Network Rail appoints new boss Mark Carne

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PR1Berske

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Hmm, maybe if you go back and read the whole of my post, specifically with the reference to the corporate world and to dealing with governments then maybe you would actually understand what I was going on about.


But I fear I may be wasting my time trying to point this out or trying to explain it further.


I fear that many of the people who whinge about MPs in the DfT not knowing their driver cabs from their signal boxes are acting very cordially towards a man who has never worked in the industry before being awarded a handsome salary.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Profile of Mark Carne from Business Week: http://investing.businessweek.com/r...85966&previousTitle=ROYAL DUTCH SHELL PLC-ADR
Mark Carne has been Chairman of Dubai and Northern Emirates Region at Royal Dutch Shell plc since September 2010. Mr. Carne served as an Executive Vice President of BG Group plc since May 1, 2005 and also its Managing Director of Europe & Central Asia since March 2006. Mr. Carne served as Managing Director - North West Europe of BG Group Plc since May 1, 2005. He joined BG from Shell, where he served as Managing Director of Brunei Shell Petroleum and Country Chairman for Shell companies in Brunei until 2005. He was employed with Shell until 2005. He also worked in upstream assets and held a number of commercial and general management roles in the UK and the Netherlands. His first Middle East assignment was as engineering manager with Petroleum Development Oman from 1992 to 1996. Prior to that, Mr. Carne served as the Asset Director, responsible for Shell's U.K. North Sea oil production. His international experience includes various general management roles in the U.K., Holland and Oman covering operations, engineering, commercial and business development. Mr. Carne holds a B.Sc in Engineering Science from the University of Exeter, UK and a Chartered Diploma in accounting and finance from the Cambridge College of Arts and Technology

He's an oil man.
I hope he does better than the last oil executive who ran our rail infrastructure - Bob Horton at Railtrack.
 

W230

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You really think he'll be paying much in the way of tax? :roll: <D
Yep. Don't think he can avoid that part of it - he's not taking share options and running it as his own business is he?! :lol:

I find the Daily Mail argument comical - it seems they believe anyone who has a high salary should instantly take a pay cut because they earn more than the rest of the country and should do it for free. One day it's doctors, then teachers then police officers etc etc but not the humble Daily Mail journalist. :lol:

I don't buy the argument that someone who had (for example) worked on the platforms at Derby would be better suited for the role because they had more railway experience, sorry.
 

Prairie_5542

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But it is you who is making assumptions as you have done on this thread already without him even getting his first cuppa on the job.

I'm not criticising him. I'm in just disbelief the salary for that job!
 

tbtc

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I don't buy the argument that someone who had (for example) worked on the platforms at Derby would be better suited for the role because they had more railway experience, sorry.

Doing this job is going to involve sitting in a lot of meetings sorting out multi million pound budgets and dealing with the diplomacy of competing interests.

Network Rail have given the job to someone who appears to have a lot of experience of meetings sorting out multi million pound budgets and dealing with the diplomacy of competing interests.

The fact that he wouldn't know the difference between a double slip and a double amber doesn't worry me in the slightest - thats what those on the ground are there to do.
 

Prairie_5542

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Doing this job is going to involve sitting in a lot of meetings sorting out multi million pound budgets and dealing with the diplomacy of competing interests.

Network Rail have given the job to someone who appears to have a lot of experience of meetings sorting out multi million pound budgets and dealing with the diplomacy of competing interests.

The fact that he wouldn't know the difference between a double slip and a double amber doesn't worry me in the slightest - thats what those on the ground are there to do.


But don't you think if he's in charge of the railway infrastructure that he should have at least some knowledge of what his meetings are about ie- tracks and signals etc?? And what a double slip and double amber mean?
He may receive briefings etc??
 

Muzer

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Presumably, that's what advisors who actually know things about railways are for, but aren't good at the negotiation/diplomacy skills. I'm not sure exactly how high-level his dealings would be, but I expect anything he doesn't know that's relevant to what he's doing would be told to him in a given situation.
 

Tomnick

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He'd be doing well if he knew what a double amber was...it's not something that I've come across!
 

TheKnightWho

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Yep. Don't think he can avoid that part of it - he's not taking share options and running it as his own business is he?! :lol:

I find the Daily Mail argument comical - it seems they believe anyone who has a high salary should instantly take a pay cut because they earn more than the rest of the country and should do it for free. One day it's doctors, then teachers then police officers etc etc but not the humble Daily Mail journalist. :lol:

I don't buy the argument that someone who had (for example) worked on the platforms at Derby would be better suited for the role because they had more railway experience, sorry.

