Network Rail - Apprenticeship Salary

[Edward Cairns]

Quick question about the salary offered.

Is there any chance of negotiating to get the pay higher than they advertise as I would love to apply for the apprenticeship but wouldn't be viable currently due to it being half of what I earn right now

 

[Jay_123]

No, its fixed unfortunately.

 

[BloominMan]

Yes it's fixed AFAIK.

 

[Edward Cairns]

That's really unfortunate, although I would love to do it to actually have a career I'd be happy with, it would be impossible for me to last years on a salary that low, thanks for the help anyhow

 

[M84]

I'm taking a cut of +50% to do this apprenticeship knowing that in 3 years I could earn more than an office job is ever going to pay me. It's going to be a tight 3 years though considering I still have children and a mortgage to pay for.

 

[thecrofter]

That's a brave move considering there's no guarantee of a permanent role afterwards but if it hopefully pans out then I'm sure you won't regret it. The Railway is a family you won't want to leave believe me.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

I did the apprenticeship and was in a similar position to yourself M84. I completed last summer and though honestly it was hell I strongly reccimend doing it. Bear in mind you may be entitled to working tax credits or child tax credits in your first and possibly second year. In my first year they paid us 8k for the year, im very glad they have changed this since! Its still bad but if you CAN afford it then definitely do it.

As for no guarranteed post/it being a gamble its not. Unlike other apprenticeships you ARE guaranteed a post at the end unless of course you dont do your work or otherwise get fired (so same as any other job). It costs NR in excess of 60k to train an apprentice for 3 years and your recruitment is based on analysis of the age and projected retirement of current staff. They need you to stay. We have an aging workforce and are recruiting more to compensate this. You may be temporarily 'displaced'. I am currently 'displaced'. This only means that I am carrying on in my depot where I did my apprenticeship and being placed where they need me most. Currently another tech is recovering from an injury and im working in their team to make up numbers. Prior to that i was an additional person in another team. I still get paid my technicians rate which Im sure you know is a very good wage. Im keeping my eye out for internal vacancies but im already aware of several coming up where staff are retiring. They worked it out just right.

 

[M84]

I did the apprenticeship and was in a similar position to yourself M84. I completed last summer and though honestly it was hell I strongly reccimend doing it. Bear in mind you may be entitled to working tax credits or child tax credits in your first and possibly second year. In my first year they paid us 8k for the year, im very glad they have changed this since! Its still bad but if you CAN afford it then definitely do it.

As for no guarranteed post/it being a gamble its not. Unlike other apprenticeships you ARE guaranteed a post at the end unless of course you dont do your work or otherwise get fired (so same as any other job). It costs NR in excess of 60k to train an apprentice for 3 years and your recruitment is based on analysis of the age and projected retirement of current staff. They need you to stay. We have an aging workforce and are recruiting more to compensate this. You may be temporarily 'displaced'. I am currently 'displaced'. This only means that I am carrying on in my depot where I did my apprenticeship and being placed where they need me most. Currently another tech is recovering from an injury and im working in their team to make up numbers. Prior to that i was an additional person in another team. I still get paid my technicians rate which Im sure you know is a very good wage. Im keeping my eye out for internal vacancies but im already aware of several coming up where staff are retiring. They worked it out just right.

Sounds like you made a good choice there! Did you overtime as an apprentice at all? Three years seems so far off before getting good pay but at least you're there now!

 

[C J Snarzell]

I considered an apprenticeship last year but regardless of age - a first year apprenticeship is only entitled to earn £3.90 per hour in their first year of training.

However, this will go up slightly in April 2020 as the National Minimum Wage increases from £8.21 to £8.71 per hour and the over 25 rule will be scrapped so younger people can earn the same. Apprenticeship salaries will also increase very slightly but will remain at a first year benchmark for a low rate.

This increase is all down to the cost of living constantly on the rise. The government are actually pitching at pushing minimum wages to over £10 per hour by 2023 so again apprenticeship salaries could also benefit in the future.

Its a shame because a lot of people (like myself) are put off retraining in certain careers because we wouldn't be able to survive on some apprenticeship salaries.

CJ

 

[alxndr]

Did you overtime as an apprentice at all?

Overtime is very rare as an apprentice unfortunately.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

Hi guys to clarify on a few issues.
1) the NR apprentice wage is higher than the minimum apprentice wage. Mine worked out to roughly 8 grand in the first year, 12 in the second and 14 in the third. The first year is now 10 (last i checked) which is much higher than most. Its also useful to know you get a 1k bonus and your first year often ends up actually being 11 months. After that its much more liveable. The first 6 months are residential with all meals catered for, gym onsite etc. You may be put in a hotel or you may be in one of the rooms at the training centre. Both are to a good standard. So its possible to live very cheaply as long as you arent in a situation where you have to send your wages home. (I was like this, still doable but trickier). Its not quite as bad as it sounds, if you live at home or have support from a partner currently id strongly reccomend taking the paycut. If you have dependents then it could be different, weigh it up and see what's best for you. Tax credits made my first year liveable and I dont regret it.

