National Routeing Guide update

[Paul Kelly]

The electronic version of 700705 is written in a way that is very difficult to satisfy. The journey must go via all of Edinburgh, Haymarket, Edinburgh Park, South Gyle, Edinburgh Gateway and Dalmeny. This requires a doubleback from Edinburgh Park to Haymarket (permitted as both are members of Edinburgh Group), and is further complicated by the fact that very few trains call at both South Gyle and Edinburgh Gateway (and neither are timing points so won't be picked up by journey planners on trains that don't stop there).

In addition, not all the origin stations listed in the human readable version of 700705 feature in the electronic version: the latter refers only to Pegswood, Alnmouth., Morpeth, Acklington, Widdrington & Cramlington.

I managed to generate a suitable journey departing Pegswood at 07:52 to Inverkeithing, and using via points of Newcastle, Edinburgh Park and South Gyle, with a 5-hour layover at the latter to enable catching the 1649 to Inverkeithing, which calls at both remaining required via stations. But you can't bring that itinerary up on National Rail Enquiries as it doesn't allow specifying layovers (to the best of my knowledge), and seems to ignore via points if you ask it for something too complicated...

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published on Thursday.

New dataset RJRG0453 published 09 March 2017
Comparing RJRG0453 to RJRG0452

New Station to open on 21 May 2017
Cambridge North (CMB) has been added​

As you might expect, this is associated with Cambridge and Ely.

To create permitted routes via Manchester for journeys Lancaster to Middlesbrough

MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and LANCASTER GROUP (G64) - added sequence 'YT+TP+MX'​

There are now mapped routes which go via Huddersfield, Stalybridge and Manchester.

HELLIFIELD GROUP (G53) and Huyton (HUY) - added sequence 'XY+MX+NR'

Review of Map MX has resulted in the following changes
HELLIFIELD GROUP (G53) and Huyton (HUY) - added sequence 'XY+MX+NR'
HELLIFIELD GROUP (G53) and Huyton (HUY) - removed sequence 'MX+NR'​

There are no longer mapped routes:
via Clitheroe, Preston and Manchester; or
via Clitheroe, Wigan and Manchester.

1 map(s) changed
Map MX - MANCHESTER TO OXENHOLME changedremoved links between Blackburn (BBN); Hellifield (G53) and Lancaster (G64) Roputeing Points​

This removes Hellifield from the MX map along with the interchange stations which were next to it (namely Clapham and Clitheroe).

MX is used to start in a lot of routes from Oxenholme and Lancaster Group (and finish routes to those routeing points), but Hellifield-Huyton (shown above) is the only route which starts and ends with neither.

This change means that there are some journeys which no longer have mapped routes via Clitheroe, and some which are valid via Clitheroe on fewer routes than before. There are no maps which connect to MX at Clapham, Clitheroe or Hellifield Group, so I don't think any routes have been removed which do not go through Clitheroe.

Local easement added to permit journeys that otherwise fail the shortest route to a common routeing point rule
700707: Customers travelling from Stratford Upon Avon to Lapworth, Dorrridge, Widney Manor, Solihull, Olton and Acocks Green with tickets routed (00000) Any Permitted may travel via Birmingham Moor Street. This local easement applies in both directions​

Stratford-Solihull has tickets with routes "any permitted" and "not via Tyseley". This easement means that the "any permitted" tickets are now valid via Tyseley (which I believe only Stratford-Olton and -Acocks Green tickets were before), but only if you go into central Birmingham. Journeys from stations such as Stratford Parkway are not affected, of course.

Engineering works easements added
700706: Journeys between London and Ipswich are not valid via Harwich International. This negative circuitous route easement will prevent journeys to Ipswich being shown in journey planners using direct London to Harwich International rail replacement road services. It will operate in both directions.​

I don't know when these run. All I can find are some buses from Manningtree and Colchester, described here.

700708: During engineering works from 21 May 2017 to 07 September 2017, the line between Croy and Larbet will be closed on Sunday evenings to Thursday evenings. This map easement will permit travel between Glasgow Queen Street and Dundee on the following connecting services, Glasgow Queen Street departing at 22.30 to Polmont. Polmont departing 23.01 to Stirling. Stirling to Dundee departing 23.33.​

The 23:33 Stirling-Dundee train mentioned only runs Monday-Thursday, but the direct 21:45 bus may be the last chance to get to Dundee on a Sunday anyway. An easement is needed to allow the weekday journey as you are not normally allowed to travel to Dundee via both Falkirk and Perth.

 

[47513 Severn]

Re: Harwich to London buses.
During the regular GEML weekend line closures it is usual for through buses from Harwich International to Liverpool Street and vice versa to be laid on in place of the 'boat trains'.

For example, tomorrow (Sun 12/3) there is a non stop bus from Liverpool Street at 0755 and one from Harwich at 0720 to serve the morning sailings to/from Hoek van Holland.

The easement appears to be there to prevent Ipswich passengers being routed onto these services as they are really intended for rail-sail passengers.

 

[kieron]

The easement appears to be there to prevent Ipswich passengers being routed onto these services as they are really intended for rail-sail passengers.

Thanks. I was looking at the wrong dates.

The route via Harwich is slow and infrequent, which I'd expect to discourage journey planners (and passengers) quite a lot. None of tomorrow's buses connects with a Harwich-Ipswich train, so someone going that way would face as many changes as with the Witham-Newbury Park buses.

They could save a change by going via Cambridge (taking around as long as the Witham route), although it wouldn't be valid with an Ipswich-London ticket.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks. I was looking at the wrong dates.

The route via Harwich is slow and infrequent, which I'd expect to discourage journey planners (and passengers) quite a lot. None of tomorrow's buses connects with a Harwich-Ipswich train, so someone going that way would face as many changes as with the Witham-Newbury Park buses.

They could save a change by going via Cambridge (taking around as long as the Witham route), although it wouldn't be valid with an Ipswich-London ticket.

If the Harwich route is longer, does anyone know why the easement is needed. Surely National Rail Enquiries and other standard ticket sites wouldn't show it.

