National Rail Games Train Tickets

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Dave A

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Hi all,

Does anyone know if the National Rail Games Travel website is allowed to make this statement under the NRCoC and will it be enforced?

All ticket holders must carry their 2012 Games spectator ticket or official London 2012 accreditation passes with them when they travel. If you fail to produce a valid 2012 Games spectator ticket or valid London 2012 accreditation with your train ticket, a new ticket must be purchased as if no ticket was held

I ask because quite a few journeys I've checked on nationalrailgamestravel.co.uk seem to be cheaper than nationalrail.co.uk or the TOC's own website...
 
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rail-britain

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Does anyone know if the National Rail Games Travel website is allowed to make this statement under the NRCoC and will it be enforced?
Yes, as the seller is advising you of additional terms prior to sale; NRCOC, ticket terms, and conditions, all form part of sale of this ticket type
 

soil

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Good spot.

Just saw Woking-Weymouth is only £15.70 single, or £26.20 in First for today.

Compares with £44.60 single for a walk-up fare or £44.90 for a return; £74 in First.

It says:

Tickets for the return journey, i.e. from London or one of the co-Host cities, are valid for travel at any time on the date shown on your ticket and up to midday the following day. If you are still travelling at midday the following day, then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey, but no further break of journey is allowed.

If you are travelling on the day of your Games event in London, then you can use your Games Travelcard in conjunction with your 2012 Games train tickets to complete your journey.

If you are travelling to/from London on a date either side of your Games event, your 2012 Games train tickets are valid to/from the central London terminus relevant to the journey you are making.

All ticket holders must carry their 2012 Games spectator ticket with them when they travel. If you fail to produce a valid 2012 Games spectator ticket with your train ticket, a new ticket must be purchased as if no ticket was held.

Railcard holders travelling on a discounted ticket must carry their valid Railcard when they travel. If a Railcard holder fails to produce a valid Railcard with their train ticket, a new ticket must be purchased as if no Railcard and/or no ticket were held.


They had some cheap tickets to the sailing on the Olympics website that might have made ticket + Olympic tickets cheaper than the rail tickets alone, but that is now no longer the case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It seems you could use any Olympic ticket? Although I think they are a pain to pickup now, there are plenty of £20 tickets with children paying their age for the football.

And if you've already got Olympic tickets you can use them to travel to random unrelated destinations on the same day, previous day, or following day?

I am tempted to buy one and travel short on it.

"You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just going over the t+cs again:

"CONDITIONS OF USE. Tickets for the outward journey, i.e. to London or one of the co-Host cities, are valid for travel at any time on the date shown on the ticket.

Tickets for the return journey, i.e. from London or one of the co-Host cities, are valid for travel at any time on the date shown on your ticket and up to midday the following day. If you are still travelling at midday the following day, then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey, but no further break of journey is allowed."

Ok, it's valid on the date on the ticket. That's standard.

"If you are travelling to/from London on a date either side of your Games event, your 2012 Games train tickets are valid to/from the central London terminus relevant to the journey you are making."

I'm travelling from Woking to Weymouth so this isn't relevant.

"All ticket holders must carry their 2012 Games spectator ticket with them when they travel. If you fail to produce a valid 2012 Games spectator ticket with your train ticket, a new ticket must be purchased as if no ticket was held."

I have a valid ticket, for the boxing gold medal match at Excel. It doesn't say

(a) the ticket needs to be for the location I specify
(b) the ticket needs to be on the date of travel

So looks I can travel for the next couple of weeks at a much reduced cost.

Woking-Stratford (or similar - this is Woking - Waterloo plus a tube journey) at £3.40 in the morning peak is quite a deal, or £5.50 in first, but I suspect this term:

"
If you are travelling to/from London on a date either side of your Games event, your 2012 Games train tickets are valid to/from the central London terminus relevant to the journey you are making.
"

could be used to deny travel.
 
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thedbdiboy

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Hi all,

Does anyone know if the National Rail Games Travel website is allowed to make this statement under the NRCoC and will it be enforced?

The short the answer is yes. These products were created by the train companies through ATOC at the behest of the DfT and the ODA and this was one of the conditions enforced by all bodies, so don't expect any breaking of ranks on this one!
 

causton

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"
If you are travelling to/from London on a date either side of your Games event, your 2012 Games train tickets are valid to/from the central London terminus relevant to the journey you are making.
"

could be used to deny travel.