2) Overtime is possible but dependent on area, stage of the apprenticeship etc. In the first 6 months you will have none guarranteed. It is not possible to work overtime at the training centre. After this it is dependent on your depot. Get stuck in, be willing to do the ugly jobs and naturally they are going to want you around more anyway. In certain disciplines apprentices are less useful and overtime is rare. However apprentices are contracted to 35 hours a week and many depots are on 40 hours which sometimes means you have overtime built into your roster because you will follow that of another team. You also get a premium for nights, weekends and bank holidays. Since we work shifts this does boost the pay considerably. In my first year i earnt the predicted but in the second and third years where i was more useful and where i was working with a 40hr team i earnt well over predicted. It really varies on your area. In summary yiu cant rely on it, and dont expect to get any for a while but in years 2 and 3 you will likely get something. Make sure your manager knows you are happy to do the hours. Overtime is also really useful when you can get it because we honestly need all the time in track we can to learn. The apprenticeship goes by swiftly.

 

[M84]

Thanks for taking the time to write that reply! Sounds like a great scheme to get a new career started.

I'm doing OH lines so can't see myself being of much use for a while.

I didn't realise people would have to stay off site for accommodation. Hopefully it isn't too far to the canteen and gym.

Luckily universal credit is going to help bridge the pay gap so maybe the original poster can look into things like this. I know it's tough to start something new, especially with bills etc but I'll be 36 when the scheme starts in March which is old I know but I expect to be working until 70 at least so need a decent long term career.

 

[The Planner]

If you are put in a hotel then you are using its facilities, the training centre (Westwood) is a long way from any hotels and the centre of Coventry.

 

[Edward Cairns]

Thanks for the all replies, it's been a very interesting read , the major issue for me is the fact I have a 3 month and live in Scotland so currently going all the way down to england where the training centre is located is far from ideal from a money standpoint and I'll wont be able to see my son.
Especially since I'm the only one working currently as my partner is taking care of our child while I'm away at work so the paycut of over half of what I earn right now wouldn't be possible due to rent, etc.

Again thanks for the all the help, hopefully one day it might be financially viable for me to do it

 

[ctuck81]

Network Rail do employ people off the street as well, look for operative positions. You will start on a good wage and they send you on the courses and train you to do the job. The apprentice scheme is great if you can afford to do it but for people with kids and a mortgage it would be very hard. I work in the overhead line department been there for 5 years and before that I was a London Bus Driver, couldnt even change a plug now I work on 25k overheads

 

[ZombieLaydee]

I am the only income in my household and have three stepchildren so I can understand the issue. I really really missed my kids. They kept asking their dad if was coming home and several friends asked if wed split up. I live a long way from coventry and didnt have the funds to travel home. Im not going to lie, it was hard. But my kids want for nothing now. I also live an hour from my depot and cut costs by only using a small motorbike to commute. This resulted in frostbite on several occaisions and a couple offs on the ice. I really really wanted it and I found a way. I wouldnt exactly reccomend doing things the way I did but it is possible. Oh and also 36 is not that old for one of our apprentices. I started age 25 and there were plenty in their 30s. I have been told the oldest weve had previously was in his 50s. Id say early 20s is the average

As for Westwood being out the way I agree. Its not too bad though if you have transport, otherwise its a 25min walk and a train into coventry or Birmingham. I did it frequently.

 

[Edward Cairns]

Network Rail do employ people off the street as well, look for operative positions. You will start on a good wage and they send you on the courses and train you to do the job. The apprentice scheme is great if you can afford to do it but for people with kids and a mortgage it would be very hard. I work in the overhead line department been there for 5 years and before that I was a London Bus Driver, couldnt even change a plug now I work on 25k overheads

I always figured that you need some electrical qualification to go straight to the Operative role, what would you recommend to get in order to stand a better chance of getting any Operative role

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

The Apprentice contact is similar to Role Clarity and different to much of the front line staff who are mostly on Jarvis contracts.

It is tough but it is a sought after scheme that many people want to get on. When you complete your time, you go in as Technician, which is a good rate. I know staff who served their time in PWAY and now are a E&P PTO, so there is plenty of scope to move about.

As people have mentioned, the workforce is getting older and many are at retirement age, so there is scope for progression.