 

[Andrew1395]

Journey planners do not consider bus legs when calculating things like mileages, Routeing points/ map permissions. That's why on engineering works you get train legs that are not normally permitted as part of an overal origin - destination permitted route. The journey planners only apply Routeing guide rules to the train leg. So in this case it only tests Harwich International to Ipswich.

 

[infobleep]

Journey planners do not consider bus legs when calculating things like mileages, Routeing points/ map permissions. That's why on engineering works you get train legs that are not normally permitted as part of an overal origin - destination permitted route. The journey planners only apply Routeing guide rules to the train leg. So in this case it only tests Harwich International to Ipswich.

That might explain why today Clapham Junction to Redhill was showing as valid via Gatwick Airport, so long as you took a bus to Reigate and then a bus to Redhill. Going back up to Horley from Gatwick to catch the bus to Redhill wasn't permitted. I realise there were faster routes involving buses, just adding that example.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I think it's saying that because you can't reach any of those stations from the north without going through them first (unless you go the long way round) the double back via Newcastle is permitted.

I believe that is the intention otherwise why are there two route, any permitted and direct.

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published this afternoon.

New dataset RJRG0454 published 17 March 2017

Comparing RJRG0454 to RJRG0453

To provide alternative routes during routine engineering works the following new sequence will provide routes through Denmark Hill to London Group (G01)

LONDON GROUP (G01) and Hither Green (HGR) - added sequence 'FN'​

This had previously only had mapped routes via New Cross (and so from or via London Bridge).
It now has mapped routes via Denmark Hill (and so from or via Blackfriars or Victoria, or even Vauxhall if you time things right).

To overcome fares checking and fare route restrictions the following easements added
700709: Customers travelling from Stratford Upon Avon to Lapworth, Dorrridge, Widney Manor, Solihull, Olton and Acocks Green with tickets routed (00000) Any Permitted may travel via Birmingham Moor Street and Tysley. This Routeing Point easement will overide NFM64 fares checking and applies in both directions​

This has essentially the same text as 700707. It may have a different effect on journey planners.

700710: Journeys from Stroud (Gloucestershire) and Stonehouse priced on fare route (00804) VIA WORCESTER may travel via Cheltenam Spa. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

The only tickets which have "via Worcester" fares to or from Stroud and Stonehouse are the ones between Kidderminster and Stourbridge Town named in easement 700704 (which benefits journeys from Gloucester, Cheltenham and Cam & Dursley).

As with the older easement, I don't know if any difference remains between the "via worcester" and "any permitted" tickets on these flows, given that you aren't allowed to go via Swindon anyway.

 

[island]

Hmm. I would have expected Hither Green to Victoria to have been valid via the three mile rule historically.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I think Victoria was always valid, but Hither Green to Blackfriars wasn't, apart from on a through train - of which there are two in the morning peak. So this is a good, positive change.

 

[kieron]

Hmm. I would have expected Hither Green to Victoria to have been valid via the three mile rule historically.

I don't generally check for shortest routes, as (in this case) both Hither Green and London are associated with other stations, and it saves trying to work out the shortest route for tickets such as Bexley-Wembley Stadium.

- - - - -​

Some more changes were published yesterday.

New data set RJRG0455 published 22 March 2017

To provide permitted routes from Lancaster to Darlington and Northallerton via Manchester the following map sequences have been added
Darlington (DAR) and LANCASTER GROUP (G64) - added sequence 'YT+TP+MX'
LANCASTER GROUP (G64) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'MX+TP+YT'​

As happened when this sequence was added to Middlesbrough-Lancaster a couple of weeks ago, these both add extra mapped routes which go through Huddersfield, Stalybridge and Manchester.

 

[kieron]

Some more updates were released over the last couple of weeks. Sorry about the delay; I've had a couple of issues.

These changes were made a week last Wednesday:

New data set RJRG0456 published 05 April 2017

Comparing RJRG0456 to RJRG0455

To create permitted routes from London Kings Cross; Doncaster; Leeds; Settle; Carlisle on onward to Stirling

LONDON GROUP (G01) and Stirling. (STG) - added sequence 'ER+GY+SG'​

I'm still looking through the details of this, but there are definitely new mapped routes via Peterborough and Skipton.

To create permitted routes from Knaresbourough to Sheffield via Castleford the
following map sequences have been changed

LEEDS GROUP (G16) and Sheffield (SHF) - added sequence 'CE'
LEEDS GROUP (G16) and Sheffield (SHF) - removed sequence 'DO'
LEEDS GROUP (G16) and Sheffield (SHF) - removed sequence 'NB'
LEEDS GROUP (G16) and Sheffield (SHF) - removed sequence 'SY'
LEEDS GROUP (G16) and Sheffield (SHF) - removed sequence 'YL'​

This adds mapped routes via Pontefract group, including the Leeds-Woodlesford-Castleford route.

These extra routes are not included on any maps for Leeds-Meadowhall, however.

Following amendments to Maps MR GREATER MANCHESTER LOCAL ROUTES and MS ROUTES VIA MANCHESTER AND STOCKPORT the following changes have had to be made​

Crewe, Hunts Cross and Preston have been removed from MR, so some of the changes below were needed to avoid routes becoming unworkable. Some of the others don't involve MR or MS in any way.

Bridgend (BGN) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - added sequence 'MC+MS'
Bridgend (BGN) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - added sequence 'SO+MS'
Bridgend (BGN) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'CB+BM+MR'
Bridgend (BGN) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'MC+MR'
Bridgend (BGN) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'WB+BM+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - added sequence 'MC+MS'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - added sequence 'SO+MS'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'CB+BM+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'MC+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'WB+BM+MR'​

These no longer have mapped routes:
via Stoke-on-Trent and Warrington; or
via Warrington and Stalybridge.
They now have mapped routes:
via Chinley; and
via Atherstone.

Bridgend (BGN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'MC+MS'
Bridgend (BGN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'SO+MS'
Bridgend (BGN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'CB+BM+MR'
Bridgend (BGN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'MC+MR'
Bridgend (BGN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'WB+BM+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'MC+MS'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'SO+MS'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence
'CB+BM+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'MC+MR'
Cardiff Central (CDF) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence
'WB+BM+MR'​

These no longer have mapped routes:
via Hebden Bridge; or
via Warrington.
They now have mapped routes:
via Chinley; and
via Atherstone.

