National Fares Manual 99

[John @ home]

It seems to me that the parts of the National Fares Manual made
available online to the public are now out of date.

NFM 99 should have started today. The links at
http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/manuals.html
refer to NFM 98, which has expired. (The "Last Revised" dates shown
are wrong and refer to the expiry date.)

Given that the NFM is no longer available in printed form, does anyone
know where members of the public may obtain access to the current
version of this important information?

John

 

[Max]

Presumably with it being a Sunday, the links haven't yet been updated. Perhaps it will all be sorted by Monday? Hope so, as it's a useful resource.

 

[will1337]

They all say last revised yesterday

 

[John @ home]

They all say last revised yesterday

Agreed, they do say that. But they have said that for several weeks and the links are all to NFM 98, which expired yesterday.

At the last NFM revision, both old and new versions were available for a period. Hence my concern. I have asked nationalrail.co.uk how one can access the current NFM.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have asked nationalrail.co.uk how one can access the current NFM.

John

Slow progress, I'm afraid:

john @ home to ATOC 18 May 2008 19:49

The parts of the National Fares Manual (NFM) made
available online to the public are now out of date.

The links at
http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/manuals.html
refer to NFM 98, which has expired.

Please tell me how members of the public may access the current
version of the National Fares Manual.

ATOC to john @ home 19 May 2008 03:55

Thank you for your eMail regarding the National Fares Manual.

The number after the abbreviation 'NFM' is the version number of the
National Fares Manual, not the annual version representing the date, as it
is released at least twice a year. The old versions of the National Fares
Manual may still be found if you swap the two numbers in the web address to
a previous version number.

http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM98/NFM98_Common_D.pdf
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM96/NFM96_Common_D.pdf

I trust this information will be of use to you.

john @ home to ATOC 19 May 2008 17:51

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Thanks also for telling me how to access old versions of the National Fares
Manual. I will find that useful, but not as useful as access to the current version of the NFM.

My problem is that the site does not appear to give access to the current
version. When I wrote to you yesterday,
http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/manuals.html
gave access to NFM 98, which was valid from 2 January to 17 May 2008.
Today, this link returns a "File not Found"error.

Please tell me how to access the current version of the National Fares
Manual, presumably NFM 99.

I will update this thread with any further progress.

John

 

[me123]

Wonderful; loved your line

"Thanks also for telling me how to access old versions of the National Fares
Manual. I will find that useful, but not as useful as access to the current version of the NFM."

I'm sure you'll get it soon enough. I've always wondered, though, why it's such a closely guarded secret. Surely the whole manual should be available to the public?

 

[Ascot]

No chance buddy, http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/brcbookshop/bookstore.asp?FO=1241783 ATOC are stopping selling them, see http://groups.google.com/group/uk.r...ad/ae2aa2606b7d9f28/2126817c9f1839df?lnk=raot
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just rang national rail up, asked for validity codes, said they are not allowed to give it according to their supervisor, asked if it was against the charter to not know our tickets. So asked to speak to their supervisor and after a bit of a discussion he said to ring up Virgin Trains and ask them for the validity code restrictions since they are obliged to. Next Stop ORR.

 

[John @ home]

Just rang national rail up, asked for validity codes, said they are not allowed to give it according to their supervisor,

But validity codes on their own are not enough. For example, the thread "Chiltern Fares" on uk.railway states that NFM 99 changes validity code PU (Chiltern Super Off Peak Single/Return) to exclude travel from London before 11:00 on Sundays.

But this information is not public, and is contradicted by the Chiltern web site in three places.

It seems to me that a great deal of the information in the NFM needs to be made available to the public in order for the TOCs to operate within their franchises.

We await ATOC's next response.

John

 

[Ascot]

But validity codes on their own are not enough. For example, the thread "Chiltern Fares" on uk.railway states that NFM 99 changes validity code PU (Chiltern Super Off Peak Single/Return) to exclude travel from London before 11:00 on Sundays.

But this information is not public, and is contradicted by the Chiltern web site in three places.

It seems to me that a great deal of the information in the NFM needs to be made available to the public in order for the TOCs to operate within their franchises.

We await ATOC's next response.

John

Validity Codes for each ticket can be found http://contract.evolvi.co.uk/tmc/
However finding out what each validity code says IS the problem.

 

[djw1981]

This reverts to the fact that ATOc is still designed (as it was in the pre-internet days) to sell tickets through agents (TOC Ticket offices, Travel Agents etc) - these people would look up all the restrictions for you etc.

 

[Ascot]

If we don't know the conditions however then i guess the public can only go by what has been published and not hidden somewhere?

 

[John @ home]

It has been pointed out to me that some sections of NFM 99 are available at:

http://www.atoctravelagents.org/clientfiles/File/Rail Directory/NFM99/NFM99 E.pdf
which gives Section E.

Change the E before .pdf to a different letter to obtain that Section. I have been able to get Sections E F G H K and L.
Do tell us if you find any more.

Let's see how long it takes for ATOC to give me this info.

John

 

[djw1981]

Because you should ask you agent for the conditions...i guess will be AT#ATOCs advice.......

 

[yorkie]

Because you should ask you agent for the conditions...i guess will be AT#ATOCs advice.......

Hang on a minute. I know that ATOC do not like us having easy access to the restriction codes and the meanings of the codes because the are worried that we may too easily find the hundreds of loopholes that exist, but I thought that if we phoned NRES they are obliged to tell us what the restrictions are for an individual ticket that we ask them about? They can't refuse this information surely!!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

They have to tell you the restrictions but do not have to confirm the code, just the same as any ticket office or sales point, internet or otherwise.

For example:

They can tell you that the saver return from Manchester to Halifax is valid anytime, but don't have to say it is code 8A.

I don't really see the point in them telling you the code though, they have to explain the restriction anyway.

Loopholes in the fares structure are easy-ish to find with all the journey planners around these days, and they take ticket restrictions into account anyway.

 

[Ascot]

Dear Mark Williams,

Thank you for your eMail.

The information you require can be found through the following link:

http://www.atoctravelagents.org/clientfiles/File/Rail Directory/NFM99/NFM99 E.pdf

Once again thank you for your eMail and I trust this information will be of use.

Regards,

<removed>
Customer Services
www.nationalrail.co.uk

National Rail Enquiries
Best Use of Technology Partnership, Contact Centre Association Awards 2007 TrainTracker - Innovation of the Year Award, Transport Innovations 2007 Supplier of the Year - Rail Business Awards 2004 & 2006 Best Outsourced Call Centre - Contact Centre Association Awards 2005 TrainTracker - Product of the Year, European Call Centre Awards 2005 Live Departure Boards - Innovation of the Year, National Rail Awards 2004 TrainTracker – 0871 200 4950 TrainTracker Text – SMS your station name to 484950
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Next step is seeking information for what ticket has what validity code and see what they say.

 

[John @ home]

Dear Mark Williams,

Thank you for your eMail.

The information you require can be found through the following link:
http://www.atoctravelagents.org/clie.../NFM99 E.pdf

Once again thank you for your eMail and I trust this information will be of use.

Regards,

<removed>
Customer Services
www.nationalrail.co.uk

In contrast, the reply to me was less helpful (and less accurate):

ATOC to john @ home 20 May 2008 05:43
Thank you for your eMail.
After checking the current version with our Communications Team, they have confirmed that the current version of the National Fares Manual is Version 99.
However, this information is not provided on our [nationalrail.co.uk] website and the ATOC website.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused by this issue, and I have passed the details of your eMail to our Technical Support Team, who will investigate the issue that you have raised.
I would like to thank you for your patience and co-operation whilst we resolve this issue.


John