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Network Rail Apprenticeships

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hedpe

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Hi

Would anyone out there be able to offer me any advice on the apprenticeships that Network rail offer? Would be great to hear from anyone who is currently on the course or who has completed it. I have always wanted to get into the railways and see this as a fantastic opportunity to move away from home and do something challenging and enjoyable. Any examples of activities that are involved? Is there a lot of practical work? What kind of people are they looking for?

Thanks,

Will.
 
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Hydro

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I am a former apprentice, having successfully completed it earlier this year.

Word on the street now is due to the continuous reorganisation of the company, jobs for the apprentices are thin on the ground upon completion, and be prepared for a local depot to not have any Apprentice positions. I'd say it was almost a requirement now be willing to move to where the work is. I had to move 200 miles to land a job that I really wanted once I'd finished. If you were to join next years intake (starting September 2011) then the situation may change by the time you finish.

That said; it's good. If you are willing to put the work in, and commit to the time required, it pays off. The attitude of wanting to move away from home and seek a challenge is good enough grounding to get in on this.

The first year is like school, lessons both theoretical and practical in subjects most relevant to the career pathj you choose (Engineering disciplines include Track, Signalling, Telecoms and Electrification and Plant; I believe there has also been inroads in supplying a Property Works path). You will be spoon fed a LOT of corporate bull****. Rise above this, I feel it really detracts from the core content of the course. Second and third years are spent on the ground, working with the Maintenance teams. What they do, you do. I have had exposure in some degree or another to almost EVERY piece of work that you'd find to do with Track maintenance engineering to the extent by my final year I was unofficially acting in the position of a Technical Officer. I have dug wet beds, patrolled, inspected S&C, passed trains over broken rails, done tamping design schemes, stressed rail, gauged structures, lifted and packed track, seasonal precautions, analysed track quality trends, plain line track renewals from walk out stage to relaying it to follow up tamping and reopening at linespeed. It is practical beyond belief. Upon completion, this exposure will give you a good idea as to what you would like to do, and pick a career path to follow.

All the above comes through your own efforts. It's very easy to languish in a gang and do nothing but patrol and dig holes with your mind in neutral, but if you put the effort in trying to get around a Delivery Unit and show your face and get stuck in, more doors will be open for you at the end.

As I have said, jobs are thin on the ground at the moment, in fact I am at a loss to think why they are still taking on Apprentices. If they are, jump in and wedge a foot in the door. Just be prepared to move, and work hard to find a job. Now more than ever you must stand out in - on graduation the vacancy list is swamped with Apprentices finding real work. Don't expect the world on a plate without working for it - too many do, and they don't last.
 

hedpe

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Some good solid advice you've given me which i really do appreciate. Judging from what is written on the Network Rail website there is a sense of rainbows and lollipops, though they do almost make it sound like joining the army. I guess the job is more a way of life. I like the sound of working on the ground with maintenance teams as part of the course. And it seems you managed to reap the rewards despite the difficulties of securing a job afterwards. Do you find the job rewarding? Being a bit cheeky here but what kind of benefits do you get as an employee of Network Rail? I wasn't expecting securing a job to be easy afterwards but im pretty eager to change careers and keen to learn new skills. Surely theres skills you'll learn that'll help you with any job? (communication, health and safety etc)

Thanks
 

Hydro

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They like to push the military ethos insofar that your training takes place using Royal Navy facilities, the engineering theory is largely provided by former Royal Navy and industry instructors, and a lot of the team leading and managment training is provided by current and ex-services personnel. I joined the scheme a little later than most and had military experience - there is definitely some crossover in terms of how the training is delivered, and the lifestyle of living on base with fixed sections of block leave for a year is a culture shock for some.

I love my current job. I loved being an Apprentice. I really wanted to milk it for all it was worth. You make some very solid friendships, you learn skills and (in your second/third years at Depot), you get stuck in on the ground, dealing with the live operational railway.

I feel I've been a bit luckier than most with the job I've managed to get on completion. It was pure luck that I heard about it, and I think it's fairly secure come any future re-organisation or even selling off of parts of NR. I know of some folk seething at how they've been treated since finishing (signing a contract for a position then having it withdrawn two days later, finding themselves displaced) and some folk that couldn't be happier with what they've been offered and what their prospects are. A lot of it depends on the area you work in and the people in your "chain of command" as to your support and guidance through your course.

Skills are definitely transferable. Your first year is pure engineering theory, there's actually not a great deal of hands on pure "railway". You learn that in your second and third years. You'll pick up a couple of team leading and management qualifications, a couple of NVQ's and a BTec along the way. If you don't already have them, you'll sit and be granted your literacy, numeracy and whatever else it is now Key Skills level 2.