Bolton (BON) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'MR'
Cambridge (CBG) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'AM+MS'
Cambridge (CBG) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'AM+MR'
Cheshunt (CHN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'AM+MS'
Cheshunt (CHN) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'AM+MR'
Crewe (CRE) and MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) - added sequence 'GM'
Crewe (CRE) and MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) - removed sequence 'MR'
Crewe (CRE) and Salford Crescent (SLD) - added sequence 'GM'
Crewe (CRE) and Salford Crescent (SLD) - removed sequence 'MR'
Crewe (CRE) and Stalybridge (SYB) - added sequence 'GM'
Crewe (CRE) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'MR'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and Guide Bridge (GUI) - added sequence 'HW+GM'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and Guide Bridge (GUI) - removed sequence 'HW+MR'
WALSALL GROUP (G59) and HUNTS CROSS GROUP (G70) - added sequence 'BM+GM'
WALSALL GROUP (G59) and HUNTS CROSS GROUP (G70) - removed sequence 'BM+MR'
Guide Bridge (GUI) and Whitland (WTL) - added sequence 'GM+HW'
Guide Bridge (GUI) and Whitland (WTL) - removed sequence 'MR+HW'
Runcorn (RUN) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'ML+MR'​

No effect.

Incidentally, Runcorn-Stalybridge remains one of the six routes which still use ML, and the only one (based on the published rules) where it can't simply be replaced with ME.

Bolton (BON) and Chinley (CLY) - removed sequence 'MS'
Cheadle Hulme (CHU) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'MR+TP'
Cheadle Hulme (CHU) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'MR'
Chinley (CLY) and Guide Bridge (GUI) - added sequence 'DW'
Chinley (CLY) and Guide Bridge (GUI) - removed sequence 'MS'
Chinley (CLY) and MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) - removed sequence 'MS'
Chinley (CLY) and Stockport (SPT) - added sequence 'DW'
Chinley (CLY) and Stockport (SPT) - removed sequence 'MS'​

These no longer have mapped routes via Wilmslow.

Chinley (CLY) and Stalybridge (SYB) - added sequence 'DW+MR'
Chinley (CLY) and Stalybridge (SYB) - added sequence 'MS'
Chinley (CLY) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'GM'
Chinley (CLY) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'GM+MR'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Hebden Bridge.
It now has mapped routes via Marple which avoid Stockport.

Chinley (CLY) and WIGAN GROUP (G34) - added sequence 'AM+XW'
Chinley (CLY) and WIGAN GROUP (G34) - removed sequence 'PR+XW'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Preston.

Hazel Grove (HAZ) and Salford Crescent (SLD) - added sequence 'HV'
Hazel Grove (HAZ) and Salford Crescent (SLD) - removed sequence 'KM'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Bolton.
It now has mapped routes via Marple.

HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) and Whitland (WTL) - added sequence 'GM+HW'
HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) and Whitland (WTL) - removed sequence 'MR+HW'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'CB+BM+GM'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - added sequence 'HW+GM'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and HUDDERSFIELD GROUP (G40) - removed sequence 'HW+MR'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and Stalybridge (SYB) - added sequence 'HW+GM'
SWANSEA GROUP (G38) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'HW+MR'​

These now have mapped routes using direct trains from Wigan to Newton-le-Willows (which only run in that direction).

sequence(s) removed

Guide Bridge (GUI) and Hazel Grove (HAZ) - removed sequence 'MR+GM'​

This no longer has mapped routes via both Manchester and Marple.

Hazel Grove (HAZ) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'GM+MR'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Hebden Bridge.

MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) and HALIFAX GROUP (G39) - removed sequence 'MR'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Stalybridge.

Stalybridge (SYB) and Whitland (WTL) - removed sequence 'MR+HW'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Llandovery.
It now has mapped routes using direct trains from Wigan to Newton-le-Willows.

WIGAN GROUP (G34) and Stalybridge (SYB) - removed sequence 'XW+GM'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Preston or via Warrington.

Map(s) changed - part one of a review of maps around Greater Manchester

Map MR - GREATER MANCHESTER LOCAL ROUTES changed (3 links added SPT to HAZ; HAZ to G20 Manchester; ERL (g78) to WGN (G34) 4 removed links PRE to WGN (G340; CHU to WML (G69); WML (G69) to CRE; WAC (G31) to HNX (G70)​

Hazel Grove has been added to the map. It has a link to Stockport, but not to Manchester. Hazel Grove-Manchester doesn't actually appear on any routeing guide maps, although there is a (rather slow) route via New Mills such a route could take.

The other changes mentioned have taken place. They mean that Hunts Cross, Preston and Crewe have been removed from the map and Hazel Grove has been added. The line between Wilmslow and Cheadle Hulme has been excluded, and the (southbound only) link between Wigan and Newton-le-Willows has been added.

This affects a number of routes in various ways. For instance, Lichfield-Guide Bridge is no longer valid via Stockport, and Hereford-Stalybridge is valid using the route from Wigan to Newton-le-Willows. Two routes from London (to Guide Bridge and Stalybridge) use this map, but neither has changed.

Map MS - ROUTES VIA MANCHESTER AND STOCKPORT changed 1 link added GUI to SYB​

As used by Manchester Picadilly-Leeds and Stockport-Stalybridge trains. Again, this has affected a number of routes. For instance, Sheffield-Crewe now has mapped routes via Stalybridge (so long as you catch the train from Stockport), and Chinley-Loughborough has some routes via the Guide Bridge-Stalybridge line which go there from Manchester Picadilly, and others which do not.

Engineering easement
700711: During engineering works on Sundays 7, 14 and 21 May 2017 and the weekend of the 18 and 19 November 2017 Cross Country services between Cheltenham and Bristol will be diverted via Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham and Bath Spa. this map easement will create temporary permitted routes between Cheltenham Spa and Bristol Temple Meads that will apply in both directions​

This makes a change from the Newport diversions in easement 700692. As it's described as a temporary route, I don't think you'd have to catch a Cross Country train to make use of it.