Is that not because the ticket is effectively an Origin - Boundary Zone 6 return on the date of the event, as they would have a Games Travelcard? :)
 

soil

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Is that not because the ticket is effectively an Origin - Boundary Zone 6 return on the date of the event, as they would have a Games Travelcard? :)

That's a good point.

I think it's actually an Origin-London Terminals ticket though.

Even though they don't say so, I think a ticket to 'London Games' is only valid to London Terminals and then you are expected to complete your journey using your travelcard.

It looks like you might be able to use it for unconnected commuting if you've got random Olympic tickets you can brandish....

Pricing appears to be around one third (i.e. a 66% discount) of the cost of an SDS ticket.
 

soil

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I was thinking that. My Paralympic day pass - £10 including unlimited Z1-9 travel.
And how much is a Z1-9 travelcard, along with Javelin fares? :P

Well yes, but I was actually thinking that if you held Olympic tickets for say August 3rd, you could use it to buy Games Trains Tickets any random date up to 14th September 2012, since the ticket appears to permit travel in both directions providing you hold a 'valid Olympic ticket'

"The bookable travel period will be from 18 July 2012 until 14 September 2012, to allow for those spectators who plan to arrive before the Games start, or slightly delay their return."

" the 2012 Games Train Tickets are exclusively for holders of Games spectator tickets and London 2012 Games volunteers.
Please note, holders of Olympic Park tickets who don't have specific Games event tickets are not eligible to buy 2012 Games Train Tickets."

I guess that commuter stations just outside London will give the biggest savings.

Clearly it's entirely valid and in keeping if I hold a ticket for say sailing at Weymouth to travel to Weymouth 2 weeks before the event.

And since apparently there's nothing tieing the venue of the Olympic tickets to the rail tickets, then you can basically use random Olympic tickets to get discounts on totally unconnected travel in any direction on any date up to 14th September.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It looks like the system has a bug.

These are the available destinations:

London Terminals
Weymouth
Maidenhead
Windsor & Eton Riverside
Slough
Sevenoaks (The Games at Brands Hatch)
Leigh On Sea (The Games at Hadley Farm)
Rayleigh
Reading
Staines
Weybridge

Manchester Stations
Deansgate
Altrincham
Cardiff
Coventry
Glasgow
Newcastle

However I tried Woking-The Games at Brand Hatch (Sevenoaks) and it tells me to travel to Waterloo and then use my Games Travelcard to reach Sevenoaks.

It looks like for routes that go via London this is always suggested.

E.g., Stansted-The Games At Eton Dorney just routes to London (which is correct) but then advises the use of a Games Travelcard to travel to Eton Dorney (which isn't).

I am not clear if they would issue a valid ticket or not, nor what would actually be printed on the ticket.
 

MikeWh

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The games travelcard is also valid to stations like Sevenoaks when used in conjunction with a games ticket for that venue.
 

soil

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Ok that makes sense then.

"If you have a ticket for an event at Brands Hatch, Eton Dorney, Hadleigh Farm or the Lee Valley White Water Centre, you’ll also receive a Games Travelcard.

As well as being valid on public transport in London zones 1–9, you can use your Games Travelcard to travel by National Rail between London and Sevenoaks (for Brands Hatch); Slough and Windsor & Eton Riverside (for Eton Dorney); Leigh-on-Sea (for Hadleigh Farm); and Cheshunt (for Lee Valley White Water Centre).

If you have a ticket for an event at a co-Host City venue, you will not receive a Games Travelcard to use on public transport. These venues are: Weymouth and Portland; the City of Coventry Stadium, Coventry; Old Trafford, Manchester; Millennium Stadium, Cardiff; Hampden Park, Glasgow; and, St James’ Park, Newcastle."

Map:
http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/spectators/Travel/01/25/17/96/GamesTravelcardmap_Neutral.pdf

I tried Woking - Rowing (Eton Dorney) and it prices at £3.40, which is the same as Woking - London, and it gives options including Woking-Guildford-Reading-Slough (which is valid on a Woking-Slough via Reading ticket) but then says the they aren't valid with the £3.40 ticket - Woking-Eton Dorney effectively works out as Woking-Staines, where you can pick up the London-Windsor & Eton Riverside service, on which the travelcard is valid. Still cheaper than Woking-Staines ticket on its own, although not by much on a return.

