in time.

Thanks for your help.

Jenny

On my desk, I have a copy of "A Very Courageous Decision" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Very-Courageous-Decision-Graham-McCann-ebook/dp/B00OG8CLI6 It says: "The next priority was to record the external scenes and shots ahead of the studio sessions, so all of them were filmed in one busy week, from 9 to 16 December 1979."

This scene was filmed at the North end of platform 1 at Kings Cross.

Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn decided to write the scripts in early 1977. They pitched the idea to tbe BBC in the summer of 1977. The pilot was commissioned on October 13th and it was recorded on 21 January 1979.

The live recordings for the first series were on Sunday evenings in January and most of February 1980. This episode was first broadcast on March 3rd 1980

 

[Jenny2021]

On my desk, I have a copy of "A Very Courageous Decision" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Very-Courageous-Decision-Graham-McCann-ebook/dp/B00OG8CLI6 It says: "The next priority was to record the external scenes and shots ahead of the studio sessions, so all of them were filmed in one busy week, from 9 to 16 December 1979."

This scene was filmed at the North end of platform 1 at Kings Cross.

Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn decided to write the scripts in early 1977. They pitched the idea to tbe BBC in the summer of 1977. The pilot was commissioned on October 13th and it was recorded on 21 January 1979.

The live recordings for the first series were on Sunday evenings in January and most of February 1980. This episode was first broadcast on March 3rd 1980

Thank you. That is very helpful.

Jenny x

 

[Jenny2021]

The footage was take between Dec 9th - Dec 16th 1979.

The mystery Deltic had a single line nameplate, only one number per side and no white paint around the cab windows.

Therefore;

55001 - Works.
55002 - Double line nameplate.
55003 - White cab window frames.
55004 - A photo taken on 08/12/79 clearly shows a horn on the end that would have worked north bound trains.
55005 - Double line nameplate.
55006 - White lined paintwork on window frames.
55007 - White cab window frames.
55008 - Different headcode.
55009 - White cab window frames.
55010 - Double line nameplate.
55011 - White lined paintwork on window frames.
55012 - White cab window frames.
55013 - ?
55014 - Had four horns.
55015 - White cab window frames.
55016 - White lined paintwork on window frames.
55017 - Double line nameplate.
55018 - White cab window frames.
55019 - Had four numbers. Double line nameplate.
55020 - Works.
55021 - Had four horns. Double line nameplate.
55022 - Different headcode.

Therefore 55013 Black Watch is the only remaining candidate. This presents a small problem as 55013 was in and out of works getting cosmetic attention and a full overhaul around this time so few photos of it during this period are available.

Did I get any of that wrong?

Jenny x

 

[D1537]

The footage was take between Dec 9th - Dec 16th 1979.

The mystery Deltic had a single line nameplate, only one number per side and no white paint around the cab windows.

<snipped list>

Therefore 55013 Black Watch is the only remaining candidate. This presents a small problem as 55013 was in and out of works getting cosmetic attention and a full overhaul around this time so few photos of it during this period are available.

Did I get any of that wrong?

Jenny x

Looks like it; but it could still easily be 55004. It would only take a trip round the KE/High Level Bridge at Newcastle, for example, to turn it round.

 

[D1537]

Having said that, I can't find *any* images from 1979 or 1980 of either 55004, 55013 (or the only other single line regiment, 55016) having that horn missing at #1 end. Are we sure it hasn't got one from that terrible TV picture?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

55 004 was known for having a particularly battered looking bodyshell towards the end of the Deltic era. Does that help?

 

[D1537]

According to the Napier Chronicles (which aren't complete), 55004 did 1S72 22.30 KGX-EDB sleepers on 10/12/79. No record of 13 (out of service) or 16 doing anything in that time-frame. It's the right platform for 1S72 as well. If it was filmed in that week, it's almost certainly 004.

 

[WesternLancer]

very good - I assume the Mk1 Sleeper interior is a set - tho it looks rather good.

 

[Taunton]

very good - I assume the Mk1 Sleeper interior is a set - tho it looks rather good.

The scenes like this one were filmed in a BBC studio in front of a live audience. It does look more convincing than the compartment regularly used in Reginald Perrin.

 

[Dr_Paul]

How many railway-type continuity errors can we all spot?

That would make quite a lengthy thread. My favourite was 'Maidenhead' station on a telly drama (I forget which one, it was eminently forgettable save for this unforgettable blunder) that was an ill-disguised Barnes, with Southern electrics and third-rail clearly to be seen.

 

[alexl92]

I love it when people go to this level of effort to work something like this out. Credit to you all!

 

[theblackwatch]

Unfortunately, I've only just spotted this thread - and after reading just the first line, I could have answered that it was number 4! The subject comes up on various Deltic facebook groups now and then and I think has been mentioned in Deltic Deadline... and the answer is always the same.