National Rail Enquiries (Birchwood-Yeovil)

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Pen Mill

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Is this used by TOCs ?

My 87 yo father arrived last night from Birchwood into Yeovil Junction on a ticket that says Birchwood-Yeovil Junction Offpeak Rtn at a cost of £70.70M
I told him to book Yeovil via Manchester Piccadilly.
The TOC salesman at Birchwood (TPE) told him firstly that there wasn't a station at Yeovil and then found Junction (but not Pen Mill) and routed him via Basingstoke.

I knew that there was a fare on a slightly quicker journey to Pen Mill via MAN & BRI of £64.90 Off peak return abd was surprised that thge salesman never found this.

A number of questions arise :- 1) Why was the operator not able to locate both stations at Yeovil.
2)Where does this fare of £70.70 come from because I'm getting a fare of £74.20 for Junction
3) This is my real question !! - Can he travel home (next Tuesday) from Yeovil Pen Mill via Bristol & Man Picc even though it says Yeovil Junction on the ticket ? as this would be my preferred choice for him
 
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maniacmartin

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2) £70.70 is the price of a SVR OFF-PEAK R routed NOT VIA LONDON, when a railcard discount is applied. Does he have a railcard, such a Senior Railcard?

3) I don't see how this ticket can be excessed to allow travel from Pen Mill, as its on a different line totally. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come up with a way to do this. EDIT: see below

As to why the operator couldn't locate Yeovil Pen Mill, I have no idea!
 
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Greenback

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Redspottedhanky brings up an off peak return at £70.70 with a senior railcard. My guess is that is the default result base don speed, though there are three changes - Warrington, Wolverhampton and Basingstoke.

I have tried searching for slower routes, but it still comes up with the same fare and route.

Did your dad ask for Junction specifically?
 

maniacmartin

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Yeovil Pen Mill, Bristol Parkway and Manchester Picadilly lie on the shortest route from Yeovil Junction to Birchwood, and this route is not via London, so its permitted

The ticket doesn't appear to have any restriction on break of journeys, so you can just start short at Yeovil Pen Mill on the current ticket.

(I'd appreciate if someone else could check this)
 

maniacmartin

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So there is...

31 Journeys to Yeovil Pen Mill may not go via Yeovil Junction and journeys to
Yeovil Junction may not go via Yeovil Pen Mill. This prohibition applies in
both directions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not that I'd advise the OP's elderly father try and argue the technicalities, but the instructions at the beginning of the Routeing Guide themselves say

"You only need refer to the Routeing Guide when a customer is not using an advertised through train or the shortest route". TCBC makes this assumption and I'm sure this has come up on the forum before.

To play it safe, using map BD there is a route from Yeovil Junction to Birchwood changing at Salisbury, Bristol Temple Meads and Manchester Picadilly. This shows up in National Rail Enquiries when the appropriate via points are added.

You could buy a SDS Anytime Sgl (£8.30 with Senior Railcard) from Yeovil Pen Mill to Westbury and pick up train from Salisbury there (a cursory glance indicates they stop there)
 
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John @ home

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There's a negative easement that blocks that I think.
Easements do not restrict travel by the shortest route.
National Routeing Guide - Instructions said:
Most customers wish to make journeys by through trains or by the shortest route. In both cases they will be travelling on a permitted route, provided the correct fare has been paid to reflect any routeing indicated by the fares manual. You only need refer to the Routeing Guide when a customer is not using an advertised through train or the shortest route.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/instructions.pdf
(My bold)
 

Pen Mill

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OK
We'll go back via Basingstoke , I'm just brassed off that it's cost him £6 more for a longer journey.

He asked for Yeovil because that's what I told him to do , he didn't even know Junction existed as such. He also asked for via Man Picc because I thimk it's the least hassle route

I thought the Ticket office would pull the YVP option up automatically.
I won't rely on them again.
He's actually got a printout which details
BWD-MAN-BSK-YVJ @ 70.70.not the via Warrington that someone mentioned.
He has a senior railcard but when I put via Man Pic to Yeovil stations with Senior Railcard,I GET £74.20 FOR YVJ AND £64.90 FOR YVP

What is the official medium here , NRE or Redspottedhanky ?

Thanks for all your responses.
 

Greenback

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OK
We'll go back via Basingstoke , I'm just brassed off that it's cost him £6 more for a longer journey.

