Mystery Location.

[45669]

Morning All,

I put a couple of pictures taken in 1964 on my Flickr site yesterday, but I have no idea where I was when I took them. So I wondered whether anybody on here might be able to put me out of my misery:

R2149. 45393 - but where? by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

R2148. 45393 - but where? by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

Any suggestions gratefully received.

 

[Spartacus]

Could be Whitehall Jn, Leeds

 

[45669]

Could be Whitehall Jn, Leeds

Leeds! Gosh - I wonder why I might have been up there? I lived in Wembley, Middlesex at the time, but I did get around quite a lot in those days, so anywhere's possible.

There appears to be a coal mine or a power station in the background if that helps at all.

 

[YorksLad12]

It's hard to tell (because it's black) but: if it is Leeds, then in the first photo, centre-left, that could be the now disused New Line viaduct in the background. The housing on the right doesn't look correct though. Unless it was closer to the site of the old Holbeck stations, perhaps, and that's part of Armley/New Wortley?

 

[Dave W]

To answer the question on your Flickr description, 23/12/64 was indeed a Wednesday - although maybe this referred to a future date and you'd snapped this the weekend before?

 

[45669]

To answer the question on your Flickr description, 23/12/64 was indeed a Wednesday - although maybe this referred to a future date and you'd snapped this the weekend before?

Yes, I think you're probably right about that. It's unlikely that I would have been out and about mid-week, especially in those days when we only got two weeks holiday each year.

It looks like a threatened rail strike on the 23rd December, but I couldn't find anything about a strike in December, 1964, so perhaps a settlement was reached and the strike was called off.

 

[45669]

It's hard to tell (because it's black) but: if it is Leeds, then in the first photo, centre-left, that could be the now disused New Line viaduct in the background. The housing on the right doesn't look correct though. Unless it was closer to the site of the old Holbeck stations, perhaps, and that's part of Armley/New Wortley?

I don't know that way at all, so I really have no idea. I'm grateful for any suggestions though. It was 56 years ago, so it might look like that now!

 

[30907]

I don't know that way at all, so I really have no idea. I'm grateful for any suggestions though. It was 56 years ago, so it might look like that now!

That's either a fairly new pit or a power station behind the train, so I don't think Leeds or Bradford/Low Moor.

 

[45669]

That's either a fairly new pit or a power station behind the train, so I don't think Leeds or Bradford/Low Moor.

I do wish I'd kept a diary and written on the slide mounts at the time!

 

[WesternLancer]

I do wish I'd kept a diary and written on the slide mounts at the time!

don't we all!!! Nice to see the pics even if I have no idea on location.

 

[YorksLad12]

That's either a fairly new pit or a power station behind the train, so I don't think Leeds or Bradford/Low Moor.

There was an electricity generating station in the centre of Leeds on Whitehall Road until 1964.

I do wish I'd kept a diary and written on the slide mounts at the time!

It would have helped

 

[WesternLancer]

is it poss to know where the loco was based at the date your pic is dated and would that help give clues / narrow it down more? How confident is the idea of the Leeds area to start with for example.

 

[Darandio]

is it poss to know where the loco was based at the date your pic is dated and would that help give clues / narrow it down more? How confident is the idea of the Leeds area to start with for example.

Given this was disposed of just a couple of years later, it seems it might have been based at Crewe which was the last recorded shed.

 

[45669]

Given this was disposed of just a couple of years later, it seems it might have been based at Crewe which was the last recorded shed.

is it poss to know where the loco was based at the date your pic is dated and would that help give clues / narrow it down more? How confident is the idea of the Leeds area to start with for example.

There was an electricity generating station in the centre of Leeds on Whitehall Road until 1964.
It would have helped

That's either a fairly new pit or a power station behind the train, so I don't think Leeds or Bradford/Low Moor.

To answer the question on your Flickr description, 23/12/64 was indeed a Wednesday - although maybe this referred to a future date and you'd snapped this the weekend before?

Could be Whitehall Jn, Leeds

Many thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I also posted the question on the National Preservation forum and with one or two pointers from people on there, and hours studying Google maps and satellite views, I've come to the conclusion that the pictures were taken at Neasden Junction in north west London.

Behind the loco is the site of Neasden MPD which closed in 1962. It is now the site of an asphalt company, so what I took to be coal heaps must have been asphalt heaps, so not a coal mine or a power station! In the distance can be seen a brick viaduct leading to an iron girder bride; I assumed that this was a railway viaduct, but on closer inspection I realised that it's the North Circular Road!

So that mystery is now solved - unless, of course, someone comes up with any better suggestions!

I've just stated to scan a box of slides dated 1964 / 1965, and very few of the slide mounts have anything written on them...

 

[YorksLad12]

Neasden? So... very south Leeds then?

Looking forward to your new "Guess The Location" competition...!

 

[45669]

Neasden? So... very south Leeds then?

Looking forward to your new "Guess The Location" competition...!

Yes indeed. VERY south Leeds!

That reminds me of a time when I was in a shop in Haworth. The proprietor told me that he had a phone call one evening just before closing time from a customer who was interest in an item that the shop keeper was advertising. The sh0p keeper asked where the customer was phoning from, and the reply was "south of Sheffield".

So the shop keeper said that he'd hang on for a while as it shouldn't take the customer long to get there. Some hours later, the customer arrived and the shop keeper asked why it had taken the customer so long. "I though that you were phoning from south of Sheffield", he said.