Also I checked Swindon-Slough and the price (Advance tickets only, no SDSes) is the same as Swindon-London.

So I guess the stations near London are probably not going to give any cheaper prices than just tickets to London
 

Dave A

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Thanks for your answers so far. I'm a bit disappointed with this, not just because of the prices, but they seem to have taken up the "Advance" fares ticket allocation on some journeys. This means that even booking a couple of months before the cheapest from Bristol - Paddington and back is still £16.50 each way (with YP Railcard) when it would usually be £9.90 - £14.xx... :(
 

rail-britain

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It seems you could use any Olympic ticket?
And if you've already got Olympic tickets you can use them to travel to random unrelated destinations on the same day, previous day, or following day?
Yes, pretty much providing the Olympic Ticket is relevant to either a London event, or a Games Event outside London, or a co-Host City Event

This is to allow discounted travel throughout
Primarily it is intended for discounted travel to/from the event, and between the persons home town or city and London within a few days of attending the event
However the discount also allows further rail discounts at any time, to travel to other areas of interest, attractions, etc
 

soil

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Yes, pretty much providing the Olympic Ticket is relevant to either a London event, or a Games Event outside London, or a co-Host City Event

I'm not sure what you mean by 'relevant'.

As far as I can tell any Olympic or Paralympic event ticket on any date gives an entitlement to Games Tickets in any direction on any date up to 14th September. So a ticket to the Paralympic Boxing would give a discount for example throught the period, but an Olympic Orbit ticket (the tower thing) would not.

I guess the value of the discounts vary by route and TOC.

So e.g., Edinburgh-Hampden Park is £12.90, which is not discounted at all compared with an Edinburgh-Glasgow SDS.

London-Hampden Park is a maximum of £59.70 Advance, which is a nice saving on the Advance costs for London-Glasgow for tomorrow of around £120

Brentwood-London for instance is only £1.90, likewise Woldingham-London and other stations just outside Zone 6. Brighton-London is just £4.90 etc.
 

rail-britain

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I'm not sure what you mean by 'relevant'
There are three types of events and you need the relevant Olympics Ticket Type

For the first two you also get the One Day Travel Card, the final one does not

So for example if you have an Olympics Ticket for Cardiff Millenium Stadium
You can travel to/from Cardiff only on the day of the event
You can travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date, including the above
You will not receive a One Day Travel Card, and there will be no further discount available
When using the Games Rail Ticket, issued above, you must also carry the Olympics Ticket for the event above
 

soil

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There are three types of events and you need the relevant Olympics Ticket Type

For the first two you also get the One Day Travel Card, the final one does not

1. So for example if you have an Olympics Ticket for Cardiff Millenium Stadium
2. You can travel to/from Cardiff only on the day of the event
3. You can travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date, including the above
4. You will not receive a One Day Travel Card, and there will be no further discount available
5. When using the Games Rail Ticket, issued above, you must also carry the Olympics Ticket for the event above

I don't quite follow.

I understand that there are three types of venue. The first as I see it is all the venues in London, plus those close by, which are the rowing/canoeing (all varieties of canoeing), BMX, cycling during the Paralympics (Brands Hatch)

Then there are the football stadiums outside London, plus Weymouth.

The stadiums are:

Millennium Stadium (next to Cardiff Central)
Hampden Park (on a local Glasgow line)
Old Trafford (tram from Manchester)
St James Park (close to Newcastle Central)
Coventry (a long way from Coventry station, shuttles being provided)

At Weymouth it's just a long walk from the station.

So as I understand it you get:
(a) a London travelcard with any event ticket except sailing and the football outside London.
(b) a Manchester or Glasgow travelcard for football at Manchester or Glasgow respective
(c) no rail ticket at all for football at Coventry, Cardiff, Newcastle, or sailing at Weymouth.

That makes sense, but I might have some aspect of it wrong.

What I don't understand is why you say:

2. You can travel to/from Cardiff only on the day of the event
3. You can travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date, including the above

Surely being able to travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date contradicts travelling from Cardiff only on the day of the event?

