National Rail Equiries: Is it me or is it a bit broken as of late?

[Kazington]

Apologies if in wrong place, debated either posting here or the Fares section.

Anyway, last month I was booking a journey from Cambridge to Manchester, specifying a change at Stevenage and avoiding London. Simple enough, right? Wrong.
NRE would often "forget" my details or interchange my "Change at SVG" to "Via SVG", thus taking me through London, and attempting to change these details often required a lot of refreshing, restarting and unnecessary stress.
Once I'd finally found the fare I was looking for, it got worse.

There specified was a £31.70 First Advance, CBG to MAN, changing at Stevenage and Doncaster. Very nice. Go to buy it from EC, and the fare simply doesn't exist. I tried on practically every other site I could think of. VT, EM, GA, FCC, TTrainline, absolutely nothing.
Tried different browsers, tried different devices (android phone and tablet), same stuff. I had to eventually settle for splitting the journey at my cost, an anytime single CBG to SVG, then the original plan from there to Manchester. What happened to cause that exact fare to vaporise just before purchase? It baffles me.

The return leg was far smoother though, so there's that. It's left me somewhat anxious that if the first leg between CBG and SVG gets delayed at any point, I can kiss the rest of my journey goodbye as it's considered two separate parts.

More recently however, booking an off peak ticket between CBG and London LST, it got confused. I selected one that was GA Routes only, but the return legs it offered told me to take the tube to King's Cross and go from there. I'd understand if it was due to engineering works, but this is a Wednesday evening, there are no works. FCC's website reports it correctly however and I'm able to select trains as applicable.
For a system that's supposed to use the same database, it's very fragmented and glitchy. The only reason I use it is the ability to be very specific about your routing (multiple via/avoid/interchange) - when it works. Other systems really lack that functionality and it saddens me.

On a further note, a friend purchased an advance single from LST to CBG. Direct train under any other circumstance, but the ticket he got was via Ipswich. I don't even understand how that's possible.

 

[Searle]

The return leg was far smoother though, so there's that. It's left me somewhat anxious that if the first leg between CBG and SVG gets delayed at any point, I can kiss the rest of my journey goodbye as it's considered two separate parts.

If it makes you feel any better, even with split tickets, you'll be allowed on the next available train if your first train is delayed, even on advances.

 

[sbatts43]

If it makes you feel any better, even with split tickets, you'll be allowed on the next available train if your first train is delayed, even on advances.

I never never use NRE. Usually First Great Western or Trainline.

 

[Kazington]

If it makes you feel any better, even with split tickets, you'll be allowed on the next available train if your first train is delayed, even on advances.

Can I get a second opinion on this? I know this is true if for example a journey between A and D gets disrupted due to A-B having problems, but that was if the ticket was non-split.

I never never use NRE. Usually First Great Western or Trainline.

FGW uses mixing deck like many others (though theirs seems best designed by far), and trainline uses a system almost identical to VT, but they tack on that booking fee.

 

[najaB]

Can I get a second opinion on this? I know this is true if for example a journey between A and D gets disrupted due to A-B having problems, but that was if the ticket was non-split.

But a split ticket is just two journeys that happen to have a station in common. What's more, if it's a true split then your second train will be delayed by as much as the first since they'd be the same train!

 

[SickyNicky]

Can I get a second opinion on this? I know this is true if for example a journey between A and D gets disrupted due to A-B having problems, but that was if the ticket was non-split.

Yes - I can categorically confirm that if you are delayed on split advances you are entitled to take the next appropriate train (given the routing on your ticket). For more details, see our fares and ticketing guide.

 

[Atishyou]

I never never use NRE. Usually First Great Western or Trainline.

You probably don't use Nre for tickets as you can't use NRE to buy tickets.

The site refers you to the train operators.

 

[MrJamesBrown]

Apologies if in wrong place, debated either posting here or the Fares section.

Anyway, last month I was booking a journey from Cambridge to Manchester, specifying a change at Stevenage and avoiding London. Simple enough, right? Wrong.
NRE would often "forget" my details or interchange my "Change at SVG" to "Via SVG", thus taking me through London, and attempting to change these details often required a lot of refreshing, restarting and unnecessary stress.
Once I'd finally found the fare I was looking for, it got worse.

There specified was a £31.70 First Advance, CBG to MAN, changing at Stevenage and Doncaster. Very nice. Go to buy it from EC, and the fare simply doesn't exist. I tried on practically every other site I could think of. VT, EM, GA, FCC, TTrainline, absolutely nothing.
Tried different browsers, tried different devices (android phone and tablet), same stuff. I had to eventually settle for splitting the journey at my cost, an anytime single CBG to SVG, then the original plan from there to Manchester. What happened to cause that exact fare to vaporise just before purchase? It baffles me.

The return leg was far smoother though, so there's that. It's left me somewhat anxious that if the first leg between CBG and SVG gets delayed at any point, I can kiss the rest of my journey goodbye as it's considered two separate parts.