Easement(s) changed from Doubleback to Local easement
700696: For passengers travelling from Pilning on Saturdays to or via Newport South Wales, this local easement will allow interchange at Filton Abbey Wood station to get a connecting service back towards Newport South Wales​

This is very odd, as it was only changed from a "local" easement to a "doubleback" one on 1st February. They didn't change the text then, either, hence its description as a "local easement".

In addition to the above, there have been some changes to station associateds:

Buxton (BUX) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Chapel-En-Le-Frith (CEF) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Disley (DSL) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Dove Holes (DVH) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Furness Vale (FNV) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Middlewood (MDL) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
New Mills Newtown (NMN) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).
Whaley Bridge (WBR) is no longer associated with Chinley (CLY), Guide Bridge (GUI) or Manchester Group (G20).​

That is to say, stations beyond Hazel Grove on the Buxton line are now only associated with Hazel Grove. This means there are more route options for some local journeys from these stations, and fewer choices for some longer distance ones.

These changes were made on Wednesday:

New dataset RJRG0457 published 12/04/17

Comparing RJRG0457 to RJRG0456

New Stations

Low Moor (LMR) has been added associatted with the Bradford Group (G03) and Halifax Group (G39) Routeing Points​

That is, with the stations either side of Low Moor.

Amendments to Map permissions from Runcorn Routeing Point to Greater Manchester

Bolton (BON) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'CL+XW+HV+CV'
Bolton (BON) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'CP+CV'
Bolton (BON) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'
Chinley (CLY) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'HV+CV'
Chinley (CLY) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'HV+NO+CV'
Chinley (CLY) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'​

These no longer have mapped routes via Crewe.
They now have mapped routes via Liverpool South Parkway instead.

Incidentally, you don't need to worry about CL+XW+HV+CV. It's just a fancy way of saying EH+ML.

Cheadle Hulme (CHU) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'OC+CV'
Cheadle Hulme (CHU) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'
Hazel Grove (HAZ) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'OC+CV'
Hazel Grove (HAZ) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'
Runcorn (RUN) and Stockport (SPT) - added sequence 'CV+OC'
Runcorn (RUN) and Stockport (SPT) - removed sequence 'MS'​

These no longer have mapped routes via Manchester.

Guide Bridge (GUI) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'NO+CV'
Guide Bridge (GUI) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'NO+OC+CV'
Guide Bridge (GUI) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Hazel Grove or Stalybridge.
It now has mapped routes via Eccles.

MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'MR+OC+CV'
MANCHESTER GROUP (G20) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'MS'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Hazel Grove.

Runcorn (RUN) and Stalybridge (SYB) - added sequence 'CV+NO+MB'​

This now has mapped routes via Liverpool South Parkway.

WIGAN GROUP (G34) and Runcorn (RUN) - added sequence 'CL+HV+CV'
WIGAN GROUP (G34) and Runcorn (RUN) - removed sequence 'NC+CV'​

These no longer have mapped routes via Crewe.
They now have mapped routes via Liverpool South Parkway instead.

Runcorn (RUN) and Salford Crescent (SLD) - removed sequence 'MS'​

This no longer has mapped routes via Crewe, but only via Liverpool South Parkway.

To provide a mapped link from Wigan Group (G34) to Liverpool Group (G18) representing the route via Kirby Merseyside (KIR)

Map XV - OXENHOLME TO LIVERPOOL changed (1 added link between (G34) and (G18) routeing points​

For clarity, Kirkby is not included on this or any map. This link is one which was previously only used on the CP map (which doesn't contain Kirkby, either, but does contain Ormskirk).

Thes map is used in hundreds of routes. It means that (for example) Crewe-Huyton now has mapped routes via Burscough and via Kirkdale. One of the (many) routes which use the map but aren't affected by this change is London-Huyton, which only uses XV for the line between Earlestown and Huyton.

To override fares checking which is impacting the service from Pilning to South Wales an easement has been created

Added 700712: To allow journeys on Saturdays to Newport (South Wales) from Pilning to travel via Filton Abbeywood, this routeing point easement will override fares checking in journey planners.​

The text has the same meaning as easement 700696. I can only assume that it affects the way journey planners behave.

 

[Merseysider]

So they have time to review several hundred pages of routeing data and introduce all these complicated changes, yet when I asked them a few days ago to allow Liverpool - Holyhead via Crewe the person who emailed back said they needed a request from a TOC, and came up with all sorts of other deflection tactics :roll:

 

[bb21]

Your request went to ATOC I assume?

These changes are published and implemented by the contractors who maintain the Routeing Guide I would guess, who I would guess take instructions from the TOCs directly.

I would say it is far more of concern that the industry are able to change the Routeing Guide willy-nilly, than the fact that they were unable to entertain individual requests as a trade association. It would appear that very little have been done to lobby the government, MPs, DfT despite all the complaints on this forum. There really needs to be more effort along those fronts if anyone really cares about these regular changes undermining passenger rights imo.

 

[kieron]

Some more updates were published on Wednesday, ones which include a fairly radical change to the LE map.

New data set RJRG0458 published 19 April 2017

Comparing RJRG0458 to RJRG0457

To add permiited routes via Leeds for journeys between the Guide Bridge and (G53) Hellifield Group Routeing points.

HELLIFIELD GROUP (G53) and Guide Bridge (GUI) - added sequence 'GY+YT+MB'​

There are now some mapped routes which go via Leeds and double back between Guide Bridge and Manchester Picadilly.

As this map combination is much less flexible than Hellifield-Manchester's WY+MN, this isn't valid via Manchester Victoria, and so going from Hellifield Group to Guide Bridge using these maps involves the above double back (there is one train a week which goes from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge which would avoid it, but nothing in the direction listed above).

There are some easements (300433, 700332 and 700333) which allow you to do this if travelling to some of the stations for which Guide Bridge would be a valid routeing point. The versions of these easements on journey planners appear to be more generous than the one published in the routeing guide.

