National Express

[quarella]

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National Express Rapide timetable and fares for 18 Sept 1983 to 21 Jan 1984. I had forgotten about Boomerang Returns for travel on Tue, Wed, Thu only. Looking at the 502 timetable from Bideford to London with the calling points of Bideford Red Bus office and Barnstaple Red Bus station reminds me of a holiday in North Devon in the late 80s where there were several buses still in NBC green driving around with "This is a Red Bus" stuck on it.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Some of the journey times to or from London certainly date it - 2hr 15mins Birmingham to London, 3hr 15min Swansea to London...

 

[starrymarkb]

That would have been pre speed limiter? Wonder what they were timed for?

 

[quarella]

That would have been pre speed limiter? Wonder what they were timed for?

Definitely pre speed limiter and pre outside lane ban on the motorway. Dennis Falcons were intended for Rapide work but it was Leyland Tigers I travelled on. Good for 80mph+ running.
The Plymouth route operated in association with Trathens tended to be Neoplan Skyliners, at least the Trathens side did.

 

[quarella]

From 1983 a once a day Heads of The Valleys/Forest of Dean connecting service to and from Cheltenham Coach Station which closed the following year. Although only a three hour journey note the refreshment stops at Monmouth on the way out and Abergavenny on the return.

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[quarella]

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Summer 1983 Holyhead - Southend-on-Sea timetable leaflet. Image of ECW B51 body and of 'Beeper', National Expresses marketing thing at the time. We were made of sterner stuff in those days. It says PC(??) indicates a toilet stop. On this journey of 13 hours 20 minutes there is only one shown at Digbeth St, Birmingham after 6.5 hours travelling. Unless travelling on a Rapide service an onboard toilet would have been extremely unlikely.

 

[pitdiver]

As a former National Express Coach Stn Manager the Holyhead-Southend -On- Sea Route seems very bizarre. It was a bit before my time though.

Were there any other "strange routes" around in those days. As a matter of interest would would the crew of the above route on arrival at SOS was it a lodging turn?

 

[Titfield]

I met Beeper the Frog once at a Bus Rally - may have been at Netley Southampton in the early 1980s.

It was quite a clever piece of marketing for the time though I wonder how much good it really did.

 

[quarella]

As a former National Express Coach Stn Manager the Holyhead-Southend -On- Sea Route seems very bizarre. It was a bit before my time though.

Were there any other "strange routes" around in those days. As a matter of interest would would the crew of the above route on arrival at SOS was it a lodging turn?

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At the time these weren't "strange routes" with National Express serving many settlements on routes that were extremely long distance, limited stop bus services. Whilst motorways were used where appropriate, up till the 1980s the routes tended to follow former trunk roads. Rapide services made use of the motorway network and as there was a demand for quicker journeys other services followed seeing the end of the 1500 mass departure from St Margarets Coach Station Cheltenham with Birmingham Digbeth Street becoming the interchange.

 

[dzug2]

From 1983 a once a day Heads of The Valleys/Forest of Dean connecting service to and from Cheltenham Coach Station which closed the following year. Although only a three hour journey note the refreshment stops at Monmouth on the way out and Abergavenny on the return.

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The refreshment stops will have been at Raglan or somewhere else en route between the two surely?

 

[starrymarkb]

I remember there used to be an Exmouth to London via pretty much every village on the South Coast between there and Southampton. Took about 10 hours!

Most people at this end of the route would get the service bus or a lift to Exeter for a 3-4hr journey.

 

[Welshman]

As a former National Express Coach Stn Manager the Holyhead-Southend -On- Sea Route seems very bizarre. It was a bit before my time though.

Were there any other "strange routes" around in those days. As a matter of interest would would the crew of the above route on arrival at SOS was it a lodging turn?

There were some interesting through routes, but I suspect not many [except perhaps enthusiasts] travelled end-to end! They did, however, provide some useful cross-country journey opportunities for those boarding from intermediate stops.

I think, too, that much depended upon where the depot was situated. Presumably, in the case of Holyhead-Southend, the service was shared between Crosville and Eastern Counties, with each company providing one vehicle. And, indeed, the terminus at Holyhead was the Crosville depot. They may also have had a mind on those travelling to/from Dublin via the overnight ferries.

Drivers would have changed en-route, perhaps more than once, so no one driver would have worked Holyhead-Southend throughout, thus there was no need for lodging.

My favourite example of "interesting" journey-opportunities was that afforded not by National Express, but by a competing consortium of Blackburn Transport, Leicester City Transport and Maidstone & District in the early 1980's. The "City Flyer" service linked Blackpool with London & Dover, and I seem to remember there were three through journeys per day. It was the brainchild of the late Geoffrey Hilditch, [whose sad death was noted in these columns recently], when he was GM at Leicester. Drivers were changed at Leicester and Maidstone, so each section stayed within the legal drivers' hours.