In general, I find the idea that we should pay people on some nebulous idea of what is fair quite comical. We live in a social democratic society that, at its heart, is capitalist. Therefore people are paid simply what other people are prepared to pay them. Fair doesn't, and shouldn't, come into it once we're past the threshold of an acceptable standard of living.

They're offering him what they have because that's what they feel will get them their best deal. What all of you who are wanting to see his pay slashed by 50% or more are forgetting is that if they did that he'd likely kindly tell them to **** off. It's as simple as that. And no, there probably isn't someone else just as good prepared to do it for that, because funnily enough if there was they'd have asked them to do it instead!

(I also love that argument from the Mail, Express et al. whenever I see it. Remarkably communist in its thinking, don't you think? Of course, the readers' heads would probably explode if you told them that.)
 
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ralphchadkirk

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[/B]

But don't you think if he's in charge of the railway infrastructure that he should have at least some knowledge of what his meetings are about ie- tracks and signals etc?? And what a double slip and double amber mean?
He may receive briefings etc??

Do you really think the CEO needs to know that? Seriously? Do you think that the manager of my local petrol station knows what a bentonite infused drilling mud is?
 
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MattRobinson

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Do you really think the CEO needs to know that? Seriously? Do you think that the manager of my local petrol station knows what a bentonite infused drilling mud is?

Hmm, a slightly different position. Perhaps better to use the example of the head of BP/Shell knowing that?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2
 

tbtc

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[/B]

But don't you think if he's in charge of the railway infrastructure that he should have at least some knowledge of what his meetings are about ie- tracks and signals etc?? And what a double slip and double amber mean?
He may receive briefings etc??

Yes, he's going to be in charge of infrastructure, but much of that job will be agreeing spending commitments with the Government/ TOCs and then delivering on those commitments within a budget.

It's going to be the busiest few years of most people's lives - with all of the remodelling/ electrification/ new lines - there's quite a wishlist for CP5 that needs to be delivered.

They're not just going to leave him at the trackside with a hi-vis vest and a spanner and hope he can get on with it.
 

Bald Rick

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[/B]

But don't you think if he's in charge of the railway infrastructure that he should have at least some knowledge of what his meetings are about ie- tracks and signals etc?? And what a double slip and double amber mean?
He may receive briefings etc??

He'll be briefed within a few weeks. As we all know, a double amber is an underbridge that when struck by a road vehicle is dispensated to be reopened immediately with a speed restriction.

Anyway, pretty sure he's taking a pay cut (or at least a package cut) to go to NR. No share options, no opportunity to offshore the earnings (as is generally done in Dubai), having your remuneration plastered all over the news with 'supportive' comments from the unions, and no weekends away from the phone as his predecessor found out pretty quickly.

It would be interesting to see how many TOC MDs or owning group CEOs were willing to be considered for the position (bigger job, more grief, pay cut).
 

yorksrob

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He's an oil man.
I hope he does better than the last oil executive who ran our rail infrastructure - Bob Horton at Railtrack.

Probably unfair to lay all the blame for the Railtrack affair on Bob Horton.

It was, afterall, the result of a massive failure of Government policy which involved failure to listen to railway professionals, failure to understand the basic economics of running the railway, failure to realise that the the long term trend for the railway was one of growth, not decline etc.
 

jon0844

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You've seen the circles in the HS2 thread. Did you expect anything different?
 

tbtc

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yorksrob

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This thread seems to be more a comment on the wider issue of excessive pay that is pervading western society at the moment. However difficult it must be to run Network Rail, it seems difficult to see how managing any company can justify however many times the average salary such a role generally commands.

Those who say that this has nothing to do with issues such as fare dodging amongst the "lower orders" are living in a dream world. When people on average incomes see the upper echelons exploiting the system, it is inevitable that more of them will also seek to exploit, or at the very least, get one over on that system.
 
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W230

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(I also love that argument from the Mail, Express et al. whenever I see it. Remarkably communist in its thinking, don't you think? Of course, the readers' heads would probably explode if you told them that.)
A very good point.
 

ainsworth74

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When people on average incomes see the upper echelons exploiting the system, it is inevitable that more of them will also seek to exploit, or at the very least, get one over on that system.

