Network Rail seek former signallers

[717001]

This was posted yesterday on the Network Rail Kings Cross Twitter feed

Calling all former signallers

We're looking for any former signallers who are interested in getting back involved in the role to prepare us for the effects of #COVID19 on our workforce.

Please RT this to reach those who may be interested, and DM us for more info.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailKGX/status/1241015934850039816

Posting it on here, in case anyone is qualified and willing to help, but not on Twitter.

 

[The Planner]

This was posted yesterday on the Network Rail Kings Cross Twitter feed


https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailKGX/status/1241015934850039816

Posting it on here, in case anyone is qualified and willing to help, but not on Twitter.

All regions and routes are doing it.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Many routes are also suggesting heritage signallers will be used. Which to me is a dangerous precedent. And I know I'm not the only one who thinks so

 

[Ianno87]

Many routes are also suggesting heritage signallers will be used. Which to me is a dangerous precedent. And I know I'm not the only one who thinks so

Presumably there'll be a selection process to determine the ones most capable of 'forgetting what they think they know' and proper training amd initial supervision.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Presumably there'll be a selection process to determine the ones most capable of 'forgetting what they think they know' and proper training amd initial supervision.

I'd hope so. But I can't see that happening.

 

[LOM]

The whole thing raises a lot of questions and potential issues. To me the idea seems entirely impractical, though that is just my personal opinion I obviously do not speak for my employer. I know one person who everyone was very glad to see the back of when he left the grade has already been knocking at the door. It has not been agreed with the Union yet either.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The whole thing raises a lot of questions and potential issues. To me the idea seems entirely impractical, though that is just my personal opinion I obviously do not speak for my employer. I know one person who everyone was very glad to see the back of when he left the grade has already been knocking at the door. It has not been agreed with the Union yet either.

I expect my Union will have something to say about it! I've already discussed it with my H&S rep

 

[LOM]

The other thing is if you have retired and taken your pension lump sum then come back to work for the same employer and role within a certain time there is a really punitive tax implication as well.

 

[RT4038]

So here we are, in an unprecedented national emergency, and all that can be thought of is 'dangerous precedent' and 'tax implication' as to why something can't/shouldn't be done. Get a grip please. If you are all off sick / isolating whatever, I would far rather be signalled by an ex-employee with lots of knowledge than someone who knows nothing at all, or a shutdown of service. Trying to make ourselves indispensable are we?

 

[tiptoptaff]

So here we are, in an unprecedented national emergency, and all that can be thought of is 'dangerous precedent' and 'tax implication' as to why something can't/shouldn't be done. Get a grip please. If you are all off sick / isolating whatever, I would far rather be signalled by an ex-employee with lots of knowledge than someone who knows nothing at all, or a shutdown of service. Trying to make ourselves indispensable are we?

Quality signallers ARE indispensable. What we are talking about here is off the street hobby bobbies being taken as quality signallers. Many of them are not. Unprecedented national emergency or not, safety must NOT be compromised.

Many times we are told, out on the network, heritage experience counts for nothing, only the highly detailed and in depth training provided by NR, TOCs and FOCs is. Yet here we are, saying "if you've signalled a few steam trains come and have a go at Kings Cross"
So either it's always comparable, or, most likely, it never is.

I don't take issue with the retired signallers so much. They have done it before and can be refreshed to do it again.
The hobby bobbies, however....

 

[Tom Quinne]

Many routes are also suggesting heritage signallers will be used. Which to me is a dangerous precedent. And I know I'm not the only one who thinks so

It’s the same feeling in the grade, we’re willing to bend over backwards to help - but no way will we allow hobby bobbies who aren’t qualified signallers run panels or boxes.

 

[Tom Quinne]

So here we are, in an unprecedented national emergency, and all that can be thought of is 'dangerous precedent' and 'tax implication' as to why something can't/shouldn't be done. Get a grip please. If you are all off sick / isolating whatever, I would far rather be signalled by an ex-employee with lots of knowledge than someone who knows nothing at all, or a shutdown of service. Trying to make ourselves indispensable are we?

Let’s go the whole nine yards shall we, local heritage railway drivers jump on a IET at Kings Cross with Fed the signalman from another heritage railway in the panel.

The train service may be thinned down, but the outside world and all it’s risks won’t take a day off.

 

[LOM]

Trying to make ourselves indispensable are we?

Not at all it just does not seem very practical to me, as someone who would be tasked with direct line management of these people.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Not at all it just does not seem very practical to me, as someone who would be tasked with direct line management of these people.

You raise a good point, who will sign off these people? Potential liability if the wheels fall off could be massive.

 

[Mag_seven]

During the Railtrack signallers strike in 1994, local OPS managers etc operated certain boxes - just an observation, not saying it was right or wrong.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Operations managers, and any other competent management grades no problem.

But drafting in heritage staff who aren’t competent current network rail signallers is a huge no.

 

[LOM]

During the Railtrack signallers strike in 1994, local OPS managers etc operated certain boxes - just an observation, not saying it was right or wrong.