Unfortunately, it didn't last very long - three or four years I think - and only the hardened few enthusiasts travelled throughout! Ironically, most of its custom seemed to be day-trippers between Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn and Blackpool, and you didn't need an overnight coach from Dover to cater for that flow!

 

[quarella]

The refreshment stops will have been at Raglan or somewhere else en route between the two surely?

Oops. It does clearly state "en route". I'll learn to read timetables one day.

 

[Welshman]

I remember there used to be an Exmouth to London via pretty much every village on the South Coast between there and Southampton. Took about 10 hours!

Most people at this end of the route would get the service bus or a lift to Exeter for a 3-4hr journey.

Your post has just reminded me that in 1972/73, my then girlfriend and I holidayed in Lynmouth, North Devon, and actually returned to London on a through "Royal Blue" service from Lynton to Victoria Coach station. In those days, before the M5 and M4, I seem to remember it went via Taunton and Yeovil, and then along the A30. It left Lynton about 10am and arrived at Victoria about 6.30pm! In those days, "Royal Blue" had some very handsome vehicles, and they virtually ruled the roads from Devon and Cornwall.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

oddly enough had posted this link in another thread but think it is appropriate for 'National Express' nostalgia (harking back to the days of the on board 'hostess')

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3NVPOedkEk&index=1&list=RDH3NVPOedkEk

 

[Welshman]

Definitely pre speed limiter and pre outside lane ban on the motorway. Dennis Falcons were intended for Rapide work but it was Leyland Tigers I travelled on. Good for 80mph+ running.
The Plymouth route operated in association with Trathens tended to be Neoplan Skyliners, at least the Trathens side did.

Never mind speed-limiters and bans on using the third lane, go back to the days of no general overall speed limit.

There are tales of the specially-built coaches for Midland Red achieving 100 mph on the M1 when it opened in 1959!

Of course, in those days, motorway traffic was much lighter, with the occasional van or lorry trundling along at about 40mph!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Not sure if it is true but did read somewhere the group originally wanted to film the video on a NE coach but once they heard the song National Express said no.

 

[pitdiver]

Oh how things have changed with NX, They seem to only be interested in direct routes these days which I suppose is understandable. However they don't even go to Cromer any more.
When i worked for them the routes that intrigued me included 339 Westward Ho!- Grimsby
and the 305 Liverpool-Clacton On Sea.

 

[notadriver]

When were the 'golden' years for national express ? By that I when journey times and speeds matched cars and comfort was equivalent to trains of the time ? I'm thinking in the 80s coaches were doing 70 mph + on motorways and and the top speed of most trains was then only 100 mph.

 

[Robertj21a]

There were some interesting through routes, but I suspect not many [except perhaps enthusiasts] travelled end-to end! They did, however, provide some useful cross-country journey opportunities for those boarding from intermediate stops.

I think, too, that much depended upon where the depot was situated. Presumably, in the case of Holyhead-Southend, the service was shared between Crosville and Eastern Counties, with each company providing one vehicle. And, indeed, the terminus at Holyhead was the Crosville depot. They may also have had a mind on those travelling to/from Dublin via the overnight ferries.

Drivers would have changed en-route, perhaps more than once, so no one driver would have worked Holyhead-Southend throughout, thus there was no need for lodging.

My favourite example of "interesting" journey-opportunities was that afforded not by National Express, but by a competing consortium of Blackburn Transport, Leicester City Transport and Maidstone & District in the early 1980's. The "City Flyer" service linked Blackpool with London & Dover, and I seem to remember there were three through journeys per day. It was the brainchild of the late Geoffrey Hilditch, [whose sad death was noted in these columns recently], when he was GM at Leicester. Drivers were changed at Leicester and Maidstone, so each section stayed within the legal drivers' hours.

Unfortunately, it didn't last very long - three or four years I think - and only the hardened few enthusiasts travelled throughout! Ironically, most of its custom seemed to be day-trippers between Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn and Blackpool, and you didn't need an overnight coach from Dover to cater for that flow!

I think the 'City Flyer' was actually Leicester Citybus with Burnley (not Blackburn) and Maidstone Corporation (not M & D).

Dale

.

 

[quarella]

When were the 'golden' years for national express ? By that I when journey times and speeds matched cars and comfort was equivalent to trains of the time ? I'm thinking in the 80s coaches were doing 70 mph + on motorways and and the top speed of most trains was then only 100 mph.