Also I'm not clear what you mean by this:

5. When using the Games Rail Ticket, issued above, you must also carry the Olympics Ticket for the event above

Surely if you have a Games Rail Ticket you just need any Olympic or Paralympic Games Ticket for any venue on any date?
 

rail-britain

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That makes sense, but I might have some aspect of it wrong.
What I don't understand is why you say:
2. You can travel to/from Cardiff only on the day of the event
3. You can travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date, including the above

Surely being able to travel on any Games Rail Ticket on any date contradicts travelling from Cardiff only on the day of the event?
In the example above,
1
The ticket holder can travel to/from Cardiff on the day of the event
This allows the person to stay locally and travel to/from the event
2
The ticket holder can travel elsewhere before and after the event, which may be useful to travel to/from elsewhere in Britain to get to the accomodation, at the reduced rate
That is one of the benefits of the ticket

A similar arrangement exists for other venues, but the restriction is to/from London only

Also I'm not clear what you mean by this:
5. When using the Games Rail Ticket, issued above, you must also carry the Olympics Ticket for the event above

Surely if you have a Games Rail Ticket you just need any Olympic or Paralympic Games Ticket for any venue on any date?
You MUST carry both; the Olympics Event Ticket AND the Games Rail Ticket
That is outlined in the Games Rail Ticket conditions
 

soil

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A similar arrangement exists for other venues, but the restriction is to/from London only

What restriction?

Are you saying you can only travel to and from London on a Games Rail Ticket? Or that there is a restriction only on tickets to and from London?

You MUST carry both; the Olympics Event Ticket AND the Games Rail Ticket
That is outlined in the Games Rail Ticket conditions

Right, but any Olympic Event ticket for any date, past or future, can be shown to validate a Games Rail Ticket of any routeing, provided of course that the journey being travelled is valid for the route on the ticket including starting/finishing short.
 

rail-britain

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What restriction?

Are you saying you can only travel to and from London on a Games Rail Ticket? Or that there is a restriction only on tickets to and from London?
As above, there are three ticket types, specific to an event
The first allows travel to/from London only (for events in London)
The second allows travel to/from the nearest station to the event
The third allows travel to/from the co-Host City main station

This all depends on the Olympics Event Ticket you have been issued with

The Olympics Event Ticket also allows relevant travel on any other day, there are no restrictions, other than the destinations available

The most restrictive ticket is the One Day Travelcard, as this is valid only on the day of the event and until 4am the day after the event
All the others can purchased and used on any day

The arrangement has allowed very flexible travel, when required, as this will allow holders to travel across Britain in their own time, if necessary
As an example
They may be staying in Birmingham, attending the Opening Ceremony, one Football match in Cardiff, and then one Athletics event three days later
This arrangement allows them travel between all these places
 

Old Yard Dog

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Just checked the games ticket prices from Liverpool to Euston on Saturday week.

For trains travelling at sensible times, the games return fare is £119.40. This is an advance ticket for the outward journey and a semi-flexible ticket for the return. You're allowed 3 hours leeway if you miss your train, which isn't a lot of good if you miss the 2011 off Euston as the next train is at 2345.

However you can get a bog standard saver return for £74.20 which is considerably more flexible.

So which barmpot dreamt up games saver tickets and are they the biggest con going if you are travelling at the weekend??
 

soil

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Just checked the games ticket prices from Liverpool to Euston on Saturday week.

For trains travelling at sensible times, the games return fare is £119.40. This is an advance ticket for the outward journey and a semi-flexible ticket for the return. You're allowed 3 hours leeway if you miss your train, which isn't a lot of good if you miss the 2011 off Euston as the next train is at 2345.

However you can get a bog standard saver return for £74.20 which is considerably more flexible.

So which barmpot dreamt up games saver tickets and are they the biggest con going if you are travelling at the weekend??

Depends on your journey, doesn't it. For commuter stations just outside London they are very cheap, and the tickets are completely flexible SDS's. A peak return from Brentwood to London is £15.60; £9.80 for a super-off-peak, but two Games singles are only £1.90.

The longer distance tickets are Advances outside of SWT from what I've seen and obviously you need to compare Advances with a cheap-day return, something that the Games site doesn't do because it only sells singles.
 

Welshman

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Just checked the games ticket prices from Liverpool to Euston on Saturday week.

