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Naming ScotRail HSTs

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So?

Edinburgh and Glasgow are destinations for these trains in the same way as the other five cities. Hence the Inter7City branding, not Inter5City, and the inclusion of Edinburgh and Glasgow landmarks in the power car livery.

The problem with Scotland is there's only Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Naming, if it's going to be widespread, should be much more diverse, after all, there's the whole of the 385s to name after two cities.
 
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Strathclyder

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I like the idea of places or similar rather than the obvious ones like the city names, does 43305 still carry the City of Inverness name?
43305 has been nameless since the end of GNER in December 2007; t'was of course numbered 43105 back then.

Going back to Scotrail's possible naming choices for it's HSTs, I personally think that a mix of landmarks from each of the 7 cities would be a excellent avenue to explore here; Kelvingrove, George Square, Clyde Arc, Mugdock Castle, Paisley Abbey & Titan Clydebank, to name but a few in Greater Glasgow's case. But as pointed out a couple replies back, I'd rather wait to have the bloomin' things in service first before picking out any names for them!

On a final & purely selfish note, I'd like to see the revival of Citizens' Network, as previously carried by EMU 318259. I'm not sure exactly how it'd be relevant to the HSTs or the areas they're gonna be serving however, so that one will likely remain a personal fantasy lol
 
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DarloRich

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Can some one add a note of the locomotive numbers and the cities to be served. I can then cone up with a sensible list of names.
 

Essan

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Name them after hills? I know it's been done before with the BR era Class 44s - and later the 60s - but they weren't specifically Scottish hills. I'd love to see them back, and that gives hundreds to choose from, even with all the Geal Charns and Beinn Deargs!
 

Speedbird96

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Agreed on the general consensus that the ScotRail HSTs should be given names either denoting the seven cities they are to serve, as well as local landmarks. However, I'd also be more concerned with actually getting the trains in service first before jumping on the naming bandwagon.

I like the idea of places or similar rather than the obvious ones like the city names, does 43305 still carry the City of Inverness name? I would hope they don't get royal names at all.

John

No, 43305 lost her City of Inverness name 10 years ago after being refurbished from 43105 in June 2008. 43305 has been nameless ever since.

43305 has been nameless since the end of GNER in December 2007; t'was of course numbered 43105 back then.

Slight correction, 43105 as well as other power cars that carried the interim GNER/NatEx livery retained their stick-on names after National Express took over the East Coast franchise in December 2007. Of course, those that were repainted into NatEx's livery did lose their stick-on names (the cast iron nameplates were retained on 43290/43300/43367) 43105 lost her City of Inverness name in June 2008 after being sent to Brush for refurbishment to 43305.
 

Strathclyder

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Slight correction, 43105 as well as other power cars that carried the interim GNER/NatEx livery retained their stick-on names after National Express took over the East Coast franchise in December 2007. Of course, those that were repainted into NatEx's livery did lose their stick-on names (the cast iron nameplates were retained on 43290/43300/43367) 43105 lost her City of Inverness name in June 2008 after being sent to Brush for refurbishment to 43305.
Ah, I see. Wasn't 100% clued up on this, so thanks for setting the record straight. :)
 

Speedbird96

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Ah, I see. Wasn't 100% clued up on this, so thanks for setting the record straight. :)

No worries :) Even after GNER disappeared, it was a nice touch that NXEC did retain some of the names that GNER gave their power cars before they got repainted and renamed. This was at a time I was keeping a close eye on which HST power cars were being sent to Brush for refurbishment.
 

Mag_seven

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why not go for the obvious but appropriate ones too like "City of Aberdeen","City of Dundee", "City of Inverness", "City of Edinburgh"

Before anyone names a power car "City of Edinburgh" someone will have to ask Virgin to dename 390130!
 

delt1c

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Lady Diana Spencer was a regular on the Aberdeens, as was St Cuthbert (named after the Co-op?).

For the HSTs, wouldn't it be good to have a Royals series?

Duke of Rothesay & Duchess of Rothesay
Earl of Strathearn & Countess of Strathearn
Earl of Dumbarton & Countess of Dumbarton
Why? Lets have some traditional Scottish names
 

boabt

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The problem with Scotland is there's only Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Naming, if it's going to be widespread, should be much more diverse, after all, there's the whole of the 385s to name after two cities.

The problem with England is there’s only London...
 

Highlandspring

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318266 said:
Name one Isle of Bute.
That’s a brilliant idea, name them all after places you can’t get to by train... 43033 Lerwick or 43143 Fort Augustus anyone?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I would be slightly hesitant in a power car carrying the nameplate "City of Glasgow", as that was the name of 390033 that derailed at Grayrigg. Furthermore, there was once a steam locomotive that also had that name that was involved in the Harrow & Wealdstone accident in the 1950s, hence how I feel that it would be unlucky.

Perhaps the above incidents happened to be a strange co-incidence - similar as how AFC Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth, and West Ham United all started to have financial problems after Harry Rednapp resigned as manager.
 

godfreycomplex

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Possibles
Wolf of Badenoch (a reuse I know)
Stonehaven Fireballs
J.M. Barrie
Forfar Bridie
Arbroath Smokie
Pitlochry Festival
Dundee Rep
Comann na Camanachd
The Beechgrove Garden
William Topaz McGonagall
Redshank
Frazione de Cerasuolo
William McCombie
Perthshire raspberry
None of these from the Central Belt or directly involve politics or the military
 
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Girner

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I know, let's name them after comedy double acts! You could have Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello or even Morcambe and Wise. Then when the inevitable balls up happens and power cars get swapped out then we would see some interesting pairings. Cannon and Corbett, Fry and Mortimer.
Not as rediculous as some other ideas being banded about here. Let's get them in service first before we think about wasting time naming them.
 