"I was", the customer replied. "I was in London."

 

[Spartacus]

I've realised there could be a curious giveaway: in the second photo if you zoom in on the space between the loco and tender there's a large white building with an equally large flag on it. I'd taken it for Leeds Uni, but it must be Wembley Stadium!

 

[Darandio]

I've realised there could be a curious giveaway: in the second photo if you zoom in on the space between the loco and tender there's a large white building with an equally large flag on it. I'd taken it for Leeds Uni, but it must be Wembley Stadium!

Are you sure? Assuming that is the Met's Neasden Power Station behind, then the image is looking North. But Wembley would have been to the West.

 

[45669]

I've realised there could be a curious giveaway: in the second photo if you zoom in on the space between the loco and tender there's a large white building with an equally large flag on it. I'd taken it for Leeds Uni, but it must be Wembley Stadium!

So there is!! That's well spotted. Looking at Google maps, it's bang in line too!

 

[Darandio]

So there is!! That's well spotted. Looking at Google maps, it's bang in line too!

I must be looking the wrong way!

 

[45669]

Are you sure? Assuming that is the Met's Neasden Power Station behind, then the image is looking North. But Wembley would have been to the West.

It's taken looking in a north westerly direction. Forget the power station reference - that's a herring rouge. What I thought might be a power station is an asphalt depot!

 

[Dave W]

Now that you've said it - that girder bridge in the background being the North Circ is a definite giveaway!

I should still like to know the meaning of the chalk! Perhaps it was a note that a full washout of the boiler was due?

 

[45669]

I've re-scanned the pictures at a higher resolution which I hope has improved them; clicking on the pictures at the start of this thread will take you to the revised version.

 

[45669]

Now that you've said it - that girder bridge in the background being the North Circ is a definite giveaway!

I should still like to know the meaning of the chalk! Perhaps it was a note that a full washout of the boiler was due?

Someone else suggested it was the date of a boiler washout, but someone else said the 23rd December, 1964 was the day that Dr. Beeching resigned as the Chairman of the BRB.

 

[WesternLancer]

Well, nice to see the pic location found - look forward to seeing any other identified locations!

 

[WesternLancer]

Someone else suggested it was the date of a boiler washout, but someone else said the 23rd December, 1964 was the day that Dr. Beeching resigned as the Chairman of the BRB.

In fact I should say some very nice pics on your flickr site in that series - great colour rendition and very sharp and atmospheric. Nice to see the colour film does not seem to have degraded in any way compared with some that have done so. The depot and railtour shots being very nice to look at. Do you mind me asking how old you were when taking those pics and was colour film relatively expensive commodity at the time? eg did you need to be working to be able to afford it?

 

[45669]

In fact I should say some very nice pics on your flickr site in that series - great colour rendition and very sharp and atmospheric. Nice to see the colour film does not seem to have degraded in any way compared with some that have done so. The depot and railtour shots being very nice to look at. Do you mind me asking how old you were when taking those pics and was colour film relatively expensive commodity at the time? eg did you need to be working to be able to afford it?

I started experimenting with colour film in 1959 when I was 16 and yes, it was expensive so I couldn't afford it while I was still at school. Even when I did start using it I couldn't afford it all the time so still used B & W film a lot of the time. Colour film was very slow in those days, so not much good in dark or gloomy conditions. I didn't always get the exposure right, either!

Over the years some of my slides are still very good while others are...well, let's not got there! However, I've been able to rescue some of the failures and faded ones with Photoshop and at least make them viewable. I didn't have very expensive cameras in those days either, so many of my old slides are not as sharp as I would have liked, and the slow shutter speeds necessary often led to motion blur. Or camera shake!

We've certainly come a long way since those days. I'm waiting for someone to invent the time machine so that I can go back and so it all again, but with modern day digital cameras and camcorders...

 

[WesternLancer]

I started experimenting with colour film in 1959 when I was 16 and yes, it was expensive so I couldn't afford it while I was still at school. Even when I did start using it I couldn't afford it all the time so still used B & W film a lot of the time. Colour film was very slow in those days, so not much good in dark or gloomy conditions. I didn't always get the exposure right, either!

Over the years some of my slides are still very good while others are...well, let's not got there! However, I've been able to rescue some of the failures and faded ones with Photoshop and at least make them viewable. I didn't have very expensive cameras in those days either, so many of my old slides are not as sharp as I would have liked, and the slow shutter speeds necessary often led to motion blur. Or camera shake!

We've certainly come a long way since those days. I'm waiting for someone to invent the time machine so that I can go back and so it all again, but with modern day digital cameras and camcorders...

Thanks for those insights and recollections - I seem to recall from my own efforts pre digital that slower film was far less versatile, as you say, but when you got it right (good light, held still etc), you did get a really good result. I was about 15 when a relative gave me a decent quality camera (well an SLR!), in the early 80s. I ought to dig out pics and remind myself of what I took pics of.

 

[Bevan Price]

According to Hugh Longworth's book, 45393 was based at Willesden Jn. (1A) between March 1964 and June 1965, moved to Crewe South, and was withdrawn in September 1966.

 

[45669]

Thanks for those insights and recollections - I seem to recall from my own efforts pre digital that slower film was far less versatile, as you say, but when you got it right (good light, held still etc), you did get a really good result. I was about 15 when a relative gave me a decent quality camera (well an SLR!), in the early 80s. I ought to dig out pics and remind myself of what I took pics of.

I'm sure we'd all like to see them.