You'll be eligible for the standard NR employee benefits package, which is better than a kick in the teeth - 60 (maybe 70 now? It was 50 when I started) per cent off an annual season ticket from home station to work (no such thing as free travel or Privs any more), offers from companies selling you stuff, and a package of money off O2 phone contracts as they now do our work phones.

Any other questions I'll be glad to answer them. It really is a good scheme, if played correctly. A lot of the feeling upon starting was that we were the "blue eyed boys", untouchable new breed, a new elite. You may even get that feeling off the upper echelons when you read the blurb and have the selection days, as the cynic in me thinks the scheme is a way to repopulate the lower areas of Network Rail as they get reorganised. I'd advise you not to fall into that trap if you go for it. Theory and classrooms only teach you so much, it's when you get out there in Year 2 and 3 that you meet those you really know their onions, it's those on the ground you should be trying to follow, not the corporate ideal. Network Rail may not exist in five years, but the railway certainly will. The ground force will always stay the same, the directors and their visions (which certainly direct the way the scheme is run) always change.
 

hedpe

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Down to the nitty gritty details now. What career paths are there? How good are the facilites at the royal navy? what are the dorms like? Having never had past military experience and coming from an IT background, i can foresee the culture shock. To what extent are the military ethos enforced? Out of curiosity :) i am rather well self disciplined but i do have hair down to my shoulders!
 

37401

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re military life, walk into a careers office and pick up a booklet, it's great reallly, stuff is much cheaper in terms of living costs

Joining the RLC as a train driver/ rail op sounds good, just search it on the army website
I've got a fair bit of info on it so PM me if you wish
 

Crossforth

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Hey

I'm also looking at this course but coming from a background of a sixth form in Leeds.
What are they looking for in terms of skills you already have?
 

37401

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Just a quick skim for the armed forces

Hair: you'll need it cut
Life: from what I've heard you'll love it
Dorms: en suite, TV, Sky, Broardband ect
Pay: £13k when you sign up, moves upto £17k, this is what you will have in your bank too, excludes pay you get while not in UK (£6 per day starting point)
 

Hydro

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Give me a day or so and I'll give you a proper write up, currently on mobile
Internet and I don't fancy writing an essay on my
phone :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Right, sorry for the wait but it's taken me a bit of time to get some Internet on the go.

Career paths

There are 4 disciplines you can choose. Track, Signalling, Electrification and Plant, and Telecoms. I did Track, and as such it's the one I know most about. Each one has it's own learning path, and will determine what subjects you study in Year 1, and your learning objectives for Years 2 and 3. Track will have you studying mechanical engineering and principles, Signalling and E&P will be electrical engineering and associated theory, and Christ knows what Telecoms do, as they never had that when I was there.

Some subjects in Year 1 are unique to that discipline, some are common to all, and some are common in varying intensity and differing subject matter.

Examples:

Maths is common to all. Broadly A-level mathematics.

Mechanical Principles is unique to Track students (Signalling and E&P students will do an equivalent).

Technical Drawing is common to all, but Electrical based students will concentrate on circuit diagrams, and Track learn third and first angle projections of components.

Bench fitting is common to all, but Electrical based students will only do two weeks, whilst Track do six (and it's a lot harder).

Year 2 and 3 sees you issued with a book with about 30 subjects in. You will have to do about 3,000 words on each subject, which you will learn about on your depot placements. Track students will have such things like patrolling, rail stressing, rail replacement, broken and damaged rails, rail renewals, track geometry etc. S&T have subjects on TPWS, level crossings, track circuits, methods of signalling, and E&P have high and low voltage plant and supply "stuff". Telecoms will have stuff on CSR, NRN and GSM-R I presume.

Facilities


...are awesome. Top notch. You can use everything the Navy can. That includes the gyms, swimming pools, shops, bars, all the sports facilities (very strongly encouraged, a "House system" operates and there are LOTS of inter-house events, all competing for the prize at the end of the year. The food is OK, lots of people used to Mum's cooking didn't like it so much, but as service food goes, I thought it was good. All free and paid for.

The dorms are of mixed quality. You stay at HMS Collingwood in year 1, and HMS Sultan for courses in year 2 and 3. All training is done at Sultan. There are two buildings available, Electra and Redlands at Collingwood. Electra is bigger and the primary building, most of the younger Apprentices, and all the females are installed here as it has constant supervision. It's nearest to the canteen ("the Hub") too. It has a mix of six man, four man, two man and single occupancy rooms. It's not too bad, has the most consistent hot water I believe. The rooms aren't too shabby, it's more the occupants that make the atmosphere pleasant or not. Redlands is a bit further away, isn't constantly manned, but is nearer the bar and shop. Only four and two man rooms here. Mainly the older males are exhibited here. More modern facilities in terms of showers and toilets. Generally quieter than the zoo that Electra could be. I stayed in Redlands and thought it was great. If you don't like where you are, or who you're with, the staff are fairly accommodating at moving you.