Though fare evasion has always been an issue. Is there anything to suggest it's gotten worse since the upper end of the salary market has exploded?
 

JGR

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How many passengers are likely to know (or care) what the salaries of Network Rail's board are, and for that matter, why would this make them more or less likely to fare evade? People will break rules where the reward for doing so sufficiently outweighs the risk.

As for the salary in question, it's just supply and demand. Executives with the required skill sets and experience don't grow on trees, and if Network Rail were to make an offer under the market rate, he'd just go somewhere else instead.
 

yorksrob

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Though fare evasion has always been an issue. Is there anything to suggest it's gotten worse since the upper end of the salary market has exploded?

Actual levels of successful crime are dependant on many factors, including how you police the system and how you deter criminal activity, therefore it would be difficult to prove a direct causal link.

That said, it seems logical to me that excessive pay will engender a sense of entitlement as well as a sense of grievance that will prompt more people to try and play the system.
 

Flamingo

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Actual levels of successful crime are dependant on many factors, including how you police the system and how you deter criminal activity, therefore it would be difficult to prove a direct causal link.

That said, it seems logical to me that excessive pay will engender a sense of entitlement as well as a sense of grievance that will prompt more people to try and play the system.

I'd say the people who would try to play the system would do so anyway, they just look for any reason to justify their action, especially when caught.
 

yorksrob

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I'd say the people who would try to play the system would do so anyway, they just look for any reason to justify their action, especially when caught.

I suspect that some will already be of that mindset. That said, in many societies which suffer high level corruption, there seems anecdotally to be a tendancy for corruption to spread throughout society at all levels. I wouldn‘t mind betting that a lot of people in Western societies already consider excessive pay to be a form of corruption.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Probably unfair to lay all the blame for the Railtrack affair on Bob Horton.

It was, afterall, the result of a massive failure of Government policy which involved failure to listen to railway professionals, failure to understand the basic economics of running the railway, failure to realise that the the long term trend for the railway was one of growth, not decline etc.

I don't know if he was directly responsible, but on his watch the West Coast Route Modernisation was severely bungled (radio block, PUG2 and all that).
Not sure government policy had much to do with that.
 

yorksrob

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Unfortunately the failure of Railtrack was inevitable from the start, regardless of who ran it. There was no way that a public service requiring subsidy one day could realistically make a profit and pay out dividends at all levels the next, which is why NR and its ability to borrow were necessary.

Another executive (who also learnt his trade in oil as it turns out) Bob Reid (II) warned the Government of the day that it's proposed structure wasn't fit for purpose, and he was proved right.
 

tbtc

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This thread seems to be more a comment on the wider issue of excessive pay that is pervading western society at the moment. However difficult it must be to run Network Rail, it seems difficult to see how managing any company can justify however many times the average salary such a role generally commands.

Those who say that this has nothing to do with issues such as fare dodging amongst the "lower orders" are living in a dream world. When people on average incomes see the upper echelons exploiting the system, it is inevitable that more of them will also seek to exploit, or at the very least, get one over on that system.

People evade fares because they are dishonest or feel that it is a victimless crime.

They don't check the Network Rail accounts to determine the salary of the chief executive beforehand (unless you are claiming that there would be no fare dodging if the chief executive only earned £20,000?).

Using this salary as justification for fare dodging, or blaming it for the problems that we have with revenue collection doesn't really add up

I stick by what I said above.

Was there no fare evasion/ avoidance under BR, back when the head of BR was paid a more regular "civil service" salary?

People aren't dodging fares to make a political point, they are doing so because they are happy to cheat - you might as well claim that motorists speed because they are unhappy with the salary of the boss of the Highways Agency.
 

yorksrob

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I stick by what I said above.

Was there no fare evasion/ avoidance under BR, back when the head of BR was paid a more regular "civil service" salary?

People aren't dodging fares to make a political point, they are doing so because they are happy to cheat - you might as well claim that motorists speed because they are unhappy with the salary of the boss of the Highways Agency.

And I will reiterate the point that I made originally.

And I stick by what I said above.

I agree that there was fare avoidance under BR when wage inequality within the UK was a lot less than it is now - My point is one about British society as a whole (although your agenda against BR is noted).

When the upper echelons are seen to be working the system, the rest will try as well. It may offend your sense of propriety tbtc, but that is how it happens. Fare dodgers are ready to cheat, Chief executives are happy to cheat and squirrel everything away abroad.
 
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