NET Extension

[edwin_m]

Surely that becomes an advantage - especially at the eastern side of the city (e.g. the Radcliffe-on-Trent, Bingham corridor) - the A52 is heavily congested at peak times and the obvious place for a P&R site would be at Saxondale, but you're then stuck in the same traffic as everyone else. With housing also planned to go all the way from Newton to Bingham there is the potential for that corridor to be massively overloaded in the coming years.

That is, if anything, a reason to provide a better heavy rail service - extension of the Robin Hood Line to Bingham is suggested from time to time.

The only significant benefit of tram-train service from these places would be to get into the centre of Nottingham, but as pointed out the walk from the station is quite short (and would be made psychologically a lot shorter if the Broadmarsh area was made more pedestrian-friendly). To get a tram-train from the east onto the tram line at Nottingham would involve demolition of brand new buildings and major construction of new viaducts roughly mirroring the old Great Northern link. And as I mentioned somewhere further back, existing tram-train designs couldn't cope with either the platforms designed for a 2.5m vehicle width, or the 18m radius curve they would encounter just beyond Lace Market stop.

Also, one other point I forget, is that right next to EMP is the Radcliffe-on-Soar power station, which if government policy actually follows through will be wound down in the next decade or so, and that land would make an ideal location for an edge of city business / industrial park, and as we've seen up at Newton may well become a site for new housing.

This is quite possible and would be a good thing in my view - if Rushcliffe council had been a bit more aware they could probably have got the HS2 station located here. However the Parkway provides fast and reasonably frequent heavy rail links to all the major towns in the region so the demand for a tram would be very small indeed.

 

[spinba11]

Anyone know how far it is from Queens Walk to Clifton South or got a link to the distince chart (I think there is one for the extension)?

 

[tramdan]

Anyone know how far it is from Queens Walk to Clifton South or got a link to the distince chart (I think there is one for the extension)?

I have attached one for your convenience.

 

[neonison]

http://www.thetram.net/tram-names.aspx

When did NET trams get names? I had not noticed these before the extensions opened.

 

[tramdan]

http://www.thetram.net/tram-names.aspx

When did NET trams get names? I had not noticed these before the extensions opened.

The trams have carried names since shortly after the opening of the system in March 2004.

 

[edwin_m]

The Citadises (Citades?) have been receiving names over the last few weeks. Seems to be one every week or two, probably so they can get separate publicity for each one.

 

[tramdan]

Indeed, I personally refer to them as Citadai. :P

 

[spinba11]

This has been bugging me for ages now, what is the door numbering scheme on both old and new trams, there are 12 passenger doors but I've seen a door numbered 14 and that was on a double door so the doors into the cabs must come into it somewhere.

 

[tramdan]

This has been bugging me for ages now, what is the door numbering scheme on both old and new trams, there are 12 passenger doors but I've seen a door numbered 14 and that was on a double door so the doors into the cabs must come into it somewhere.

I'd never looked that closely at it to be honest, I'll have a look at it tomorrow when I'm at work.

 

[spinba11]

^^Thanks.

 

[LTJ87]

The Greater Nottingham Light Rapid Transport Committee has prepared a short report for Nottingham City Council on the performance of the Nottingham tram since the launch of Lines 2 and 3:

http://committee.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/documents/s34580/Operations Report.pdf

The new line to Beeston and Toton Lane seems to be performing better than the extension to Clifton, though no absolute numbers are given for either line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An extension of the NET Tram to Gedling is being pushed for by Gedling Borough Council:

http://m.nottinghampost.com/stop-Gedling/story-28556070-detail/story.html

 

[edwin_m]

An extension of the NET Tram to Gedling is being pushed for by Gedling Borough Council:

http://m.nottinghampost.com/stop-Gedling/story-28556070-detail/story.html

Shame they demolished the GNR curve from Weekday Cross...

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Another debacle today. Fire forcing no trams beyond Bramcote Lane to Toton Lane. Admittedly not the tram companies fault, but the way it is handled is. The elderly etc left to walk for 15 minutes to the tram terminus and the tram company will NOT categorically pay for private taxis. They then provide a 8 seater minibus to shuttle along the section. Which obviously does not provide enough capacity. Sounds like a joke - are they purposely trying to create ill will?
Presumably they, unlike other rail operators, are not obliged to get customers to their final destination, though they will refund tickets if you complain apparently.