The 1980 Transport Act deregulated long distance coach services leading many to dip their toe into the water of express coach services with varying levels of success. The British Coachways co-operative being a notable failure. However the take up of the fast services with facilities by such operators as Trathens from the South West who introduced the Rapide brand and Cotters/Stagecoach from Scotland I think took National Express rather by surprise and had to play catch up. For some years the existing network operated alongside the expanded Rapide network. In the early 1990s my travels between Bristol and Swansea included Twelve Knights Margam(a pub) and at Taibach on the A48 to the east of Port Talbot on the timetable. I do not think in 4 years a passenger used either stop on a coach I was on. I was also travelling on. Leyland Leopards up to 18 years old were the usual traction.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

What was the last service that operated without an onboard toilet ? I recall some pretty lengthy journies on Leyland Leopard Plaxton Panoramas without one.

 

[Welshman]

I think the 'City Flyer' was actually Leicester Citybus with Burnley (not Blackburn) and Maidstone Corporation (not M & D).

Dale

.

Yes, you're right. Thank you. My memory's getting a bit crumbly at the edges!

Incidentally, do you know of any book in which this service has been recorded? I think Hilditch himself was thinking of referring to it if he wrote a third part to "Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres" but, as far as I know, that never got written.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 1980 Transport Act deregulated long distance coach services leading many to dip their toe into the water of express coach services with varying levels of success. The British Coachways co-operative being a notable failure. However the take up of the fast services with facilities by such operators as Trathens from the South West who introduced the Rapide brand and Cotters/Stagecoach from Scotland I think took National Express rather by surprise and had to play catch up. For some years the existing network operated alongside the expanded Rapide network. In the early 1990s my travels between Bristol and Swansea included Twelve Knights Margam(a pub) and at Taibach on the A48 to the east of Port Talbot on the timetable. I do not think in 4 years a passenger used either stop on a coach I was on. I was also travelling on. Leyland Leopards up to 18 years old were the usual traction.

The era of competition from British Coachways was certainly interesting. I remember a journey from Loughborough to London on a Barton's Leyland Leopard. Fares were ridiculously cheap, but I think what contributed mainly to their demise was the lack of a suitable London terminus. Compared with their puddle-strewn open-air stops on the old goods yard near St Pancras station, National Express's facilities at Victoria seemed quite lavish.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh how things have changed with NX, They seem to only be interested in direct routes these days which I suppose is understandable. However they don't even go to Cromer any more.
When i worked for them the routes that intrigued me included 339 Westward Ho!- Grimsby
and the 305 Liverpool-Clacton On Sea.

My favourites were, for a time, interworked using Western National - 336 Penzance to Edinburgh via everywhere, that then operated the 383 Edinburgh to Wrexham

 

[ValleyLines142]

My favourites were, for a time, interworked using Western National - 336 Penzance to Edinburgh via everywhere, that then operated the 383 Edinburgh to Wrexham

Via everywhere

The 336 still runs, it left Bristol last night at about 8pm. Couldn't do that at all!

 

[bussnapperwm]

Via everywhere

The 336 still runs, it left Bristol last night at about 8pm. Couldn't do that at all!

Run using Bruce's Coaches when I lastused it...

 

[theblackwatch]

Definitely pre speed limiter and pre outside lane ban on the motorway. Dennis Falcons were intended for Rapide work but it was Leyland Tigers I travelled on. Good for 80mph+ running.
The Plymouth route operated in association with Trathens tended to be Neoplan Skyliners, at least the Trathens side did.

The Dennis Falcons will probably be better known for their tendancy to catch fire - I seem to recall quite a few of them went up in flames!

 

[Robertj21a]

Oh how things have changed with NX, They seem to only be interested in direct routes these days which I suppose is understandable. However they don't even go to Cromer any more.
When i worked for them the routes that intrigued me included 339 Westward Ho!- Grimsby
and the 305 Liverpool-Clacton On Sea.

339 still runs Westward Ho! to Grimsby

 

[theblackwatch]

Rapide services made use of the motorway network and as there was a demand for quicker journeys other services followed seeing the end of the 1500 mass departure from St Margarets Coach Station Cheltenham with Birmingham Digbeth Street becoming the interchange.

There used to be a mass 15.00 departure from Digbeth in the mid-80s too. On trips to Birmingham, we used to go out for some buses in the afternoon, and always emsured we were at Digbeth for around 14.50 for the departures. That really was quite a dingy place, I believe it was originally built (or intended to be) a bus depot. Happy memories though!

 

[extendedpaul]

When were the 'golden' years for national express ? By that I when journey times and speeds matched cars and comfort was equivalent to trains of the time ? I'm thinking in the 80s coaches were doing 70 mph + on motorways and and the top speed of most trains was then only 100 mph.

I recall travelling just on day trips across the country by coach with my girlfriend in the 1980s using National Express coaches. I think there were vouchers allowing buy one get one free available regularly, similar to the Persil ones for rail travel which we also used.

We loved the fast Rapide coaches, with a film to watch and on board refreshments, both a novelty at the time. Best of all were the Trathens coaches to Plymouth which I recall were double deckers.

Happy times