As such, this does come somewhere near to providing permitted routes between the Hellifield Group and Guide Bridge routeing points via Leeds.

Review of Duplicate maps - Maps changed as part of a process to simplify and to reduce the number of maps in use. resulting in the removal and replacement of map sequences

MAP SU - ROUTES VIA SURBITON TO LONDON TERMINALS. Added a direct link between SUR (Surbiton) and WOK (Woking) routeing points that allows journey planners permit train services that are not reported travel to or through the members of the (G82) Weybridge Group routeing point.​

This change hasn't been included in the published maps. There are 13 maps in total which include the Surbiton-Woking section, so there may still be occasions where journey planners are unable to identify a valid route via Weybridge.

Map LE - LONDON TO PENZANCE VIA SALISBURY changed removed links via Peckham Rye,Twickenham, Feltham, Ash Vale and Taunton​

In addition to this, it removes the routes the map had had via Tulse Hill and the one to Weymouth. It leaves a link behind between Yeovil and Thornford for some reason. This means that the map goes from containing a few routes between London and Farnborough Main to only containing one. Meanwhile, the map has gained a link between Yeovil and Castle Cary.

This affects a number of routes. For example, Leicester-Salisbury no longer has mapped routes via Southampton or via Streatham. It now has mapped routes via Ascot, and via Newbury.

Map WE - LONDON TO THE WEST OF ENGLAND changed removed links Didcot to Reading, (G33) Weymouth Group to (CLC) Castle Cary (via Yeovil)​

It's lost the Didcot-Reading section and most of the Castle Cary-Weymouth one, but (as with LE) it retains Yeovil-Thornford.

The loss of Didcot has little or no effect, as every map which contains Didcot contains Didcot-Reading anyway. The loss of Weymouth means, for instance, that Exeter-Southampton no longer has mapped routes via Weymouth.

New sequences following map changes

Ash Vale (AHV) and Basingstoke (BSK) - added sequence 'SW'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Basingstoke (BSK) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Salisbury (SAL) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'SW+LE+EU'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - added sequence 'XS+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Liskeard (LSK) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Par (PAR) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'BL+WE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'WE'
Feltham (FEL) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'BU'
Feltham (FEL) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'TW+LE'
Feltham (FEL) and Salisbury (SAL) - removed sequence 'LE'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'WE+WO'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'WE'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Woking (WOK) - added sequence 'LE'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Woking (WOK) - added sequence 'SU'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Woking (WOK) - removed sequence 'SU+WU'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Woking (WOK) - removed sequence 'WV+WX'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Woking (WOK) - removed sequence 'WX'
READING GROUP (G24) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'WE+CE'
READING GROUP (G24) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and BANBURY GROUP (G58) - added sequence 'WO+WE+SM'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and BANBURY GROUP (G58) - removed sequence 'WE+SM'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and EALING BROADWAY GROUP (G77) - added sequence 'WO+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and EALING BROADWAY GROUP (G77) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and HAYES & HARLNGTN GP (G75) - added sequence 'WO+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and HAYES & HARLNGTN GP (G75) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Maidenhead (MAI) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Maidenhead (MAI) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Oxford (OXF) - added sequence 'CE+WE+SM'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Oxford (OXF) - removed sequence 'WE+SM'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Slough (SLO) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Slough (SLO) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Twyford (TWY) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Twyford (TWY) - removed sequence 'WE'​

No effect. In most cases, the change was a consequence of changes to the underlying maps. Although I do wonder about why XS+WE was chosen in some cases, and BL+WE in others (in each case, the first map is only used for Didcot-Reading).

Ash Vale (AHV) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Liskeard (LSK) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Par (PAR) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - removed sequence 'LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'SW+LE'
Ash Vale (AHV) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Streatham and Honiton;
via Barnes, London, back to Barnes and then Honiton;
via Guildford, London, Barnes and Honiton; or
via Virginia Water, then Chertsey, and then Honiton.

Ashford International. (AFK) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and EXETER GROUP (G12) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Liskeard (LSK) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Par (PAR) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'TN+LE+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'TN+LE'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Ashford International. (AFK) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'CW+LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Barnes and Honiton;
via Tooting and Honiton;
via North Dulwich and Honiton; or
via Croydon, Elephant & Castle and Honiton.

Barnes (BNS) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'EU'
Barnes (BNS) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'WX+LE'
Barnes (BNS) and Salisbury (SAL) - removed sequence 'LE'
Hounslow (HOU) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'EU'
Hounslow (HOU) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'TW+LE'
Hounslow (HOU) and Salisbury (SAL) - removed sequence 'LE'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'WX+BU+LE'
LONDON GROUP (G01) and Salisbury (SAL) - added sequence 'WX+PZ'
Motspur Park (MOT) and Salisbury (SAL) - removed sequence 'LE'​

These journeys now have mapped routes via Wokingham.

Barnes (BNS) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'WX+EU'
Barnes (BNS) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'WX+LE'
Clapham Junction (CLJ) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LE+EU'
Clapham Junction (CLJ) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes via London and Exeter.

Basingstoke (BSK) and Feltham (FEL) - added sequence 'EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Feltham (FEL) - added sequence 'LE+WX'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Feltham (FEL) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Streatham; or
via Chertsey and London.

Basingstoke (BSK) and LONDON GROUP (G01) - added sequence 'BU+WX'
Basingstoke (BSK) and LONDON GROUP (G01) - removed sequence 'XR+RG'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Streatham.

Basingstoke (BSK) and Nunhead (NHD) - added sequence 'EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Nunhead (NHD) - added sequence 'LE+PK+EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Nunhead (NHD) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Herne Hill;
via Streatham and South Bermondsey; or
via Clapham Junction and Streatham.
It now has mapped routes via Clapham Junction and Clapham High Street which avoid London.

Basingstoke (BSK) and Peckham Rye (PMR) - added sequence 'EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Peckham Rye (PMR) - added sequence 'LE+PK'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Peckham Rye (PMR) - removed sequence 'LE'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Peckham Rye (PMR) - removed sequence 'LE+SC'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Balham, Croydon, Peckham Rye, Herne Hill, Sutton or Sydenham.
It now has mapped routes via Clapham Junction and Clapham High Street which avoid London.