DarloRich

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This is an update of a previous post I did on an old thread. I am not Scottish ( but do have family in Scotland) so please feel free to post criticism or advice on better options!

The first thing to note is that this entire campaign is focused on generating PR and using every opportunity to hammer home the HST service improvements, journey time reductions, improvement in passenger facilities, the “7 cities programme”, Transport Scotland & ScotRail’s planned ‘Revolution in Rail’ and the slogan: Our plan to build the best railway Scotland has ever had. It must be noted this is about PR NOT nice train names.

I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) Heritage/ culture
2) Tourism
3) Places
4) Scottish People who have made an outstanding contribution ( or are famous and alive!)
5) Responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)


Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole proposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign should be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel perhaps coupled with a ticket offer. However limiting the names to the “Scotrail 7” means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names ( such as Robbie Burns) and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous Scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big Scottish companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. Scotrail also get one obviously.

I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes. I have also tried to keep away from names used by the push/pull trains as I don’t think, in the main, they reflect a modern Scotland. There are also some I had to discount like the Burrell Collection as it is closed until 2020 for renovation or the Glasgow School of Art as the most famous part of it recently burnt down meaning the impact of a tie up would be very limited!

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

The naming campaign may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services perhaps via one of the charity or political slots

There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy! Also with an SNP government paying the piper we need some names that they can get behind to get them interested in supporting the scheme. There are a couple of slots for political naming’s and I have tried to angle those towards female names to tempt the SNP leader. I have also chucked in a couple of Royals as they will always generate publicity and newspaper coverage.

1 Edinburgh Castle & Royal Mile
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood (Political slot)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Inverness – Gateway to the Highlands
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park
11 Glasgow Cathedral
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 People Make Glasgow
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness- ( A nice Nessie badge also ;) )
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots
28 Flora MacDonald (Political slot)
29 HM Queen Elizabeth – Scotland’s Queen
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – Political slot)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven (first female undergraduates in a British university)
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 Tunnocks ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway

I appreciate this is fantasy land and that Scotrail are not going to start a vast naming policy. However I do think that a named locomotive, even today, can create feelings of happiness and identity in the travelling public and give Scotrail and Transport Scotland a positive PR boost.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
The gripes I have with the above list are listed below

The present monarch (there are already plenty of things named after her)
The possible sponsorship of BAE Systems (they are involved in various arms deals to governments who have not a very good human rights record)
Wallace Monument (Stirling or Elderslie, Johnstone?)
Sean Connery (resides abroad so as to dodge paying tax, even though supports Scottish independence)
Royal Bank of Scotland (Fred "the Shred" Goodwin stripped of his knighthood for almost bankrupting the economy, plus a lot of branch closures in rural areas)
Bank of Scotland (like RBS, was also bailed out)

The other suggestions seem reasonable.
 

DarloRich

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The gripes I have with the above list are listed below

The present monarch (there are already plenty of things named after her)
The possible sponsorship of BAE Systems (they are involved in various arms deals to governments who have not a very good human rights record)
Wallace Monument (Stirling or Elderslie, Johnstone?)
Sean Connery (resides abroad so as to dodge paying tax, even though supports Scottish independence)
Royal Bank of Scotland (Fred "the Shred" Goodwin stripped of his knighthood for almost bankrupting the economy, plus a lot of branch closures in rural areas)
Bank of Scotland (like RBS, was also bailed out)

The other suggestions seem reasonable.

I take the points and respond as follows -

The Queen generates PR. That gets the scheme into the national news. Even more so if she goes for a ride on the new trains. I am happy to miss her out if we can find someone else who will get the scheme loads of free publicity.

BAE are also a major employer in Glasgow and a major ship builders on the Cylde but it was just an idea to claw back some of the costs of the scheme and get some commercial interest. I think the history of the Clyde ship building industry is worth remembering. (As for the ethics my view is people will buy guns and bombs. They may as well buy them off us. )

I meant the more famous Wallace Memorial at Stirling. It is recognised by tourists. I know the one in Elderslie but doubt many tourist make their way there.

Sean Connery is in because he is a fan of the SNP ;)

The commercial ones are, as I said, open to any Scottish company who will pay the costs of the scheme. I just picked big companies that are nominally based in Scotland and are well known names. I agree the banks are not fantastic examples but struggled to think of other well known companies. Feel free to suggest any others.
 

Highland37

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Avoid Scotch Whisky Association. They don't really care about much, apart from profit.

Tesco are also a big employer, as are Highland Council etc. I do think ship building is worth mentioning though so instead of some dodgy org like BAE, why not have "Nobles of Girvan", "Ferguson Marine" etc.

Or more fitting, St Rollox, Aitkenhead Road etc
 

Hadders

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Stagecoach or First, as a Scottish based companies could be cheeky and get one of them named after them :lol:
 

xotGD

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You could name 9 power cars after the football clubs in the 7 cities.
 
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