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National Express Coaches Discussion

M60lad

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Just to clarify something here, the extra Megabus School dupes in/around Manchester are actually running out of Stagecoach's Park & Ride site at Hazel Grove, despite the large space they've got here some are even being parked up at Megabuses base at Woolley Edgse services.

The Parks of Hamilton School Dupes are being run out of Parks outstation at Rochdale.
 
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Steam Man

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Do National express still run double deck coaches? If they do I was just wondering, which routes do they run them on?
 
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carlberry

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Do National express still run double deck coaches? If they do I was just wondering, which routes do they run them on?
Edwards coaches run double deckers to cover some of it's National Express contracts, Bristol to London being their usual usage before March. They have been in use over the last couple of weeks however, I suspect, they'll be mothballed again next month.
 

Smethwickian

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National Express website to be updated at some point tomorrow, and mass generic email to go to all current and recent customers on database on on Friday, to advise that coach network will be suspended from midnight Sunday night, January 10.
Further advice regarding refunds or putting tickets on hold to be announced on website. Passengers strongly advised to use the online contact or ticket amendment options to be offered, as contact centre still on reduced hours and may yet be further reduced by furlough etc.
Suspension currently planned until end of February but subject to review in light of further government announcements etc.
 
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dan5324

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National Express website to be updated at some point tomorrow, and mass generic email to go to all current and recent customers on database on on Friday, to advise that coach network will be suspended from midnight Sunday night, January 10.
Further advice regarding refunds or putting tickets on hold to be announced on website. Passengers strongly advised to use the online contact or ticket amendment options to be offered, as contact centre still on reduced hours and may yet be further reduced by furlough etc.
Suspension currently planned until end of February but subject to review in light of further government announcements etc.
Funny I posted this was happening at 1600 today yet was rejected by the mods...but yes. Services suspended until at least March. Services were due to suspended earlier. The government grant kept services running a little longer than originally planned.

furlough reduced from 90% to 80%.
 
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Shimbleshanks

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Funny I posted this was happening at 1600 today yet was rejected by the mods...but yes. Services suspended until at least March. Services were due to suspended earlier. The government grant kept services running a little longer than originally planned.

furlough reduced from 90% to 80%.
Now on the business section of the BBC News website. No announcement on the National Express website itself until you try and book a journey and it tells you services are suspended until at least 1 March.
 

dan5324

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Now on the business section of the BBC News website. No announcement on the National Express website itself until you try and book a journey and it tells you services are suspended until at least 1 March.
Word from our office is that’s is more likely to be an Easter return. Already confirmed internally some routes will never return. Bad times.
 

Shimbleshanks

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If our Dear Leader is to be believed and there will be a phased lifting of lockdown from February half-term, it seems illogical to not set a provisonal date for the return of services until 1 March. That is if they are making any pretence of providing an 'essential service'. With Megabus operating only a skeleton service, God help anyone needing to make an urgent journey that hasn't got the funds for a train ticket.
 

carlberry

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If our Dear Leader is to be believed and there will be a phased lifting of lockdown from February half-term, it seems illogical to not set a provisonal date for the return of services until 1 March. That is if they are making any pretence of providing an 'essential service'. With Megabus operating only a skeleton service, God help anyone needing to make an urgent journey that hasn't got the funds for a train ticket.
Our dear leader makes it up as he goes along, Natex have to give some sort of commitment to the contractors. Coaches are not seen as an essential service when it comes to business continuity grants.
 

Robertj21a

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If our Dear Leader is to be believed and there will be a phased lifting of lockdown from February half-term, it seems illogical to not set a provisonal date for the return of services until 1 March. That is if they are making any pretence of providing an 'essential service'. With Megabus operating only a skeleton service, God help anyone needing to make an urgent journey that hasn't got the funds for a train ticket.
I haven't seen any reference to 'a phased lifting of lockdown from February half term'. I've heard and seen reference to a *desire* for a phased lifting from that time, or as soon as possible, but it's way too soon to assume what might, or might not, be possible in 1-2 months time.
 

Shimbleshanks

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I haven't seen any reference to 'a phased lifting of lockdown from February half term'. I've heard and seen reference to a *desire* for a phased lifting from that time, or as soon as possible, but it's way too soon to assume what might, or might not, be possible in 1-2 months time.
But NatEx do seem to be shutting the door on any earlier resumption of services in the, admittedly unlikely, event of things starting to get back to normal from February.
 

carlberry

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But NatEx do seem to be shutting the door on any earlier resumption of services in the, admittedly unlikely, event of things starting to get back to normal from February.
At best schools will go back. Theres little chance of anything else substancial and, in a good year, Feburary isnt going to be a profitiable time of year for coach travel anyway. Aiming for 1st March (and that's still optimistic) gives a clear message that assets can be stood down for February which is a decision that would have to be taken within the next couple of weeks anyway.
 