More recently however, booking an off peak ticket between CBG and London LST, it got confused. I selected one that was GA Routes only, but the return legs it offered told me to take the tube to King's Cross and go from there. I'd understand if it was due to engineering works, but this is a Wednesday evening, there are no works. FCC's website reports it correctly however and I'm able to select trains as applicable.
For a system that's supposed to use the same database, it's very fragmented and glitchy. The only reason I use it is the ability to be very specific about your routing (multiple via/avoid/interchange) - when it works. Other systems really lack that functionality and it saddens me.

On a further note, a friend purchased an advance single from LST to CBG. Direct train under any other circumstance, but the ticket he got was via Ipswich. I don't even understand how that's possible.

Also if you want to avoid going via a particular route, why not use the avoid function available in sites that use mixing deck?

 

[yorkie]

Apologies if in wrong place, debated either posting here or the Fares section.

It's a fares matter so I've moved it.

Anyway, last month I was booking a journey from Cambridge to Manchester, specifying a change at Stevenage and avoiding London. Simple enough, right? Wrong.
NRE would often "forget" my details or interchange my "Change at SVG" to "Via SVG", thus taking me through London, and attempting to change these details often required a lot of refreshing, restarting and unnecessary stress.
Once I'd finally found the fare I was looking for, it got worse.

NRE only provides advice, you cannot book ticket using it.

There specified was a £31.70 First Advance, CBG to MAN, changing at Stevenage and Doncaster. Very nice. Go to buy it from EC, and the fare simply doesn't exist. I tried on practically every other site I could think of. VT, EM, GA, FCC, TTrainline, absolutely nothing.

If you can give us the date and time of travel, we can look.

The websites you mention have not got as may options as NRE, so a complex ticket request may need to go through a booking office.

Tried different browsers, tried different devices (android phone and tablet), same stuff. I had to eventually settle for splitting the journey at my cost, an anytime single CBG to SVG, then the original plan from there to Manchester. What happened to cause that exact fare to vaporise just before purchase? It baffles me.

The fare probably did exist but the booking engines may not have been able to sell it.

The return leg was far smoother though, so there's that. It's left me somewhat anxious that if the first leg between CBG and SVG gets delayed at any point, I can kiss the rest of my journey goodbye as it's considered two separate parts.

That's not true - you are covered for the whole journey, and a journey may consist of two or more tickets. This is detailed in the T&Cs and NRCoC, and clarified in our Fares Guide, which has a link to the policy applied by the rail industry.

More recently however, booking an off peak ticket between CBG and London LST, it got confused. I selected one that was GA Routes only, but the return legs it offered told me to take the tube to King's Cross and go from there. I'd understand if it was due to engineering works, but this is a Wednesday evening, there are no works. FCC's website reports it correctly however and I'm able to select trains as applicable.

Can you post a separate thread and provide full details and screenshots please?

For a system that's supposed to use the same database, it's very fragmented and glitchy. The only reason I use it is the ability to be very specific about your routing (multiple via/avoid/interchange) - when it works. Other systems really lack that functionality and it saddens me.

Agreed

On a further note, a friend purchased an advance single from LST to CBG. Direct train under any other circumstance, but the ticket he got was via Ipswich. I don't even understand how that's possible.

Can your friend take a photo of the tickets and any coupons and take a screenshot of the booking confirmation?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Anyway, last month I was booking a journey from Cambridge to Manchester, specifying a change at Stevenage and avoiding London. Simple enough, right?

Not necessarily; most booking systems can't handle both "via" and "avoid" stations at the same time. Even if NRE can handle it, as yorkie said, the request might get muddled when it's being passed to one of the train company sites to do the booking.

Specifying "via Huntingdon" should have much the same effect I would think, and be a bit more foolproof.

 

[RJ]

Not necessarily; most booking systems can't handle both "via" and "avoid" stations at the same time. Even if NRE can handle it, as yorkie said, the request might get muddled when it's being passed to one of the train company sites to do the booking.

Specifying "via Huntingdon" should have much the same effect I would think, and be a bit more foolproof.

WebTiS does support two, three in a way, at a push. Got it to show the aforementioned Manchester to Cambridge journey with no problems --> Image.

 

[Kazington]

If you can give us the date and time of travel, we can look.

22nd August, CBG > SVG 9:55-10:40, with the SVG to MAN portion 10:55-14:02

That's not true - you are covered for the whole journey, and a journey may consist of two or more tickets. This is detailed in the T&Cs and NRCoC, and clarified in our Fares Guide, which has a link to the policy applied by the rail industry.

Handy, cheers.

Can you post a separate thread and provide full details and screenshots please?

Will do, if I can replicate it.

Can your friend take a photo of the tickets and any coupons and take a screenshot of the booking confirmation?