For trains travelling at sensible times, the games return fare is £119.40. This is an advance ticket for the outward journey and a semi-flexible ticket for the return. You're allowed 3 hours leeway if you miss your train, which isn't a lot of good if you miss the 2011 off Euston as the next train is at 2345.

However you can get a bog standard saver return for £74.20 which is considerably more flexible.

So which barmpot dreamt up games saver tickets and are they the biggest con going if you are travelling at the weekend??

This is the same situation you sometimes find with "advance" tickets bought near to the date of travel being more restrictive and expensive than walk-up "off-peak" fares bought on the day.
It's the usual case of "Buyer Beware"
 

Carefree

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On the face of it, there are some great offers to be had here.

I'm particularly interested in Bedford to either London Games or St Pancras - which clocks in at £7.30 for a single, or £4.80 with a Network Card discount. But the booking engine offers the Network Card discount on ALL trains (ie. even those in the morning peak). Can this be right?

Also, all tickets from Bedford to/through London declare that I should use my Games Travelcard for onward travel (so presumably the ticket itself is not valid on the Tube). Except one: Bedford to Balham for the Games (which appears to permit connections on one journey in the morning, and one on the evening only). Any ideas why?

I can see that, armed with my Olympic Tennis ticket for 1 Aug, this could make commuting much cheaper until 14 September. Have I understood that correctly?
 

soil

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It does seem to be so. I am tempted to buy a £1.90 single to London just to have a closer look at it.
 

rail-britain

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I can see that, armed with my Olympic Tennis ticket for 1 Aug, this could make commuting much cheaper until 14 September. Have I understood that correctly?
Yes, that is correct, so long as you have an Olympics Event Ticket then you can use this to purchase Olympics Rail Tickets (but you must carry both at the same time)
There are then two restrictions, as outlined above, depending on where the event is

It is not actually intended for commuting purposes, but there was no method for restricting this as the Games Rail Tickets are primarily to allow tourist travel at a reduced rate before and after the events, and other travel if required (for example to move between accomodation)
 

Carefree

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Thanks for replies. One important point on which I'd be grateful for clarification: the website lets me book tickets with a Network Railcard discount at all times of day (including in the morning peak). Will these tickets be valid if used before 10am?
 

rail-britain

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One important point on which I'd be grateful for clarification: the website lets me book tickets with a Network Railcard discount at all times of day (including in the morning peak). Will these tickets be valid if used before 10am?
I would suggest phoning National Rail and asking for a confirmation in writing (by eMail)
It looks to be correct, as the discounts show without any further time restrictions, but I can see the concern where a TOC may be of the opinion that the normal restrictions apply, resulting in a complete new ticket having to be purchased

Equally, if the time restriction did apply, then offering, including, and using the National Railcard discount would be pointless
It simply mentions that the Railcard must be held, valid, and carried along with both tickets
 

Medicy

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Just checked the games ticket prices from Liverpool to Euston on Saturday week.

For trains travelling at sensible times, the games return fare is £119.40. This is an advance ticket for the outward journey and a semi-flexible ticket for the return. You're allowed 3 hours leeway if you miss your train, which isn't a lot of good if you miss the 2011 off Euston as the next train is at 2345.

However you can get a bog standard saver return for £74.20 which is considerably more flexible.

So which barmpot dreamt up games saver tickets and are they the biggest con going if you are travelling at the weekend??

For the Games Advance tickets, you're allowed (on the return leg/leg travelling away from the event) to catch your booked train, any train within the next 3 hours, or the next available train where there isn't one within 3 hours - no guaranteed seat reservation however.
 

MKB

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One set of my own Olympics tickets was "lost" by Royal Mail and I've seen Thomas Cook telling lots of their customers that they have been unable to send out tickets as promised. In all these cases, tickets now have to be collected at the venue.

How then one is supposed to produce a Games spectator ticket to show on the train on the way to the venue I do not know.
 

barrykas

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One set of my own Olympics tickets was "lost" by Royal Mail and I've seen Thomas Cook telling lots of their customers that they have been unable to send out tickets as promised. In all these cases, tickets now have to be collected at the venue.

How then one is supposed to produce a Games spectator ticket to show on the train on the way to the venue I do not know.

People collecting tickets at the venue or a hotel SHOULD have received a letter/e-mail from the relevant company confirming same. That acts as supporting documentation for Games Travel tickets.

Cheers,

Barry
 

Carefree

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