National RMT Signaller's Strike

[yorkie]

staff insulting passengers, and calling us "spotters" is hardly going to get any passengers to support this strike action.

Strike action is a last resort. Everyone loses out. If Network Rail weren't so stubborn, it wouldn't be happening.

But why should we believe the RMT over NR?

Many people have a low opinion over the RMT (rightly or wrongly!) due to their previous actions. It's their word against NRs.

Most people can't just demand better pay & conditions or they'll strike. Most have to find a new job if they are unhappy, and if many people do this the company will be forced to increase pay & conditions. That's not to say I never agree with strike action - but only under extreme cases.

The deal looks good to me, and I am not sure how NR can justifiably spend loads of taxpayers money on better deals every time a union demands an even better deal.

 

[Sprog]

Nice excuse, I wonder if a driver on GNER knows exactly who all the dozens of signallers at the many signalling centres along the way is normally? I don't think so. It's a made up excuse designed to cause maximum delay to passengers

I can understand them being aprehensive if asked to pass a signal at danger (in which case they'd go slow anyway), but if following other aspects what can they moan about?

Imagine if everyone in the country could demand such pay rises and threaten to cause such disruption?

fool...........

 

[yorkie]

fool...........

We're all entitled to our opinions.

If you want to disagree, then that's fine I respect that, but if your argument is based on calling me a "fool" and no explanation given, then that's a pretty weak argument.

 

[TicketMan]

It's interesting to see how some of the railway staff view their customers.

Whats that supposed to mean? How are we supposed to view the type of person Keith (who you quoted before coming up with that comment) was on about? Wait till they spit then politely say thank you and offer them a tip?

Pratt.

Back on topic as regards the timing of the strikes, when would be a good day then? School hols last for six weeks - when would be convenient for a strike? Perhaps a day when no specials worth bashing/photting are running...

If a strike didn't cause disruption to the companies business (i.e. moving people about) then it wouldn't be very effective would it?

As for Yorkie, why shouldn't you believe what the RMT are saying? What is it about the NR propaganda that is so convincing? All the union are after is a one year deal. Pure and simple.

 

[theblackwatch]

Thats the thing though isnt it NO ONE likes strike action. I suppose by your reckoning then NO ONE should strike. Oh the poor commuters again do you mean the poor commuters who spit at you, swear at you,call you everything under the sun and think its ok to do so. When 99.9 times its not the member of staffs fault when things go wrong. Ive even known train (and i use the word losely) enthusiasts to do some of the above as well. I dont expect any support from the public purely and simply because the publics view can be like the railways in many ways 'UNRELIABLE' Actually i dont get upset either.

It's interesting to see how some of the railway staff view their customers. Your supposition that I think nobody should strike is wrong - my biggest problem is with the timing of this industrial action. I personally think it is in very bad taste of the unions to call a strike on a day (or two days in reality) which disrupts as many passengers as possible on one of the busiest Saturdays of the year (first day of school hols). Is this one of the aims of the strike? I can't think of any other explanation for why these dates were chosen, though I'd be happy to hear one.

 

[yorkie]

As for Yorkie, why shouldn't you believe what the RMT are saying? What is it about the NR propaganda that is so convincing? All the union are after is a one year deal. Pure and simple.

I just read the terms they are offering and it seems reasonable, if that is propaganda then please can you show us what the actual terms are.

By the way, it is interesting to see I am slated for not following NR "guidelines" (the non legally binding parts) to the letter, yet when I believe NR are offering a reasonable deal I am slated for siding with the same 'stubborn' organisation!

 

[313103]

It's interesting to see how some of the railway staff view their customers. Your supposition that I think nobody should strike is wrong - my biggest problem is with the timing of this industrial action. I personally think it is in very bad taste of the unions to call a strike on a day (or two days in reality) which disrupts as many passengers as possible on one of the busiest Saturdays of the year (first day of school hols). Is this one of the aims of the strike? I can't think of any other explanation for why these dates were chosen, though I'd be happy to hear one.

Actually Black Watch its not how i view them, its how they are. Spitting at staff is so common place on our company ALL Stations, all mobile staff and all Drivers and Guards are issued 'SPIT KITS' as well as ASBO forms to send direct to BTP. Had to use mine last week when a unhappy punter missed a 'LATE' running train. Hope he does it again because he will be banned from using the trains and stations.

Another example occured on Friday Night when the Victoria Line had to suspend its services at around 23.30hrs. One passenger took it upon himself to call the guy in the ticket office all the bastards under the sun, even though the guy sellling tickets didnt know what was going on. I was also affected by this disruption but you didnt see me rant and rave like no tomorrow. I accepted the problem and walked the 2 miles home.

They are not customers anyway they are passengers and before we start the old 'They pay your wages' just like to say they dont. The Government pay my wages, the Government also give National Express Group a large sum of money every year, the passengers pay National Express Group, who then pay the Shareholders. A few pennys then make it to the railway. That is in simple forms how it works.