Operational management - MOMs LOMs and OMs - who are signalling trained and enrolled in the competence management system are operating boxes right now. Some even as I write this. I was working a signalbox this week due to COVID-19.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Quality signallers ARE indispensable. What we are talking about here is off the street hobby bobbies being taken as quality signallers. Many of them are not. Unprecedented national emergency or not, safety must NOT be compromised.

Many times we are told, out on the network, heritage experience counts for nothing, only the highly detailed and in depth training provided by NR, TOCs and FOCs is. Yet here we are, saying "if you've signalled a few steam trains come and have a go at Kings Cross"
So either it's always comparable, or, most likely, it never is.

I don't take issue with the retired signallers so much. They have done it before and can be refreshed to do it again.
The hobby bobbies, however....

Too right. A lot of idiots on heritage railways think they know it all. I can think of at least one person who volunteered on heritage before managing to get a proper drivers job out on the mainline and he was a complete liability, having incidents all over the place. I think railway people who volunteer on heritage lines are a good thing but the other way around is quite often a recipe for disaster.

I took my partners kids on a heritage railway and we went up to look at the steam engine. Now I dont know the first thing about steam and wouldnt claim to. Ive only ever driven modern EMUs. The bloke was giving it large about this and that, making out he was Billy Big-B*****ks because he drove a train. I dropped into conversation that I was a driver and he completely changed, becoming almost hostile towards me. The guy was a complete tosser - even the seven and ten year olds thought so. I dont like the idea of of these heritage chancers out on the proper railway. Some of the practices I've seen them get up to are like something out of Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

[theironroad]

Asking recently retired/left signallers to return is no different to the doctors and nurses the NHS has requested.

After some refresher training they'll be able to resume their role. Whether they wish to or not is another matter.

Before the fake news runs out of control , I don't see anyone saying that a heritage railway only signaller is about to be popped into KGX on any other major (or any) box.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Recently retired within 6 months now issue, to their former location - refresh for a week competent.

6 months plus to a new location no.

There should be enough flexibility the union has agreed to huge relaxation in our fostering principles, and manning agreements to allow all major routes to remain open in an extreme shortage.

There’s even an agreement to allow isolation of staff from our homes to hotels if required.

Our union is (for once) actually working and willing to help the company, Railway and nation keep the railway running as are us staff who to be honest have much more important things to worry about just like everyone else.

What we will not allow is our profession to become a laughing stock with heritage railway staff manning any location, it’s dangerous.

 

[LOM]

Before the fake news runs out of control , I don't see anyone saying that a heritage railway only signaller is about to be popped into KGX on any other major (or any) box.

The press releases from Eastern Region and North West & Central Region both specifically mentioned heritage railway preserved line volunteers.

 

[Tom Quinne]

The press releases from Eastern Region and North West & Central Region both specifically mentioned heritage railway preserved line volunteers.

You have to wonder how on earth thought that a good idea, and to release it publicly !

 

[theironroad]

The press releases from Eastern Region and North West & Central Region both specifically mentioned heritage railway preserved line volunteers.

You have to wonder how on earth thought that a good idea, and to release it publicly !

Oh, I see. Haven't seen the original press release but seems it has been reported by 'Transport Network' on behalf of Wales and western. The quote includes heritage and also signallers who may have retired 10-15 years ago.

I'd suggest a lot has changed in 10 years...

 

[LOM]

Oh, I see. Haven't seen the original press release but seems it has been reported by 'Transport Network' on behalf of Wales and western. The quote includes heritage and also signallers who may have retired 10-15 years ago.

I'd suggest a lot has changed in 10 years...

I would agree 100% with that statement.

 

[AntoniC]

Asking recently retired/left signallers to return is no different to the doctors and nurses the NHS has requested.

After some refresher training they'll be able to resume their role. Whether they wish to or not is another matter.

Before the fake news runs out of control , I don't see anyone saying that a heritage railway only signaller is about to be popped into KGX on any other major (or any) box.

My stepmum ( who was medically retired 2 1/2 years ago from the NHS as a radiographer) has been asked to go back to work.

 

[Tom Quinne]

What makes her now fit for duty, if she was medically retired?

 

[tiptoptaff]

My rep has advised me to keep a note of everything that occurs that isn't quite right, right down to the Comms (which if we're honest can be a bit lax at times anyway!)

What assurances and training plans are to be put in place to ensure the safety of the railway?

 

[Ianno87]

My rep has advised me to keep a note of everything that occurs that isn't quite right, right down to the Comms (which if we're honest can be a bit lax at times anyway!)

What assurances and training plans are to be put in place to ensure the safety of the railway?

Presumably, in the interests of fairness, you'll also note anything that "isn't quite right" with the practices of existing signallers?

To deliberately not do that would be irresponsible, right?

 

[Mag_seven]

The press releases from Eastern Region and North West & Central Region both specifically mentioned heritage railway preserved line volunteers.

Is there a link to these press releases?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Presumably, in the interests of fairness, you'll also note anything that "isn't quite right" with the practices of existing signallers?

To deliberately not do that would be irresponsible, right?

I didn't say I'd discriminate, we don't know who's at the end of the phone.
But I don't feel comfortable knowing that my NR3190 may be dictated to me by someone who's never heard of ESW