It's worth noting that in Years 2 and 3 you come back for two week courses, and you stay at Sultan itself in a place called Evenden House. It's not as good as the accommodation at Collingwood. Only single glazed building on the camp, and has a ******* of a condensation problem in winter. However, it has six man rooms or single occupancy rooms, the chances of privacy are higher here. I shared a room twice out of many trips down there.


The military ethos isn't so much short hair, shoulders back and "I'm going shove my pace stick through your ears and ride you around the parade ground like a f*cking motorbike", it's more team player orientated and self discipline. The whole system for you is run by civilians. The Navy seem to be there as a background activity, from your perspective. Getting up early and on time, being places five minutes before, taking part in team events, that sort of thing. You will be expected to study in your own time, and submit projects on time. You can wear your NR gear as you like and have as long hair as you want.
 
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hedpe

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Hiya

Glad to read the military ethos is only enforced as much as it is needed. Im tightening up my CV over the course of this month intime for january. Im guessing the selection process is similar to that of most other roles on the railway (hopefully not the long and slow part!). Ive noticed TFL are also doing their own apprenticeships which could be worth investigating. Anyway, you've given some great info for me to think about and i dont think i could ask for much more except...What kind of people are they looking for personality wise? What kind of things make you stand out in your application?

Thanks again for the time and effort. Great to read without any kind of NR bias!
 

Hydro

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I'd say enthusiasm to learn new skills would be a good starter, with an eye on developing a successful career. The selection days are quite big on problem solving and team work, showing you can think well under pressure and stay calm and collected helps a great deal. They're looking for someone who can eventually sit there at 0400 in the morning in the p*ssing rain, in charge of a team of rapidly demoralised blokes in a time critical T3 that's falling apart and approaching hand back time, and can organise a plan of action to get that track reopened to a safe standard on time - with everyone going home with all limbs attached and organs working. Safety is a massive part of the railway, and showing you have due consideration for the safety of yourself and others is a huge plus.
 

Southwark

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Hiya

I am just about to fill in an application for the apprentice programme starting in September this year.

I was wondering whether anyone who had been through it could tell me about the criminal record and security check. The form does ask about them, but I was wondering what checks they actually make. Will I have to go through a CRB check?

I have a police record, as I had a caution from the police when I was a kid - but I really don't want this to stop me from getting on the scheme, or to be shown in a bad light

Thanks a lot
 

Daniel

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I had to have a full CRB check with London Underground for my apprenticeship.

From what I'd heard, a caution shouldn't be a problem, they're more looking for fraud etc..
 

142094

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I had to have a full CRB check with London Underground for my apprenticeship.

From what I'd heard, a caution shouldn't be a problem, they're more looking for fraud etc..

Would a caution actualy show up on a CRB check? AFAIK it is convictions only.

EDIT Apparently cautions do show up.
 

Hydro

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The NR scheme needs a full MoD security vetting procedure as the training is using active MoD facilities. Be VERY honest on this; criminal convictions aren't an automatic bar depending on the type (almost certainly a caution won't be), but lying is. Your clearance will be denied. You won't have a CRB check.
 

miikey

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Im on the apprenticeship scheme at the moment. Im in my 2nd year.
I have to say, one of the hardest things that most people faced was moving away from home for a long period of time. It wasn't so bad for me as im from London and i only had to move down to Portsmouth. If your from up North, however, it's a lot harder as you will only be able to go back home on designated weekends when Network Rail pays for your travel. A few of my mates were from Leeds and they hired a car everyweekend towards the end and drove up, this could prove costly however.
The training was... average. It annoyed me because i had already completed an NVQ level 2 in Mechanical Engineering but Network Rail said I had to do it all over again becuase they wanted everyone trained to the same standard. The classroom work is easy, for anyone that has average GCSE's shouldnt find it too hard. If you come from Sixth Form you will probably be bored for the first few months as it's very basic until you get into the more involved side of the subjects.
The practical work is good. Bench fitting for six weeks got a bit boring towards the end, as it seemed like all you were doing was standing there filing a piece of metal all day! Mechanical Devices is good, you get to take apart and inspect a points motor, which you get assessed on. Even though your not allowed to go near them out on track. Pointless?
Once you finish you start at your Depot. Im at Romford on the GE. It's much better in the 2nd and 3rd years. You get to do work actually based on the railway, whereas in the 1st year you don't. Ive been doing everything; planning work, installing new rails, maintaining S&C and Plain Line, Structure Gauging, Lubrication inspections. If you don't already like the railway, which im assuming everybody here loves the railway, you will certainly start to love it.