With regard the timing. Timing is of course designed to cause maximum effect. I know like everybody else that schools close this week, so lots of people will be wanting to travel. It is designed this way to focus the attention of the company. Just like when all train fares rise its all about timing. Train fares rise in the quietest period of the year namely just after new year. This is so there is no big who ha about it. It wouldnt be done on a summer day when everyone is going to travel, purely and simply because no one would travel. So in that context yes it is the reason why these dates where chosen.

keithy

 

[Jim]

Many people have a low opinion over the RMT (rightly or wrongly!) due to their previous actions. It's their word against NRs.

The RMT are just doing what they are supposed to do, listen to views of there members, if the signallars aren't happy, then what do you suggest, saying to them "O, sorry, NR won't give you a pay rise, so tough" , it is there job to get what there members waant, tough if the public don't like it, if NR were to get there act togethor & give there staff what they wanted, then it would not be happening

Re: Comuters, I have to agree they are the ruddest most irritable lot of passengers, pushing, shoving, moaning, taking up extra seats with there laptops, taking tables to themselves instead of letting groups sit around them (something that I am sometimes slightly guilty of!) etc...

 

[theblackwatch]

Thanks for providing a reasoned response Keithy. It appears spitting is a far worse problem 'down south' than up here, its not something I've ever witnessed on my travel, and nor is it acceptable.

With regard to the dates, I'm sure that as much disruption would have been caused if they'd held them midweek over 2 days (eg Thurs 12.00-Fri 11.59) as commuters would have been disrupted twice. I think there would be more public support if they'd done that - people don't mind having 2 days a work screwed up, but when it comes to their holidays they feel rather aggrieved. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that subject though!

 

[Jim]

I just read the terms they are offering and it seems reasonable, if that is propaganda then please can you show us what the actual terms are.

Most stuff issued by companys that are dealing with strike action is propaganda though...

 

[Andrew]

There have been further updates on the NRES page. South West Trains is looking particularly awful. CT and fScotRail don't seem to come off too badly.

 

[Coxster]

SWT are indeed bad off. Nothing to most destinations! http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8521

 

[Andrew]

Yup. I'm guessing that means FGW's Gatwick services will either be packed (they could be the only trains at Guildford) or more likely will also not be running either - SWT aren't serving the Waterloo lines at Reading so it seems likely that FGW won't either?

Can't tell.

 

[ChrisM]

Well without going through the whole thread my opinion is they are just greedy and only threating a strike for more money.
Holding people to ramsom for greed,if they can't survive on their wages do what i had to do and get another job.

 

[313103]

Well without going through the whole thread my opinion is they are just greedy and only threating a strike for more money.
Holding people to ramsom for greed,if they can't survive on their wages do what i had to do and get another job.

Who is holding who to ransom?

So you left your previous job and started a new one because it didnt pay enough. Well isnt that being greedy as well? Leaving one company in the lurch and joining another one because you didnt like the wages, sounds like greed to me.


Keithy

 

[ChrisM]

Who is holding who to ransom?

So you left your previous job and started a new one because it didnt pay enough. Well isnt that being greedy as well? Leaving one company in the lurch and joining another one because you didnt like the wages, sounds like greed to me.


Keithy

Yeah greedy but i didn't get in a mood and stike along with others who probably don't want to stike but feel threatened to.

 

[yorkie]

Who is holding who to ransom?

So you left your previous job and started a new one because it didnt pay enough. Well isnt that being greedy as well? Leaving one company in the lurch and joining another one because you didnt like the wages, sounds like greed to me.


Keithy

If he served his notice then I don't see a problem.

As for "greed", maybe so - but it depends how you define greed. If anyone who ever gets a job that is better than their previous one is greedy then we're probably all greedy.

 

[313103]

Yeah greedy but i didn't get in a mood and stike along with others who probably don't want to stike but feel threatened to.

Well at least you are honest, ill give you that. I dont know any signalworkers in my area who feel threatened by any one and i am a union branch secretary who represents these groups of workers.

keithy

 

[TicketMan]

I just read the terms they are offering and it seems reasonable, if that is propaganda then please can you show us what the actual terms are.

By the way, it is interesting to see I am slated for not following NR "guidelines" (the non legally binding parts) to the letter, yet when I believe NR are offering a reasonable deal I am slated for siding with the same 'stubborn' organisation!

Of course it is propaganda, as is the statement put out by the RMT. As Mr Cairns would have us all believe, Dictionary.com is your friend

How do you know what is reasonable? Do you have any idea/experience of what the job involves? Playing Simsig every night doesn't count...

And as for bringing up the debate on NR guidelines, that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Interesting that when I take a subject off topic my posts get removed, whereas you blatantly do it...

I'm slating nobody for siding with NR - that is your choice. I am simply responding to certain comments in this section which suggests that signallers are the evilest b*stards ever to walk the planet!

 

[AlexS]

I wouldn't say the whole RMT is for the strike either - apparently out of 5000 or so members, approximately - I might have the figure slightly wrong - 2686 voted full stop, of which a majority voted yes.