 

[howittpie]

The crisis management seems very poor when things go wrong. Yesterday in some ways was worse as it was half price Sunday so lots of people using the tram who do not normally use it.
Information is dreadful when things go wrong trams still showing on boards going to Toton Lane on tram destinations and announcements saying the same only when the tram gets to Bramcote Lane are passengers told the trams not going any further. No clue given to passengers how to get to Toton Lane. From reading facebook posts they had 2 staff at Toton Lane and none where really needed at Bramcote Lane.
I admit the problem wasn't Net's fault but there handling of it for passengers was dreadful again.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I've travelled on the Toton Lane and Clifton South lines today for the first time.

I was surprised to not see a single ticket inspector despite the £50 fine threatened on all leaflets, is that normal?
£4 was good value for a dayrider, as is the 50p extra for a combined bus, tram, & train ticket.
Some references to Station Street can still be seen at Lace Market, why hasn't this been changed?
I think the auto annoucements are odd, one tram said "Nottingham Train Station", the others said "Nottingham Station for Nottingham Railway Station", why not just use the railway station one on it's own?
The internal display couldn't fit Southchurch Drive North on when it was the next stop, why is the 'North' bit there when no other Southchurch Drive stop exists?
The location of Willford Village is a bad choice, and yet on the Beeston side some residential streets are unserved which was disapointing.
The lines are good, I throught the Clifton line was a better route in how it serves the estates it passes, the Toton Lane line looked like it was designed mainly for speed to the park and ride site. I was pleased that Beeston isn't too different to before with Birds Cafe the same. Shame about the charity shops though.

 

[turkish1977]

I hate to tell you GrimsbyPacer that outside of rush hours the bus from Beeston is so much quicker than the tram. And whilst Beeston itself is doing ok, Chilwell High Road that the tram goes down which is full of independent shops is really struggling as despite the smart pavements the parking restrictions just keep people away unfortunately it would seem

 

[kevjs]

The internal display couldn't fit Southchurch Drive North on when it was the next stop, why is the 'North' bit there when no other Southchurch Drive stop exists?

What else do you call it without being ambiguous? Farnbourgh Road is the obvious alternative, but that meets South Church Drive again at Holy Trinity. - the North makes it obvious that it's the northern most stop of four on South Church Drive.

As for the ticket inspectors - from what I've seen (passing by the tram stops on the paths) they go in swarms - at Wilford Village they put barriers up along the middle of the platform and have about a dozen inspectors getting ready to board the tram in one go. Only seen them a few times though - then again in 15 years of being in Nottingham (10 of those being a daily bus user) I've only had my bus tickets inspected twice!

Oh, and next Friday, Saturday, and Sunday the track at the bend in the Lace Market is being replaced - it's looking rather work with the outside rail on the south bound line looking very worn (about 1cm below the tarmac now and awful lot of gouges, the inside half of the same rail looking the same as the straight bits).

 

[howittpie]

Beeston is really struggling there was a piece on Midlands Today around christmas stating that trade for retailers had not picked up as promised. As a daily user of the Toton Lane route there are regular ticket checks. Was noticeable last weekend that this included plain clothed ones. It very rare that my ticket isn't checked once during the day.

 

[spinba11]

It's only the old trams the name doesn't fit on the DMIs.

 

[Robertj21a]

I hate to tell you GrimsbyPacer that outside of rush hours the bus from Beeston is so much quicker than the tram.

Can you explain that please.

If you take a logical boarding point in the centre of Nottingham where the tram and the 3 main bus routes to Beeston all depart then the tram is actually quicker.
Old Market Square tram stop to Beeston is 21 mins on the tram. The bus stop for the Indigo is in Friar Lane (by the tram) and that takes 24 mins off peak. The NCT 36 and competing Yourbus Y36 also leave nearby, in Angel Row, and both take 23 mins off peak.

How is the bus 'much quicker than the tram' ?

 

[edwin_m]

Can you explain that please.

If you take a logical boarding point in the centre of Nottingham where the tram and the 3 main bus routes to Beeston all depart then the tram is actually quicker.
Old Market Square tram stop to Beeston is 21 mins on the tram. The bus stop for the Indigo is in Friar Lane (by the tram) and that takes 24 mins off peak. The NCT 36 and competing Yourbus Y36 also leave nearby, in Angel Row, and both take 23 mins off peak.

How is the bus 'much quicker than the tram' ?

Are those bus times extended by the Canning Circus roadworks?

I have to say that the tram to Beeston feels quite slow, at least until it gets to about Highfields. The Clifton route gets onto a segregated and mostly straight alignment immediately after it diverges from the Beeston route, and is then pretty fast until reaching Clifton itself.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are those bus times extended by the Canning Circus roadworks?

I have to say that the tram to Beeston feels quite slow, at least until it gets to about Highfields. The Clifton route gets onto a segregated and mostly straight alignment immediately after it diverges from the Beeston route, and is then pretty fast until reaching Clifton itself.