Regards to the Military clearence and attidute, its ok at Sultan when your in the 2nd and 3rd years but I thought at Collingwood, its more strict. They really don't like Network Rail over there aha!
 

Hydro

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Mechanical Devices is good, you get to take apart and inspect a points motor, which you get assessed on. Even though your not allowed to go near them out on track. Pointless?

Not really, you're not learning about the points motor per se, rather how mechanical devices interact and work - it just so happens you use point motors and clamp locks to learn about clutches, gears and hydraulics, and techniques for stripping parts down. You could equally use a car, but I don't think NR had yards of old cars to hand down to the scheme.


As for travelling, a lot of my mates took their cars down and parked them locally (Asda is good for parking in). The blurb only says you cannot take your cars on base.
 

miikey

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Yea, I know. I wouldn't know anything about clutches of it wasn't for that. Seems silly for Track to get assessed on taking them apart, when Signals have to look at them in the field but they don't get assessed on it in Portsmouth. :P
 

Hydro

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It did seem a bit daft, I agree. Still glad it's all over, the money isn't the best to live on.
 

Dolive22

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I doubt it will be a full MoD security check. At most it would be a Counter Terrorism Check, which is basically checking that Special Branch and MI5 don't know anything alarming about you, like that you keep going in to houses with people who make car bombs. More of an issue would be making sure Network Rail want you to be maintaining a peice of rail that a passenger train will go over at 125 mph with hundreds of people onboard.

I would guess they would be looking for drink, drugs and stupidity that makes them think you might screw up, whether deliberately or otherwise.
 

Hydro

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I doubt it will be a full MoD security check. At most it would be a Counter Terrorism Check, which is basically checking that Special Branch and MI5 don't know anything alarming about you, like that you keep going in to houses with people who make car bombs.

You undergo the same vetting as anyone joining the armed forces, it's exactly the same form, and it goes to exactly the same people. If that's a CTC check then it's that one then. It was the same procedure as when I joined the military. Buff form, stapled together, takes ages to fill out. Seen enough of the buggers. It's all to do with having access to live MoD facilities in a working Naval environment.
 

Dolive22

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That's CTC. It allows access to government buildings that some people want to reduce to rubble. The Basic Check included in it gives access to information up to Restriced or Confidential, can't remember which.
 

Crossforth

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Hey guys, I've just progressed to the third stage in which the e-mail says will be the assessment stage.

Does anyone know what this will include?
 

Hydro

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I honestly cannot remember. So long ago now. I remember there was an online application form, a regional selection day, and an interview with the Engineer/Delivery Unit Manager at your chosen depot. What have you done so far?
 

Crossforth

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Currently I've done the initial filling out of the application form and the personal statements and the second stage was 24 online questions about what you would do in such and such a situation.

Next it says is the assessment which they will set a date for.
 

Hydro

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Ah, that's the selection day. You'll get a date and a place, with travel provided. It's normally at a hotel, using the conference/corporate facilities. It's a full day, and will give you a look into life on the scheme, briefings as to what career paths you can choose and you'll make a final decision on that on the day.

You will be assessed on:

Maths and English tests, these are timed and the aim is to complete as much as possible in the allotted time. It's about GCSE level, nothing to break too much of a sweat over.

Mechanical comprehension, stuff like "If cog A turns anticlockwise, then what direction will cog G turn?" whilst looking at a diagram of some Heath Robinson contraption.

Fault finding, basically a test with pictures of lights *coughsignalscough*. It'll say something like "Light A can only be lit if switch D is off, but Light D is controlled by switch C which also controls light A, what colour are the electricians trousers if the pockets contain Relay F?" (that facetious example is still simpler than mechanical interlocking, I gather).

There's the obligatory team building exercise, big bag of jumbo lego or plastic meccano, "Build a structure in your teams that only has one side, two right angles, only touches the floor on one corner and is capable of faster-than-light travel, you have 15 minutes".

It's all fairly straightforward. You will be assessed at all times, dress smart but comfortably, take a pen as a good thing to do in the team building exercise is take notes during the group briefing, and talk to people. Everyones in the same boat, talk to the staff, and there'll be current apprentices there to talk to you about the lifestyle.

Lunch is included. Take them for all they're worth.
 

miikey

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Ill be working at the selection days in London. Ill report what its like from the Network Rail side of the fence lol.
When is your selection day? A few of my class mates are based in Leeds, they may be there aswell.
 
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