dan5324

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If our Dear Leader is to be believed and there will be a phased lifting of lockdown from February half-term, it seems illogical to not set a provisonal date for the return of services until 1 March. That is if they are making any pretence of providing an 'essential service'. With Megabus operating only a skeleton service, God help anyone needing to make an urgent journey that hasn't got the funds for a train ticket.
Unfortunately it isn’t just about passengers making err essential journeys. Our staff sickness level has gone through the roof. Some drivers have been getting close to the legal driving limit per week, something which was pretty much unheard of on nat ex. And when profits have already collapsed the last thing you wanna be doing is blowing more money on excessive staff sickness, paying incentives for drivers to do overtime to take 4 passengers to some little village via Heathrow and Gatwick. The logistics don’t add up.
Not to mention the government grant has run dry meaning nat ex are now funding the services currently running themselves.
Add to that our average coach patronage has been about 8.....it really makes no sense to keep running. Things will start to re open when people start making plans for Easter.....hopefully.
 

Smethwickian

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But NatEx do seem to be shutting the door on any earlier resumption of services in the, admittedly unlikely, event of things starting to get back to normal from February.
The problem is that you can easily over-promise when reality is beyond the company's control.
NX increased services with government encouragement for the much-vaunted 24-27 December travel window, including temporarily reintroducing whole routes, then saw them run wastefully empty because of the government's u-turn. With no more government funding expected, it simply cannot afford to do so again.
And just how much passenger goodwill would be lost for taking bookings for the second half of February, only to have to cancel them? No, bearing in mind the likely levels of demand, writing off February straight away is an understandable business decision.
 

Shimbleshanks

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The problem is that you can easily over-promise when reality is beyond the company's control.
NX increased services with government encouragement for the much-vaunted 24-27 December travel window, including temporarily reintroducing whole routes, then saw them run wastefully empty because of the government's u-turn. With no more government funding expected, it simply cannot afford to do so again.
And just how much passenger goodwill would be lost for taking bookings for the second half of February, only to have to cancel them? No, bearing in mind the likely levels of demand, writing off February straight away is an understandable business decision.
The problem is that you can easily over-promise when reality is beyond the company's control.
NX increased services with government encouragement for the much-vaunted 24-27 December travel window, including temporarily reintroducing whole routes, then saw them run wastefully empty because of the government's u-turn. With no more government funding expected, it simply cannot afford to do so again.
And just how much passenger goodwill would be lost for taking bookings for the second half of February, only to have to cancel them? No, bearing in mind the likely levels of demand, writing off February straight away is an understandable business decision.
Sounds like a good candidate for some government support. If the government can pay the railways millions to cart fresh air about, surely they can find a small amount to keep a skeleton coach service running?
 

Boo_

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Sounds like a good candidate for some government support. If the government can pay the railways millions to cart fresh air about, surely they can find a small amount to keep a skeleton coach service running?
So what about other coach services? National Express is a PLC and it would be so wrong if they did after what they did with the East coast with the Railways. It's national infrastructure unlike National Express who are free just like Megabus / Flixbus to walk away from a route does not mean when things return others don't just jump on that route. If they wanted to help they would have to offer the routes to all and Will be part nationalisation again of coaches.
 
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GaryMcEwan

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I've just got an email advising that all services are suspended from 23:59 on Sunday the 10th of January 2021 with a provisional resume date of the 1st of March 2021.
 

M60lad

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Out of interest what services will probably not return when National Express starts operating services again?
 

Boo_

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When I worked at London Victoria some of the 1 a day services were loss leaders to feed into London onto core routes. tThings like the London - southend / London Eastbourne / London Portsmouth ( slow one) used to carry very few passengers. if you look at what been running since last lockdown that most likely going to be it. And I see NX ops running more services with less giving to partners.
 

dan5324

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as above poster it’ll be routes that were already on their last legs anyway. I know for a fact certain routes to north Devon, north Wales, Hampshire, Essex and deepest Scotland have already been chopped.
Going forward, the company want a permanent base/depot in London so more long distance can be run in house. Whether that happens or not only time can tell. Tbh the network has long been needing an overhaul. Far too much wastage and unnecessary mileage. Hopefully this opportunity isn’t wasted.
 

LucyP

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Why are people talking about a skeleton service? Why would it be required, when you can only leave home for certain purposes, and almost always those have to be in your local area?

It is impossible to predict when life will get back to normal, and when long distance coach travel will be required. It certainly won't be by Easter. Christmas maybe. It all depends on how fast the UK population can be vaccinated, and the hope that the vaccines will be effective against the new strains of the virus. The new strains are so infectious, that the only way to keep the numbers of people being infected down, is a total lockdown.
 