They're the times shown by all 3 operators and, as far as I know, make no allowance off-peak for Canning Circus roadworks. In my experience the 36/Y36 often get delayed after the QMC, along Derby Road, and it's easy to forget that the tram doesn't have to stop so frequently.

 

[nffcwaitsy]

Silverdale through to the university of nottingham would be my suggestion.for phase four. You could eventually upgrade from silverdale to gamston and then maybe join it with the station through carlton etc. This idea for phase four would give Nottingham a more flexible network for track works and closures plus upgrade silverdale station and also be a major scheme like cross rail in London.

 

[kevjs]

Probably using tram trains for much of their running....

Line 1B : Nottingham to Pheonix Park via Line 1, Hempsted Vale, Nuthall, Kimberley, Giltbrook (Ikea Retail Park), Eastwood West, Langley Mill

Line 4 : Bring the Robin Hood Line into the NET Fold aiming for an every 15 minute frequency (at least as far as Hucknall), with additional stops around Alfreton Road, Wooloton Road, Derby Road, Abbey Bridge, and Castle Bridge Road.

Line 5 : Grantham, Bottersford, Aslockton, (every 30/60), Bingham (East, Central, West), Saxondale (P&R), Radcliffe-on-Trent, Netherfield, Colwick Road, Trent Lane, Meadow Lane, Nottingham aiming for an every 15 minute frequency

Line 45 : Every seven minutes service from Nottingham for Midland Mainline and NET Line 1, 2 and 3, Beeston, Attenbourgh, Long Eaton East, Toton for HS2, and then every 15 to Stapleford and Sandiacre, Ilkeston, Langley Mill (for NET Line 1B).

 

[HSTEd]

It would be nice to have a functional high intensity service from Grantham to Nottingham, and given the low line speeds and superior acceleration of a tram I doubt it would be much slower, if at all.

 

[bunnahabhain]

It would be nice to have a functional high intensity service from Grantham to Nottingham, and given the low line speeds and superior acceleration of a tram I doubt it would be much slower, if at all.

75mph maximum and an option to increase to 90mph once the Pway is upgraded? Compared to approx 44mph max speed for the tram?

 

[edwin_m]

Bingham to Grantham (exclusive) has no more than villages, which could probably justify an hourly stopping service but no more than that. Bingham is reasonably sizeable with good bus services into Nottingham, and if it was in Germany or Switzerland it would have a train every 20min or so with feeder buses from surrounding villages. Extending the Robin Hood line has been suggested and would probably be a better bet than trying to link it to the tram.

There would also be major engineering issues with tram-train round Nottingham. The infrastructure in Nottingham limits vehicle width to about 2.5m, whereas Manchester and Sheffield have 2.65m widths. A Nottingham tram-train would need a non-standard bodyshell with greater reach on the moveable door steps to bridge the gap.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The Robin Hood Line works best as a self contained service really, the five diagrams are mostly captive to the route and because of the single line sections it's best to keep them captive else delays can quickly build. Using Bestwood Park and Newstead loops isn't ideal either as it slows both services down and one will usually be at a stand as they're both very short. Having been on quite a few delayed RHL services running them through Nottingham would be far from ideal. Personally I've always felt a dogbox shuttling back and forth every 120mins between Grantham and Nottingham in addition to the Skegness service would be ideal, calling all but Elton and Orston. Bottesford in particular could do with an hourly service and Bingham might do quite well with a half hourly, although it's not that well used as is because the bus service is so good.

 

[HSTEd]

75mph maximum and an option to increase to 90mph once the Pway is upgraded? Compared to approx 44mph max speed for the tram?

Tram stock exists capable of higher speed than 44mph, and given how anemic a 158 is I doubt it spends that long above 55-60mph, especially with the long times they tend to spend sitting outside Nottingham waiting for a platform. Despite the expensive rebuild that has achieved almost nothing.
It is only 25 miles or so from Nottingham to Grantham, so the travel time advantage is not that large considering the travel time of 32 minutes minimum.
With the scalded cat acceleration of a tram matching the current journey time is close to feasible. After all the 32 minute journey time is only marginally over 44mph average speed as it is.

Then you have the time advantage from going to four trams an hour every hour.
Especially as only one of the current 'two' trains to Grantham benefits from any further speed improvements on the route.

 

[bunnahabhain]

But there just isn't the demand for it, and the route is better served by the railway. Of those current two trains per hour, both of them continue on to Norwich and Skegness, so you'd end up with six trains/trams an hour, unless you're going to suggest we run a tram to Skegness instead?