He asked for Yeovil because that's what I told him to do , he didn't even know Junction existed as such. He also asked for via Man Picc because I thimk it's the least hassle route

I thought the Ticket office would pull the YVP option up automatically.
I won't rely on them again.
He's actually got a printout which details
BWD-MAN-BSK-YVJ @ 70.70.not the via Warrington that someone mentioned.
He has a senior railcard but when I put via Man Pic to Yeovil stations with Senior Railcard,I GET £74.20 FOR YVJ AND £64.90 FOR YVP

What is the official medium here , NRE or Redspottedhanky ?

Thanks for all your responses.
There is no official medium. I tend to go directly to a TOC website (or Redspottedhanky) because you can't buy tickets from National Rail. I also prefer the Webtis based sites rather than those that use the Trainline engine.

How much is Birchwood to Yeovil Pen Mill? I didn't check that, I only looked at Yeovil Junction. Logic would suggest it would be the same, but there is nothing logical about our fares system!
 

John @ home

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Yeovil Pen Mill, Bristol Parkway and Manchester Picadilly lie on the shortest route from Yeovil Junction to Birchwood, ...

(I'd appreciate if someone else could check this)
This calculation appears to be from railmiles, which measures shortest distance by rail, not the shortest distance over which a passenger service operates.
Distance: 246mi 45ch -
Route: Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Pen Mill, Castle Cary, Bruton, East Somerset Junction, Blatchbridge Junction, Clink Road Junction, Fairwood Junction, Westbury, Hawkeridge Junction, Trowbridge, Bradford Junction, Bradford-on-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bathampton Junction, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Twerton, Keynsham, North Somerset Junction, Dr Days Junction, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road, Filton Abbey Wood, Filton Junction, Bristol Parkway, Westerleigh Junction, Yate South Junction, Yate, Yate Middle Junction, Charfield, Berkeley Road Junction, Cam & Dursley, Standish Junction, Gloucester Yard Junction, Barnwood Junction, Cheltenham Spa, Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, Eckington Loop, Abbotswood Junction, Spetchley Loop, Stoke Works Junction, Bromsgrove, Blackwell, Barnt Green, Longbridge, Northfield, Kings Norton, Lifford West Junction, Bournville, Selly Oak, University, Five Ways, Birmingham New Street, Monument Lane, Soho South Junction, Soho North Junction, Smethwick Rolfe Street, Galton Junction, Smethwick Galton Bridge (Low Level), Sandwell & Dudley, Albion Ground Frame, Dudley Port, Watery Lane, Tipton, Coseley, Monmore Green British Oxygen, Wolverhampton Crane Street Junction, Wolverhampton, Wolverhampton North Junction, Bushbury Junction, Four Ashes Loop, Littleton Rowntree Mackintosh, Penkridge, Rickerscote, Stafford Trent Valley Junction, Stafford, Norton Bridge, Stone, Stone Junction, Barlaston, Wedgwood, Stoke Junction, Stoke-On-Trent, Etruria, Longport, Kidsgrove, Congleton, Macclesfield, Prestbury, Adlington (Cheshire), Poynton, Bramhall, Cheadle Hulme, Adswood Road, Stockport Edgeley Junction No 1, Stockport Edgeley Junction No 2, Stockport, Heaton Norris Junction, Heaton Chapel, Levenshulme, Slade Lane Junction, Longsight South, Ardwick Junction, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate, Castlefield Junction, Cornbrook Junction, Manchester United Football Ground, Trafford Park, Humphrey Park, Urmston, Chassen Road, Flixton, Irlam, Glazebrook East Junction And Sidings, Glazebrook, Birchwood

http://mileage.railmiles.org/
Four comments:
  • There is no passenger service Yeovil Jn - Yeovil PM.
  • Yeovil PM - Westbury trains go via Frome. The shortest route takes the Frome avoiding line.
  • There is no passenger service from Keynsham to Lawrence Hill avoiding Bristol TM, although there is a service in the opposite direction.
  • There is no passenger service Manchester United Football Ground - Urmston.
 

maniacmartin

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Thanks for clearing that up John @ Home. Its a good job no-one blindly follows my defective advice:(
 

bb21

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Further to John @ Home's post above, the shortest route between Birchwood and Yeovil Junction is 278.25 miles, via Manchester Pic, Wolves and Reading.

The shortest route between Birchwood and Yeovil Pen Mill is 246.5 miles, via Manchester Pic, Birmingham NS, Bristol TM and Westbury. To go Birchwood - Yeovil Junction via Pen Mill you are looking at following the aforementioned route, then doubling back from Pen Mill via Westbury and Salisbury, adding an additional 95 miles, so it is not on the shortest route (or + 3 miles).

If only there is a regular scheduled service on the Yeovil curve...
 
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