Go for it.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

I always figured that you need some electrical qualification to go straight to the Operative role, what would you recommend to get in order to stand a better chance of getting any Operative role

Depends on your area and discipline but by me its tricky and very competitive. The only successful external applicants weve had in the s&t lately have come from other heavy engineering roles where theyve done electrical engineering or similar as an apprenticeship. Qualifications alone are unlikely to cut it sadly. Ive got plenty but they value experience far more. You may find it easier to get in with a contractor first in all honesty.

As for changing from one discipline to another this is getting harder also. Still possible definitely but its much better to be clear about the discipline you want. We take on a lot of track apprentices who wanted s&t or and naturally they dont all get to change. Additionally if you have your sights on anything non technical or if you hope to be moving off track asap then you are better following a different route into the company. Design, project management, asset management jobs etc etc tend to be taken by people on the graduate programme. Possible after the apprenticeship but definitely not the most direct or logical route.

As ive mentioned before I do the q&a sessions at local assessment centres for the apprenticeship. I can answer most the common queries if you need to know anything

 

[M84]

Operative route seemed great for starting on a good salary but I never bothered as I just don't have relevant experience.

Even the apprenticeship wasn't easy to get. I applied in Sept 2018 and found out I was unsuccessful in Feb 2019. Then applied again in March and had the assessment in May to find out in July that I was unsuccessful again but would be put on the reserve list. Finally in September I was asked if I was still interested and was placed on the intake for March 2020.

Inital choice was P-Way but I was offered OH lines. After speaking to people, it seems lines are a good discipline and from what I've been told, track is a very physical discipline and probably not for me. I'm happy as there seems to be a mix of physical work at night and inspections during the day.

Obviously it will be a tough 3 years but coming out as a technician will be rewarding.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

Operative route seemed great for starting on a good salary but I never bothered as I just don't have relevant experience.

Even the apprenticeship wasn't easy to get. I applied in Sept 2018 and found out I was unsuccessful in Feb 2019. Then applied again in March and had the assessment in May to find out in July that I was unsuccessful again but would be put on the reserve list. Finally in September I was asked if I was still interested and was placed on the intake for March 2020.

Inital choice was P-Way but I was offered OH lines. After speaking to people, it seems lines are a good discipline and from what I've been told, track is a very physical discipline and probably not for me. I'm happy as there seems to be a mix of physical work at night and inspections during the day.

Obviously it will be a tough 3 years but coming out as a technician will be rewarding.

Exactly. Where are you based? Im in south wales, ours is very competitive but some areas are easier since they have more slots and fewer applicants.

For anyone in London and surrounding the apprenticeship is a no brainer because your prospects after completion are fantastic. You are likely to have swift promotions. Getting in depends a lot on how many positions vs how many applicants, definitely consider moving about a bit if theres other possible depots. Id reccomend anyone really interested try at least a second time though. I was a reserve candidate as was my colleague in depot but the guy who got the original post was actually a third time applicant. Odds are better now with two intakes but its still hard especially in quieter areas with few spaces.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

Oh and track is very physical indeed. It has its fun parts such as working in a big group with the banter and camaraderie. However dig a few wet beds in blazing sun, a rail change on a january night (it was -4° in work for me last night!) and youll soon be wishing you chose something else. I did my four week placement with the pway as required. They are fantastic fun but the work can be exhausting. If you like a bit of graft (i find it kinda therapeutic) then its not bad but if you are more head in a book of diagrams than all hands on shovels its not for you. Great for teamworking types. Rugby players (i wont mention footballers ) and the like will have an advantage due to the size of team you are used to. Its nice in that respect.

 

[M84]

Exactly. Where are you based? Im in south wales, ours is very competitive but some areas are easier since they have more slots and fewer applicants.

For anyone in London and surrounding the apprenticeship is a no brainer because your prospects after completion are fantastic. You are likely to have swift promotions. Getting in depends a lot on how many positions vs how many applicants, definitely consider moving about a bit if theres other possible depots. Id reccomend anyone really interested try at least a second time though. I was a reserve candidate as was my colleague in depot but the guy who got the original post was actually a third time applicant. Odds are better now with two intakes but its still hard especially in quieter areas with few spaces.

I'll be based at Gravesend (Singlewell) doing the lines. It's an hour commute from home but the location is pretty good and I imagine the work will involve Kent/London areas. I think competition down this way is fierce. I heard that 5000 people applied for the 150 places on the course but don't know if this is accurate or not.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

OHL pays more than most disciplines. I know lads who are in their early 20's pulling in big money due to the way they are rostered (12 hours), overtime, enhancements etc. 50k and above isn't uncommon.

PWAY is hard graft when you can actually get on and do something. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do anything through the day, even patrolling. Last week, a team had 14 minutes on track out of a 7 hour shift due to the volume of trains running.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

I'll be based at Gravesend (Singlewell) doing the lines. It's an hour commute from home but the location is pretty good and I imagine the work will involve Kent/London areas. I think competition down this way is fierce. I heard that 5000 people applied for the 150 places on the course but don't know if this is accurate or not.