So in fact, it is a significant minority, rather than a majority.

 

[Coxster]

SWT aren't serving the Waterloo lines at Reading so it seems likely that FGW won't either?

Not sure but there are a few Reading signallers on Railchat who might be able to shed light on the subject?

 

[313103]

I wouldn't say the whole RMT is for the strike either - apparently out of 5000 or so members, approximately - I might have the figure slightly wrong - 2686 voted full stop, of which a majority voted yes.

So in fact, it is a significant minority, rather than a majority.

There is an old saying AlexS, it goes thus:

'You can lead a Horse to water, but you cant make it drink'.

You can use the same example when people vote or dont vote in a ballot.

'You can send a ballot paper, but you cant make it vote'.

Me, you, the Management and the unions cant force someone to do something they chose not to do. You can play with figures and interpret the way you want to. If people dont or cant be bothered to does not mean the result would be any different. You could say they would have voted NO. I could say they would have voted YES. So your argument is a little bit shallow.

keithy

 

[theblackwatch]

Me, you, the Management and the unions cant force someone to do something they chose not to do. You can play with figures and interpret the way you want to. If people dont or cant be bothered to does not mean the result would be any different. You could say they would have voted NO. I could say they would have voted YES. So your argument is a little bit shallow.

keithy

I would say that those who didnt bother to vote probably didn't have a strong opinion either way - surely if they did, they would have made the effort to vote. Either that, or they are sheep who can't make their minds up and will just follow the majority of those who can!

 

[TicketMan]

All of you who are siding against the signallers would do well to remember that without trade unions we'd still be working in sweat shops for £2 a week...

As I've said before wait til you leave school/college and see what the real world is like. I'll give you a hint - it's sh*t.

 

[yorkie]

As I've said before wait til you leave school/college and see what the real world is like. I'll give you a hint - it's sh*t.

If a job is really that bad then why not look for another one?

 

[Chris]

Anyone know if there is any movement on this yet, as the press and websites are very quiet about it. Its now not even on the RMT website. What a well informed nation we are!

 

[Table 52]

I'm against anybody ever striking. But doubly so when it comes to public services such as the railways.

I'm an old fashioned believer in that if you don't like your job, find another one.
If enough signallers were unhappy and a lot left, while at the same time people looking for jobs didn't take signalling jobs because it looked bad, Network Rail would find themselves short. So what would they do? They'd have to put pay and conditions up so more people were attracted to the job. In this country, we're in a largely free market economy and that's how the system should work- people are attracted to good jobs and poor jobs have to make themselves more attractive.

In fact, if the demands are met, it's going to attract more people into signalling and mean that some of you current siggies could start losing your jobs for the tinyist of mistakesbecause there's plenty of people willing to take your place.

In colclusion, you siggies aren't happy. I am a third party- I do not employ you and I am not a siggy myself. So why am I having to suffer? If you don't like it, find a new job, that way me and millions of others can lead our normal lives for the day without getting involved in your squabble which we're nothing to do with.

This is my personal opinion and is not directed at any one individual. If you do not agree with it, that's fine, but please bear in mind I'm allowed to have opinions and so are you.

 

[yorkie]

All of you who are siding against the signallers would do well to remember that without trade unions we'd still be working in sweat shops for £2 a week...

Well, you are absolutely right that we do owe a lot to trade unions, I am very proud of what a relative of mine, Thomas Hepburn did, if it wasn't for people like him then the world would be a far worse place today.

But things are vastly different now (Mine owners agreed to reduce the working day to 12 hours for boys in 1831 - can anyone imagine this today?!).

I am not anti-union, but I do believe that some unions (e.g. RMT) are just a little too demanding/powerful. For example, many people cannot go on strike so easily because they're not in a job with 5,000 or so other people.

 

[TicketMan]

So because they can't / won't stand up for themselves no-one can?

 

[313103]

Why do people think that none of us lot who work on the railways like our job? Because we moan a lot (who doesnt moan about their job). I am sure those that work in this forum cant tell me all that all is rosey and wonderful in their garden either. If someone says they have never ever whinged about the job they do/ or have done in the past, then they are lying.

Also why do people assume that because we are sometimes not happy with our lot in life that we should change jobs? Would that really solve anything?
No not really because the inherent problems will still be there.
Christ if i changed jobs because i didnt like it i would of had twice as many jobs as i have done years on the railway (26 years).

Most of us stick with it in the hope that things will get better, some of us would even admit to like doing the job they do and with a great deal of pride to boot. Sometimes it isnt easy just to change jobs to improve your standing. Ive tried numerous times to go for other jobs but because my carreer history takes me back to the dark old days of British Rail, most companies wont take me on because you are perceived as a trouble maker in the making. Thats despite all my 26 years being spent in a safety critical grade, i have an excelent rapour with all the staff and with Management including Director level, my attendance record is second to none and i have a clean discipline record. Yet because i worked for BR ive been turned down for jobs. They one one thing i crave for at work is respect and this is very hard to find.


keithy