Robertj21a

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as above poster it’ll be routes that were already on their last legs anyway. I know for a fact certain routes to north Devon, north Wales, Hampshire, Essex and deepest Scotland have already been chopped.
Going forward, the company want a permanent base/depot in London so more long distance can be run in house. Whether that happens or not only time can tell. Tbh the network has long been needing an overhaul. Far too much wastage and unnecessary mileage. Hopefully this opportunity isn’t wasted.
For London, wouldn't Clarkes or Kings Ferry be adequate?
 

Shimbleshanks

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Why are people talking about a skeleton service? Why would it be required, when you can only leave home for certain purposes, and almost always those have to be in your local area?

It is impossible to predict when life will get back to normal, and when long distance coach travel will be required. It certainly won't be by Easter. Christmas maybe. It all depends on how fast the UK population can be vaccinated, and the hope that the vaccines will be effective against the new strains of the virus. The new strains are so infectious, that the only way to keep the numbers of people being infected down, is a total lockdown.
Visiting sick family members, funerals? Job interviews? Students going to or from college?
 

carlberry

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as above poster it’ll be routes that were already on their last legs anyway. I know for a fact certain routes to north Devon, north Wales, Hampshire, Essex and deepest Scotland have already been chopped.
Going forward, the company want a permanent base/depot in London so more long distance can be run in house. Whether that happens or not only time can tell. Tbh the network has long been needing an overhaul. Far too much wastage and unnecessary mileage. Hopefully this opportunity isn’t wasted.
They have bases close to London, the issue with long distance coaches is that London isnt a good place for a base both because of employment/land costs and because the traffic flow is heavily in the wrong direction. I would have thought the current situation would have meant they're very happy that most stuff is contracted and cutting it can be somebody else's problem.

Why are people talking about a skeleton service? Why would it be required, when you can only leave home for certain purposes, and almost always those have to be in your local area?

It is impossible to predict when life will get back to normal, and when long distance coach travel will be required. It certainly won't be by Easter. Christmas maybe. It all depends on how fast the UK population can be vaccinated, and the hope that the vaccines will be effective against the new strains of the virus. The new strains are so infectious, that the only way to keep the numbers of people being infected down, is a total lockdown.
Using the same theory the government should have dropped all long distance train services.
 

Bletchleyite

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Using the same theory the government should have dropped all long distance train services.

It's a bit easier to subsidise something you're already subsidising than create a mechanism to subsidise things you don't presently subsidise. And in terms of providing necessary travel to those who don't have cars, you don't need both a railway and coaches; almost all of Megabus and NatEx duplicates the railway.
 

Deerfold

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Using the same theory the government should have dropped all long distance train services.
Those not provided by franchises, such as Hull Trains and Grand Central have been dropped. They're more comparable with National Express.

Also, a lot of long-distance train services provide many local trips.
 

duncombec

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For London, wouldn't Clarkes or Kings Ferry be adequate?
I'd say it depends. The King Ferry yard in Gillingham is small and pretty full under normal circumstances, and in "normal times", they tended to cover NatEx work as an extension of the now much reduced commuter services. Their "NatEx" at Dover is, as far as I recall, rented space, and even further still for London work. The Hounslow base for Airport work is also on that license, but I don't know how large it is and what they could fit.

I've never seen the yard at Lower Sydenham (Clarkes) to know how large it is, but again, there is/was a fairly sizeable private hire fleet to be stored there. Streetview suggests it is long and thin, and I'd estimate fairly full.

Incidentally, the Clarkes commuter services and LSP (London Service Permits) have been formally transferred to Kings Ferry. Whether this is a tidying up exercise so that all scheduled work is on the KF license I don't know, but all the acquisitions (KF, Clarkes and the Hampshire ops) are now marketing themselves as National Express Transport Solutions.
 

Boo_

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You don't need the coaches based in London. when I worked at megabus (Leeds) Cwmbran did most of the routes but most of the drivers was all local swapping at Birmingham or Manchester for drivers from Yorkshire Cwmbran was there main base with coaches out for 4 / 5 days. they used to have a running board with letter at end. A was day 1 B was day 2 and so on. Megabus used to have a spare at Hyde Road and Woolley edge. but most of time they would use a local hire to cover and use a megabus driver.

National Express they only need a repair base in UK so Birmingham can do it. But London does need a place to park coaches for layover.
National Express can base drivers at London Victrola but that would cost more then using drivers from West and North and they have Sammys there. at Victrola they used to base the A1 airport coaches there with them stored at the airport overnight and few overnight in sammys. I was on about £4 more each hr then Heathrow / Golders green staff.
 

dan5324

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For London, wouldn't Clarkes or Kings Ferry be adequate?
Nowhere near close enough to VCS. Besides although owned by Nat ex and running nat services it’s still a different operation compared to owned ops ie stansted Luton ex Gatwick ex Sipson road.
That’s before we even start about talking drivers. We have many that live closer to central London than any Clarke’s or kings bases.
 
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