Network Railcard - Identical Ticket for Companion?

Status
Not open for further replies.

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
5,112
A question about the network railcard. For someone travelling with you to get the discount on your railcard, do they merely have to be travelling with you or do they have to have an identical ticket?

The situation that makes me ask is: I'll be making a journey with my railcard. My partner will be with me, but she will already have an Oyster travelcard, which means she only needs to buy a ticket from the relevent Oyster zone boundary to our destination, whereas I need to buy a ticket for the whole journey? Can I get both tickets discounted, or would she have to buy a ticket for the entire journey as well to get the discount?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
7,697
Location
Rail replacement bus cab
The only qualifier is that the traveller must hold a Network Railcard, or accompany someone who does.

Therefore yes, what you're asking is perfectly acceptable.
 

benk1342

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2011
Messages
357
Location
Welwyn Garden City
My wife and I do this regularly, and the ticket window staff (FCC at Welwyn Garden City) happily sell the tickets and have told me it is fine.

I have a monthly season WGC to London Terminals, so if we go in on the weekend we buy a Network Railcard WGC - London Zones 1-6 for her (£8.60 super off peak) and a Network Railcard in-boundary Zones 1-6 for me (£5.60). The first time we did it I was nervous about it and fully explained the situation to the ticket agent. He looked at me like I was crazy for even worrying about it and said of course it was fine.

I also agree with RJ that under a strict reading of the Ts&Cs it is permitted.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
Another situation where this is acceptable is:

Persons A & B are travelling from Reading A is going to slough B to Paddington, the network card is in B's name and both are using discounted tickets and as long as they come back on the same train od a is using a single then this is allowed.

However if the railcard was in the name of person A this would not be permitted to travel past Slough, if they did so they would be treated as travelling without a valid ticket.

The only stipulation is that you must travel with the railcard holder if travelling on tickets discounted by it.

I have no idea what would happen in the unlikely hypothetical situation, if in the example above friend C joined B on the same train a Slough and was also going to Paddington and held a Disabled persons railcard. Would B's ticket be valid or invalid for travel beyond Slough?
 

benk1342

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2011
Messages
357
Location
Welwyn Garden City
Another situation where this is acceptable is:

Persons A & B are travelling from Reading A is going to slough B to Paddington, the network card is in B's name and both are using discounted tickets and as long as they come back on the same train od a is using a single then this is allowed.

I'm not so sure about this one. Theoretically this might be acceptable, but A would likely run into trouble if challenged at the gateline at Slough as she watches the train pull away with B's Network Railcard on board.

The question is: Does "travelling" end when you get off the train or when you have left the paid-fare zone, i.e., gone through the gateline? I suspect the TOCs would argue the latter, claiming that a reasonable person entering into a contract to travel with the TOC would know that a valid ticket is required from gateline to gateline.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
I'm not so sure about this one. Theoretically this might be acceptable, but A would likely run into trouble if challenged at the gateline at Slough as she watches the train pull away with B's Network Railcard on board.

The question is: Does "travelling" end when you get off the train or when you have left the paid-fare zone, i.e., gone through the gateline? I suspect the TOCs would argue the latter, claiming that a reasonable person entering into a contract to travel with the TOC would know that a valid ticket is required from gateline to gateline.

There is no requirement for the railcard holder to accompany someone to the gateline, although yes this may save some hassle.
 

benk1342

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2011
Messages
357
Location
Welwyn Garden City
There is no requirement for the railcard holder to accompany someone to the gateline, although yes this may save some hassle.

No, but there is a requirement that a person on the platform have a valid ticket (at least in the areas relevant to this discussion). And an NSE-discounted ticket without the accompanying Network Railcard is not a valid ticket.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
No, but there is a requirement that a person on the platform have a valid ticket (at least in the areas relevant to this discussion). And an NSE-discounted ticket without the accompanying Network Railcard is not a valid ticket.

Why is Slough station a compulsory ticket area now?
 

benk1342

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2011
Messages
357
Location
Welwyn Garden City
Why is Slough station a compulsory ticket area now?

FGW applies penalty fares to journeys from Slough, and I assumed---apparently incorrectly---that compulsory-ticket areas and penalty-fare zones were coextensive. If that isn't the case then I take back my analysis with respect to Slough, though I stand by it with respect to stations with compulsory ticket areas.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
5,112
Thx for the replies everyone. And wow - that means the network railcard is even better value than I'd thought it was.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
FGW applies penalty fares to journeys from Slough, and I assumed---apparently incorrectly---that compulsory-ticket areas and penalty-fare zones were coextensive. If that isn't the case then I take back my analysis with respect to Slough, though I stand by it with respect to stations with compulsory ticket areas.

You do still raise a valid point about gate lines in these circumstances (which I had forgotten about), where I would hope it would be up to the TOC to prove that you did not have a valid ticket whilst on the train rather than the ticket holder having to prove they did.
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,472
Location
North of the rivers
You do still raise a valid point about gate lines in these circumstances (which I had forgotten about), where I would hope it would be up to the TOC to prove that you did not have a valid ticket whilst on the train rather than the ticket holder having to prove they did.

I've wondered about this before. I'd be interested to know if there's any detailed reading of the CoC or any legal precedent which clarifies the situation.

My opinion is that once travel - ie on a train - is complete, there should be no need to show a ticket (excluding the elusive CTA). However this is obviously unrealistic otherwise anyone could rock up to the barrier and say that their mate has the Railcard - or even that they left their ticket on the train.

 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
5,112
Why is Slough station a compulsory ticket area now?

More to the point, do you have to show your ticket to a human being at Slough? I've not been to Slough, but it's years since I've seen a station where the normal method of exit is by showing your ticket to an inspector. All the non-open stations I know of have automatic barriers - which would mean that you'd only have to show your ticket to someone if the barriers don't work for some reason. Looks to me like that makes it highly unlikely that the person in this hypothetical example would be challenged.
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,472
Location
North of the rivers
Unless the barriers had been set to reject all Railcard discounted tickets. Unlikely, but it happens, and would make you look more suspicious if queried.
 

benk1342

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2011
Messages
357
Location
Welwyn Garden City
Unless the barriers had been set to reject all Railcard discounted tickets. Unlikely, but it happens, and would make you look more suspicious if queried.

I've found that when the barriers are in operation on FCC's Great Northern route they often reject railcard-discounted tickets. And Peterborough has no barriers but almost always has a dude checking tickets at the (single, all-too-narrow given the size of the station) door between the concourse and the platforms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top