Basingstoke (BSK) and Richmond London (RMD) - added sequence 'EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Richmond London (RMD) - added sequence 'LE+TW'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Richmond London (RMD) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Streatham;
or via Feltham and Wimbledon (in either order).

Basingstoke (BSK) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'BB+WE'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LE+SS'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'XR+WE'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'XR+WR'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Southampton.
It now has mapped routes via Salisbury.

The shortest route between Basingstoke and Taunton goes via Salisbury, but there are some new extra with the mapped route.

Basingstoke (BSK) and Twickenham (TWI) - added sequence 'EU'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Twickenham (TWI) - added sequence 'LE+TW'
Basingstoke (BSK) and Twickenham (TWI) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Streatham; or
via Wimbledon and Hounslow.

Brockenhurst (BCU) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Brockenhurst (BCU) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'XR+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Basingstoke and Exeter; or
via Yeovil and Castle Cary.

BROMLEY SOUTH GROUP (G06) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+WC+WE'
BROMLEY SOUTH GROUP (G06) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
BROMLEY SOUTH GROUP (G06) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
CHATHAM GROUP (G07) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+WC+WE'
CHATHAM GROUP (G07) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
CHATHAM GROUP (G07) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes via Exeter.
They now have mapped routes:
via Wimbledon and Slough;
via Streatham, Tulse Hill and Reading;
via Weybridge and Westbury except via London;
via Streatham, then Tulse Hill, then Clapham Junction, then Wimbledon, then Westbury;
via Streatham, then Elephant & Castle, then London, then Staines, then Westbury; and
via Streatham, then Peckham Rye, then London, then Staines, then Westbury.

Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'BL+PZ'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'BL+PZ+SN'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'BL+WE+CE'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'BL+WE+SN'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'BL+WE+SN+PZ'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'RP'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'RB'
Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'WE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Winchester.
It now has mapped routes via Salisbury.

EASTBOURNE GROUP (G84) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LB+LE+EU'
EASTBOURNE GROUP (G84) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LB+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Chertsey and Exeter;
via London and Chertsey;
via London and Tooting;
via London and Dorchester; or
via Tooting and Exeter.

Eastleigh (ESL) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'WU+WD+WE'
Eastleigh (ESL) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'SN+PB'
Eastleigh (ESL) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'XR+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Salisbury and Bristol;
via Dorchester and Exeter; or
via Basingstoke and Salisbury.

EXETER GROUP (G12) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'EU'
EXETER GROUP (G12) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'WE+CE'
EXETER GROUP (G12) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'LE'
EXETER GROUP (G12) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'SS'
EXETER GROUP (G12) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'WE'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'EU'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - added sequence 'WE+CE'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'LE'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'SS'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Liskeard (LSK) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Liskeard (LSK) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Liskeard (LSK) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Newton Abbot (NTA) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Par (PAR) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Par (PAR) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Par (PAR) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and PENZANCE GROUP (G79) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'CE+WE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'EU'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'LE'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'SS'
WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'WE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes via Salisbury.

Gatwick Airport (GTW) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LB+LE+EU'
Gatwick Airport (GTW) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LB+LE'
REDHILL GROUP (G60) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LB+LE+EU'
REDHILL GROUP (G60) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LB+LE'
Taunton (TAU) and Three Bridges (TBD) - added sequence 'EU+LE+LB'
Taunton (TAU) and Three Bridges (TBD) - removed sequence 'LE+LB'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Chertsey and Exeter; or
via Tooting and Exeter.

Guildford (GLD) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'WX+LE+EU'
Guildford (GLD) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'PD+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Effingham Junction and Yeovil.

Havant (HAV) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'CW+CE+WE'
Havant (HAV) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'CW+EU'
Havant (HAV) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'RB+LE'
Havant (HAV) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'RB+WE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Mortimer.
It now has mapped routes via Dorchester which do not go through Basingstoke.

Haywards Heath (HHE) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LB+LE+EU'
Haywards Heath (HHE) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LB+LE'
Taunton (TAU) and Wivelsfield (WVF) - added sequence 'EU+LE+LB'
Taunton (TAU) and Wivelsfield (WVF) - removed sequence 'LE+LB'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Dorchester;
via Chertsey and Exeter; or
via Tooting and Exeter.

Hounslow (HOU) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'EU'
Hounslow (HOU) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'TW+LE+EU'
Hounslow (HOU) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'WX+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via London and Exeter; or
via Feltham and Raynes Park.

Leatherhead (LHD) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'DK+EU'
Leatherhead (LHD) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'HR+LE+EU'
Leatherhead (LHD) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'DK+LE'
Leatherhead (LHD) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'HR+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Ash Vale;
via Dochester;
via Feltham and Exeter;
via South Bermondsey and Exeter; or
via Tooting and Exeter.

ORPINGTON GROUP (G85) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
ORPINGTON GROUP (G85) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
ORPINGTON GROUP (G85) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
ORPINGTON GROUP (G85) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
OTFORD GROUP (G83) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
OTFORD GROUP (G83) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
OTFORD GROUP (G83) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
OTFORD GROUP (G83) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
Shortlands (SRT) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
Shortlands (SRT) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
Shortlands (SRT) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
Shortlands (SRT) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
Strood Kent (SOO) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
Strood Kent (SOO) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
Strood Kent (SOO) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
Strood Kent (SOO) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
Swanley (SAY) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
Swanley (SAY) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
Swanley (SAY) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
Swanley (SAY) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Barnes and Exeter;
via Tooting and Exeter;
via Tulse Hill and Exeter; or
via South Bermondsey and Exeter.

RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'DE+LE+EU'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FA+LE+EU'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'FC+LE+EU'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'RA+LE+EU'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'DE+LE'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
RAMSGATE GROUP (G68) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'RA+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Barnes and Exeter;
via Tooting and Exeter;
via Tulse Hill and Exeter;
via Chatham, South Bermondsey and Exeter; or
via Maidstone East, South Bermondsey and Exeter.

Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'EU'
Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'LE+SS'
Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'WO+WE'
Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'LE'
Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'SN+PB'
Salisbury (SAL) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'SS'​

This journey now has mapped routes via Yeovil Pen Mill.

SOUTHAMPTON GROUP (G26) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'XR+WD+WE'
SOUTHAMPTON GROUP (G26) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'XR+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Dorchester and Exeter.

Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - added sequence 'EU+LE+RA'
Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - added sequence 'EU+LE+TN'
Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - added sequence 'EU+LE+VH'
Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - removed sequence 'LE+RA'
Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - removed sequence 'LE+TN'
Taunton (TAU) and Tonbridge (TON) - removed sequence 'LE+VH'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Barnes and Exeter;
via Tooting and Exeter; or
via Tulse Hill and Exeter.

Taunton (TAU) and Woking (WOK) - added sequence 'EU'
Taunton (TAU) and Woking (WOK) - added sequence 'WE+SN+LE'
Taunton (TAU) and Woking (WOK) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey now has mapped routes via Castle Cary which avoid London.

Replaced Sequences

Basingstoke (BSK) and Motspur Park (MOT) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Barnes.

Dover Priory (DVP) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'DE+LE'
Dover Priory (DVP) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
Dover Priory (DVP) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'
Dover Priory (DVP) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'RA+LE'
Faversham (FAV) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'
Faversham (FAV) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'FC+LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes via Exeter.

Dover Priory (DVP) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'DE+LE'
Dover Priory (DVP) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'FA+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Barnes and Honiton;
via Tooting and Honiton;
via Nunhead, Tulse Hill and Honiton;
via Streatham, Tulse Hill and Honiton;
via Maidstone East, Grove Park, Clapham High Street and Honiton; or
via Clapham High Street and Honiton, except ones via Sevenoaks or London.

Effingham Junction (EFF) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'DK+LE'
Effingham Junction (EFF) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'EF+LE'
Effingham Junction (EFF) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'HR+LE'
Epsom (EPS) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'DK+LE'
Epsom (EPS) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'HR+LE'​

These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
via Dorchester; or
via Exeter.

EXETER GROUP (G12) and Richmond London (RMD) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Chertsey and Honiton; or
via Streatham and Honiton.

LONDON GROUP (G01) and WEYBRIDGE GROUP (G82) - removed sequence 'LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes via Clapham Junction and Streatham.

PORTSMOUTH GROUP (G23) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'RB+LE'​

This journey no longer has mapped routes:
via Dorchester;
or via Basingstoke and Salisbury.

3 map(s) changed
Map LE - LONDON TO PENZANCE VIA SALISBURY changed (1 added/ 23 removed links)
Map SU - ROUTES VIA SURBITON TO LONDON TERMINALS changed (1 added/ 0 removed links)
Map WE - LONDON TO THE WEST OF ENGLAND changed (0 added/ 4 removed links)​

As described above.

As there are 2108 routes which use LE or WE (not all of which use the altered sections, of course) and the permitted routes between London and Basingstoke, Salisbury and Weybridge have been changed, there are a lot of changes to mapped routes which I have not described above.

Dated engineering easements removed

700699: Over the Easter weekend 14 to 17 April, services from Leeds to Edinburgh are routed via Castleford. This positive map easement will create temporary map permissions that will apply in both directions

700700: During the Easter period 14 to 17 April 2017, Trans Pennine Express services from Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool South Parkway, Birchwood and Warrington Central to Edinburgh are diverted via the East Coast Mainline. Fares priced on fare route (00456) AP TPE & CONNECTIONS will be valid on services travelling via Berwick upon Tweed. This fare route easement will apply in both directions.

700702: Due to engineering works, trains from Manchester to West wales are diverted via Chester and Wrexham on the 11 and 12 March 2017. This map easement will create temporary map permissions to allow connecting services to be shown in journey planning systems. This easement will apply in both directions Easement changed add additional Route Code 00831 to electronic data VIA BATH - easement to expire 23 April 2017​

The dates have all passed for these.

700689: During engineering works between 08 and 23 April 2017 which will affect journeys via Bath Spa. For journeys to from Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchest West,Maiden Newton, Chentnoler, Yetminster, Thornford, Yeovil Pen Mill, Castle Cary, Bruton, Frome,Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Melksham, Chippenham to Bristol and South Wales priced on tickets routed on (00700) NOT VIA LONDON, (00829) VIA YEOVIL and (00618) VIA SALISBURY will be permitted to travel via Swindon. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

There only seem to be buses scheduled through Bath this weekend, so I suspect removing this was a mistake. The couple of routes I tried in a journey planner still seem to be allowed, so they may not have implemented this change yet.

 

[bakerstreet]

Given it used to be, as I understand it, at the fares changes that routeing guide might be tweaked, and given the comprehensive and extensive changes often reported here, there must be quite a large dept of people doing all this work. Does anybody know?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[furlong]

Given it used to be, as I understand it, at the fares changes that routeing guide might be tweaked,

That remains the case and the current contractual status of this monstrosity ATOC/RDG has turned the proper version of the Routeing Guide into today is now anybody's guess! Many of their changes appear unenforceable and websites and internal staff information systems might well put them in breach of franchise commitments and consumer regulations.

But IMHO the fault lies squarely with the glacial DfT failing to adapt and leading to the industry now blatantly ignoring rules that are no longer fit-for-purpose and which should have been revised years ago.

 

[tspaul26]

That remains the case and the current contractual status of this monstrosity ATOC/RDG has turned the proper version of the Routeing Guide into today is now anybody's guess! Many of their changes appear unenforceable and websites and internal staff information systems might well put them in breach of franchise commitments and consumer regulations.

But IMHO the fault lies squarely with the glacial DfT failing to adapt and leading to the industry now blatantly ignoring rules that are no longer fit-for-purpose and which should have been revised years ago.

I do wonder if it might just be best to bite the bullet and prepare the 3,271,684 maps required to link every station to every single other station and have done with it. It will be very time-consuming to implement, but once it's done every possible journey would have its own map to refer to and print off if desired.