That sounds likely. We usually get roughly that in applicants. You dont know how many were aiming for your post but it will have been a fair few im sure. I dont think youll cover a large patch there, theres a lot of depots but im not sure how many have OLE staff. I think youre close enough to london to have some excellent future prospects though especially if you are willing to move about a bit. Good luck and enjoy your depot when you get there Next time you see Dan, Wayne or Shaughna at westwood tell them Snowy says hello. Not sure who else is still there to be honest, i was the first cohort but they tend to remember the rainbow haired lady who you could hear coming from the other end of the building. Im difficult to forget.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

OHL pays more than most disciplines. I know lads who are in their early 20's pulling in big money due to the way they are rostered (12 hours), overtime, enhancements etc. 50k and above isn't uncommon.

PWAY is hard graft when you can actually get on and do something. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do anything through the day, even patrolling. Last week, a team had 14 minutes on track out of a 7 hour shift due to the volume of trains running.

Rosters are area specific though. Anyone on ex amey contracts will have a higher rate of pay (like us here in port talbot) but you have to remember that our pay isnt fully pensionable and thats a pretty big difference as far away as retirement might seem for us.

Off track pays the least, s&t pays very well but not sure if its the most. The important thing to remember is not how much it pays but does the job suit you? If you take s&t based on wage alone you may end up miserable and unfulfilled. By contrast you could take pway based on your own interests and work style and excel so much that youd outstrip s&t wages before long anyway. Its also handy to know that s&t apprentices take a lot longer to move up the grades. There are pway apprentices from my cohort who are earning far more than me because they were able to be promoted straight out of the apprenticeship. However myself and all the other s&t bunch still have a long long way to go before we are really pulling our weight as technicians. Theres so much to learn for us. Ive had five training courses since sign off in june and have got three more booked and still can name many more I really need too. That alongside doing my IRSE license, its a lot before I can even consider Im really a competent technician. By contrast the apprenticeship spits out pway apprentices with training that is above and beyind the pway tech so theres already huge potential

 

[alxndr]

However dig a few wet beds in blazing sun, a rail change on a january night (it was -4° in work for me last night!) and youll soon be wishing you chose something else.

I dunno, when I'm out on a half switch replacement and stood around waiting for the pway to do their bit before we can get in and put everything back together I wish I was able to do something to keep warm! It's all swings and roundabouts.

However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do anything through the day, even patrolling. Last week, a team had 14 minutes on track out of a 7 hour shift due to the volume of trains running.

It can be a nightmare. I've had several nights where I've had less than an hour's time on track because it's simply not been possible to get the blockages. Then there's other days where you simply don't stop at all.

 

[M84]

Contract came through yesterday and the wages have gone up slightly. The stay is 24 weeks which my wife noticed as when I started applying, the stay was 21 weeks. Not an issue as I'll still be driving home at weekend to see the family.

Can anyone please tell me roughly what the Monday to Friday times are in terms of when you're finished with classes and also what times you worked until on a Saturday.

Thanks!

 

[ZombieLaydee]

Contract came through yesterday and the wages have gone up slightly. The stay is 24 weeks which my wife noticed as when I started applying, the stay was 21 weeks. Not an issue as I'll still be driving home at weekend to see the family.

Can anyone please tell me roughly what the Monday to Friday times are in terms of when you're finished with classes and also what times you worked until on a Saturday.

Thanks!

Used to be 8am til 4pm daytime, i dont think this has changed much. They never used to allow you to stay offsite on a weeknight without special permission. This could have changed. The apprenticeship head now is a chap called Dan who is a lot more in tune with what it is to be an apprentice since hes an ex apprentice himself from the early days of the scheme. (2007 intake i think? Dont quote me on that but it just shows the potential here!)

Saturdays had been removed a couple cohorts ago. Id have to check if they are indeed back on. They are half days, you finish at 12.

 

[ZombieLaydee]

I dunno, when I'm out on a half switch replacement and stood around waiting for the pway to do their bit before we can get in and put everything back together I wish I was able to do something to keep warm! It's all swings and roundabouts.



It can be a nightmare. I've had several nights where I've had less than an hour's time on track because it's simply not been possible to get the blockages. Then there's other days where you simply don't stop at all.

This is true. I mean we normally get to sit in the van til they are done though. Having said this my -4 night shift was definitely not inside the van. Absolute nightmare of a fault with a mechanical fpl. Then straight onto a fault with a track circuit that lasted the rest of the shift. I regularly have a stop on in winter so my 12hrs runs over.

As for line blocks theres no need to tell me. I trained as a COSS in the summer (just after the tragic loss of two of our loveliest pway boys what a time to learn) and now Im taking the blocks most shifts.