Near miss with track workers at Sundon, Bedfordshire, 12 Dec. 2018

[Deafdoggie]

I am a total layman on this, but all access points I have seen are under lock and key. If the person is given a key to the correct access point with their paperwork, and it works only the correct access point, then if it doesn't work they are at the wrong access point, they hand the key back on completion of the work. Surely that would prevent accessing the railway at the wrong point?

 

[jayah]

I am a total layman on this, but all access points I have seen are under lock and key. If the person is given a key to the correct access point with their paperwork, and it works only the correct access point, then if it doesn't work they are at the wrong access point, they hand the key back on completion of the work. Surely that would prevent accessing the railway at the wrong point?

I suspect the same key opens all of them. Managing access with keys rather than competence sounds like a logistical nightmare.

 

[tsr]

I suspect the same key opens all of them. Managing access with keys rather than competence sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Spot on (well - almost - there is a handful of different keys in use!).

 

[Supercoss]

Now the ink is dry on the report consider the additional overview:
The two staff were told to drive to Sundon ‘ green’ footbridge, cross the line go through a pedestrian access gate turn left (head south on up slow) a line under engineers T3 possession with isolation and apply earths.
On the night they drove to green footbridge found a separate gate did not cross the line,turned left and walked to apply earths .
Unfortunately for them, theywere walking on a still energised open line, back to traffic heading North.
If theyhadn’thad a near miss and they had attempted to apply earths, they would have risked electrocution applying earths to Live overhead Line as they also failed to take live line tester with them
The GS!-R emergency call from the train “ I think I’ve just hit two platelayers ( track staff)at Sundom should have been released to accompany video clip.

 

[infobleep]

Signage certainly isn't installed at all access points. I'd hazard a guess that less than half in my area has signage.

I can see that it's no small task to install signage, one access point can have two or three different names depending on who you talk to or which document reference and different documents can give slightly differing lists of access points. That doesn't mean it should be excusable not to recognise this as a serious risk with obvious sets of solutions. When completed it would also have the side effect of making it clear which access points are official.

It might appear a waste of time when considering that regular maintenance staff will know their patch like the back of their hand, but contractors will not. I strongly dislike the fact that it's acceptable to COSS in an unfamiliar area and believe that at the very minimum a daytime site visit with someone who has local knowlege should be mandatory before COSSing in an area. In the day you stand a chance of orientating yourself using the position of the sun, landmarks, structures, or mileposts, but at night when all you can see is a small beam from a head torch or vehicle headlights it's much, much harder.

The industry also needs to move away from relying on postcodes. In built up areas they can be reasonably accurate, but in rural areas they can be considerably off. For example, I was recently provided with a postcode that directed me to the other side of a river and railway line to the location I was intended to get to. What3words is one initiative which seems to be gaining some traction and might be something to seriously consider going forward.

My dream wishlist would be:

1. Site access signage at all access points
2. An overhaul of the Hazard Directory, with regular updates
3. An app containing all access points (ideally tied to the Hazard Directory and made available as a set of satnav POI points)
4. A move away from using postcodes
5. A ruling that all COSSes should have some form of local knowledge before COSSing an area
6. The inclusion of detailed track diagrams and/or satellite images in SSOW packs as standard (in addition to the existing Sectional Appendix extracts)

Surely they don't use postcodes? These are created purely to help Royal Mail deliver post.

I know Royal Mail sell it on for other purposes but in their postal address file they only record addresses that contain letterboxes and most of the railway and countryside around won't have a letterbox.

I'm work in mapping and addressing of properties, which is how I know it not to be suitable.

What Network Rail need is a national rail gazetteer of all railway lines and infrastructure around them. May be they already have this. If they do, it would be widely used.

If there are multiple names for locations then one is recorded as the official name and the others are added as alternatives.

I once went to a job fair where network rail were present. I asked if they had a need for a GIS person and there response was no they get their mapping from Ordnance Survey. I never followed up what they said to see if it was correct. In hindsight it probably wasn't.

Anyway a good National Railway Gazetteer would be very beneficial, if such a thing doesn't exist.

 

[infobleep]

That's rather harsh. I know there are a number of rail professionals who post on these forums, but I suspect the majority are enthusiasts who may not feel they can add much to this discussion.


I'm very surprised that anyone would use postcodes to define access points or work locations either in rural or urban areas. Surely grid references would be far more accurate and reliable, and have the advantage of being readily used on paper maps, as well as being displayed by a handheld GPS to an accuracy within a few metres. If you are in the wrong place they can also show you which direction you need to move in, which postcodes won't.

Funnily enough I didn't have much to contribute until someone mentiones postcodes. Then my eyes lit up. More really needs to be done to educate people on the pitfalls of using postcodes. Royal Mail wouldn't be doing that as it would harm their profits.

Postcodes are great for the delivery of post and that is what Royal Mail design them for. They most definitely should not be used to locate sections of railway line. That's ludacris.

Network rail, being a public company, probably have free access to postcodes but that's no excuse in my opinion.

 

[LAX54]

Have not read the report yet, but were they NR staff or Contractors ? we sometimes have real issues with non NR staff, recall a few years ago, we had a request for a line block, when they were asked for their location, the Signaller got the reply 'Behind Staples' ! We also had (again sometime ago now and investigated) staff with a valid block, which was on and off for sometime during the day (Sunday) , in the end they needed one more, told to wait for a train to pass, which it did, no call, 15 mins went by, in the end Signaller called them, no train had passed, alarm bells rang, asked to verify location, which was correct, however after a long pause, said, sorry we might have got that a bit wrong, ended up they were 15 to 20 miles away, and beyond another junction, AND had the wrong line too ! needless to say, removed from job, screened, investigation, disciplined, and more think they had all the wring documents etc, just used the wrong one for that job!

 

[td97]

Blimey it was a close call

 

[winks]

Scary stuff. Just goes to show how important local knowledge is and the slightest mistake could have been deadly !

 

[Highlandspring]

What Network Rail need is a national rail gazetteer of all railway lines and infrastructure around them. May be they already have this. If they do, it would be widely used.
Anyway a good National Railway Gazetteer would be very beneficial, if such a thing doesn't exist.

GeoRINM Viewer and the National Hazard Directory fit the bill. Non NR staff (e.g. contractors) don’t have access to GeoRINM at the moment but will soon.

 

[infobleep]

GeoRINM Viewer and the National Hazard Directory fit the bill. Non NR staff (e.g. contractors) don’t have access to GeoRINM at the moment but will soon.

I'm surprised they don't have access already if it exists. It makes peefe t sense to me.