This way, the only time that changes are required to the maps is when a new line or station is opened. Temporary diversionary routes can still be done through easements so there would be no loss of of flexibility in that regard either.

 

[Muzer]

Wow, some of those latest changes seem a little extreme to me.

 

[FenMan]

Wow, some of those latest changes seem a little extreme to me.

In what way?

Initially, I thought the removal of the via Winchester option on this route was extreme:-

Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33)

Then I remembered that VIA BASINGSTOKE tickets are available for this journey.

 

[embers25]

Wow, some of those latest changes seem a little extreme to me.

There are VERY deliberate reasons for almost all the changes this time, hence the very large number

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are VERY deliberate reasons for almost all the changes this time, hence the very large number

A lot of them look to me to be splitting gSWr (possibly) routes from gWr routes, which is ironic as both are FirstGroup.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if it might just be best to bite the bullet and prepare the 3,271,684 maps required to link every station to every single other station and have done with it. It will be very time-consuming to implement, but once it's done every possible journey would have its own map to refer to and print off if desired.

I'd actually do the opposite and make it recursive, so for example London-Manchester would be valid via Birmingham and the Trent Valley, which is made up of permitted London-Birmingham, Birmingham-Manchester etc and so on down. Much more logical and much easier to maintain.

There are borderline similar things I'd do with fares, too.

 

[tspaul26]

I'd actually do the opposite and make it recursive, so for example London-Manchester would be valid via Birmingham and the Trent Valley, which is made up of permitted London-Birmingham, Birmingham-Manchester etc and so on down. Much more logical and much easier to maintain.

There are borderline similar things I'd do with fares, too.

Thus removing the current permitted route via Sheffield into St Pancras.

If we just prepare the maps for every possible journey between each pair of stations, no maintenance would be required at all because there would be no need to tinker (unlike the current 'routeing point' system).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thus removing the current permitted route via Sheffield into St Pancras.

If I recall correctly, that is only Permitted because of a set of routed fares cheaper than the Any Permitted, and is not a mapped route. Unless it's been added, which is entirely possible.

But anyway, it in no way detracts my point, as you could simply add "Chesterfield" to the list, then recursively London-Manchester would be valid additionally via any recursively permitted route from London-Chesterfield and Chesterfield-Manchester.

Much easier to maintain, unlike your proposal which would be a nightmare of inconsistency just like the fares system that works much more like what you propose.

And yes, maintenance would be required if they want to change the Permitted Routes at any point! The Routeing Point system requires no more or less maintenance.

 

[Merseysider]

If we just prepare the maps for every possible journey between each pair of stations, no maintenance would be required at all because there would be no need to tinker (unlike the current 'routeing point' system).

Surely that's something a computer could do, if programmed competently? Can't be that difficult to derive physical maps from permitted RG map combinations.

 

[tspaul26]

If I recall correctly, that is only Permitted because of a set of routed fares cheaper than the Any Permitted, and is not a mapped route. Unless it's been added, which is entirely possible.

Map PR - Midland Mainline Routes to Manchester and Preston via Sheffield.

But anyway, it in no way detracts my point, as you could simply add "Chesterfield" to the list, then recursively London-Manchester would be valid additionally via any recursively permitted route from London-Chesterfield and Chesterfield-Manchester.

Much easier to maintain, unlike your proposal which would be a nightmare of inconsistency just like the fares system that works much more like what you propose.

A recursive approach is still complicated and difficult to understand.

This is why my view is that the whole thing should be prepared on a comprehensive basis, in one go, with widespread consultation and - crucially - double-checked before it goes live. Consistent, simple for staff and passengers and no more arguments about 'loopholes'. We could get rid of the 'negative easements' in one fell swoop.

Instead of trying to work out 'Routeing Point' routes or recursive routes each time, we would simply select the origin and destination stations shown on the ticket and BAM! Here is a map showing you the permitted routes, subject to any limitations specified on the ticket (e.g. Manchester to London route: Chesterfield: here is a handy map showing the permitted routes from Manchester to London; you may only use the ones that pass through Chesterfield).

I believe that the recursive approach does have merit, but when defining and generating the permitted routes at the outset: not on an ongoing basis.

And yes, maintenance would be required if they want to change the Permitted Routes at any point! The Routeing Point system requires no more or less maintenance.

You seem to have missed the main aim of my proposal: there should be no need to change Permitted Routes at all! Certainly not the ridiculous tinkering with map sequences that ATOC/RDG have been faffing around with for the past few years.

There would simply be a map for each possible pair of origin and destination stations (e.g. Map ABDxSTG showing permitted routes between Aberdeen and Stirling).

The only time that this would need to be changed is if an entirely new route opens, which is not common (certainly not for through routes - 'branch' reopenings like the Borders railway seem to be more usual).

For temporary diversionary routes during engineering work, easements would be sufficient because it is not a permanent change to the permitted routes themselves.

Allow me to put it rather bluntly: the Routeing Guide is a mess and it always has been. However, unlike in the 1990s when everything had to be compressed into a single volume and was implemented in a rush, we now have the flexibility of time and vastly enhanced computing power to create, test and host a much more comprehensive set of routes.

 

[tspaul26]

Surely that's something a computer could do, if programmed competently? Can't be that difficult to derive physical maps from permitted RG map combinations.

Potentially, yes.

Perhaps I should make clear that my suggestion is intended to do away with map combinations altogether, thus removing ATOC/RDG's justification for constant tinkering. Every possible journey between each pair of stations would be shown on a single map.

To put the matter another way, we would get rid of steps 3 to 6 (incl.) in Section A of the Routeing Guide completely, together with scrapping most of Section E.

 

[Muzer]

In what way?

Initially, I thought the removal of the via Winchester option on this route was extreme:-

Didcot Parkway (DID) and WEYMOUTH GROUP (G33)

Then I remembered that VIA BASINGSTOKE tickets are available for this journey.

Removal of Feltham from LE would mean that this is no longer valid on a lot of routes during engineering works when mainline services are diverted via the Windsor lines. At least, not according to journey planners.