All he sent to me was this, with the added note that it was a direct train (as one would expect) and that it was via Stansted Mountfitchet, though whether it was explicitly specified is unknown - to my knowledge, they all stop/go via there regardless.

Specifying "via Huntingdon" should have much the same effect I would think, and be a bit more foolproof.

Tried that, it sent me up to Peterborough and back down the ECML towards London.

WebTiS does support two, three in a way, at a push. Got it to show the aforementioned Manchester to Cambridge journey with no problems --> Image.

Return journey works fine which is what you've got there, it's the outward part that gave me the headache.

 

[D6975]

I've had problems when trying to specify increased change times.
When you switch from NRE to FGW or whatever to buy the ticket, the increased change time sometimes gets lost. Most annoying if the TOC site doesn't allow you to put it back in.
The last time it happened I had to book at the ticket office rather than online in order to get the times I wanted.

 

[maniacmartin]

Regarding the 'via Ipswich' thing, this is a bug with WebTIS and possible other engines, and it has affected me before. In my case, I was booking Advances on the Liverpool Street - Cambirdge line, and the confirmation email came detailing this route 'via Ipswich', however the itineraries displayed on the website and in the email didn't involve going via Ipswich at all - it showed the obvious route via Bishops Stortford. When I collected the tickets, they did not have via Ipswich printed anywhere on them

 

[Kazington]

Yeah, sounds similar to what happened here. I'll update as and when I know more.

 

[Paul Kelly]

This is another instance of a numerical route code (used in the fares data) being changed and not all sources being updated.
Route code 00428 used to be "AP IPSWICH", but now it is "AP GRT ANG ONLY".

 

[RJ]

There specified was a £31.70 First Advance, CBG to MAN, changing at Stevenage and Doncaster. Very nice. Go to buy it from EC, and the fare simply doesn't exist. I tried on practically every other site I could think of. VT, EM, GA, FCC, TTrainline, absolutely nothing.
Tried different browsers, tried different devices (android phone and tablet), same stuff. I had to eventually settle for splitting the journey at my cost, an anytime single CBG to SVG, then the original plan from there to Manchester. What happened to cause that exact fare to vaporise just before purchase? It baffles me.

22nd August, CBG > SVG 9:55-10:40, with the SVG to MAN portion 10:55-14:02

...

Return journey works fine which is what you've got there, it's the outward part that gave me the headache.

£31.70 is a railcard fare. There aren't any non railcard fares between Cambridge and Manchester for £31.70, so can I assume that you intend to use one?

If you are, they appear to be down to £29.70 now. In this case, Indigo2's solution of using Huntingdon as a via point works. Alternatively, you could input two via points - one to avoid London and another to change trains at Stevenage.

--> Some available times
--> Your itinerary

As for NRE, the best way to manipulate the planner is to change the URL using the correct syntax - finding this is a chore in itself. Once you get the station name in a format NRE likes, it will allow one via station and one avoid station to be applied at the same time.

 

[infobleep]

I take it multiple via and avoid are not allowed.

 

[Kazington]

£31.70 is a railcard fare. There aren't any non railcard fares between Cambridge and Manchester for £31.70, so can I assume that you intend to use one?

If you are, they appear to be down to £29.70 now. In this case, Indigo2's solution of using Huntingdon as a via point works. Alternatively, you could input two via points - one to avoid London and another to change trains at Stevenage.

--> Some available times
--> Your itinerary

As for NRE, the best way to manipulate the planner is to change the URL using the correct syntax - finding this is a chore in itself. Once you get the station name in a format NRE likes, it will allow one via station and one avoid station to be applied at the same time.

Yeah, railcard. Did I not mention that in the original post? Oops.
That syntax is a killer at times though. In hindsight, specifying via HUN would have alleviated a lot of the issues had I not forgotten of its existence, as I'm able to find the same train easily. Still doesn't excuse NRE for being a pile of buggy crap though.

 

[Romilly]

If using the East Coast website, it is possible to specify a via or avoid station and then at the bottom of the search box click on Timetables. (NB "via" means going via but not necessarily calling.) On the Timetables page it is possible to specify a station at which you want trains to actually call. If you update, you will have the benefit of your original via/avoid option and your "call at" option. NB unless you clear the "call at" box and update again, the journey planner will remember your "call at" option on future searches even though the "call at" box appears to be blank.

 

[RJ]

I take it multiple via and avoid are not allowed.

Well, you can but NRE won't do what you want it to.

For example, if you search NRE for a journey from London to Sheffield and add Tamworth and Chesterfield as via points, it will give you the fastest routes that pass through either Tamworth or Chesterfield.

What it won't do is give routes that pass through both Tamworth and Chesterfield - unless there just so happens to be a journey passing through both that isn't "overtaken" by another itinerary.

It's a nuisance for long distance journeys - if you have a ticket from Southampton to Glasgow for example, you can't use the NRE journey planner to find out if you're allowed to pass through both London and Derby for example.