Never Buy Anything From Hewlett Packard

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by yorksrob, 16 Nov 2017.

  1. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Member

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    You can do this pretty much risk-free:

    1: Download and install Macrium Reflect free edition. Include the WindowsPE components offered.
    2: Use Reflect to create a system image of your entire HDD; store that on separate external media. Also, use Reflect to create a WinPE boot disc.
    3: Download and install Win10. You can still do this for free - google it.
    4: Use and decide.
    5: If necessary revert to your system image by booting from the WinPE Boot Disc and using it to restore your image back to your HDD.

    It's what I did - except for step 5 which I have never felt the need to do.
     
  2. CarlSilva

    CarlSilva Member

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    I've had a few HPs over the years. My first one was a scanner printer. It worked really well and I managed to refill the black ink cartriedg a load of times before it had to be replaced with a non genuine one. I must have had that printer for about 5 years, so value for money there. Next one wasn't so great. It's made so it's really difficult to use refilled cartridges, even genuine ones. They work, but not very well, andif you fill them up, they don't work at all until hours later.
    I bout a £25 brand new laser printer off ebay thats' doing good so far.

    This thing it was. - postage a bit more but its' heavy :(

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Pant...036437&hash=item3f7085df64:g:PgUAAOSw4GVYQIQC
     
  3. mbonwick

    mbonwick Established Member

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    I've always been of the opinion that HP produce good printers. We used to have 3, never had a problem (and then swapped to an Epson as there wasn't a comparable HP for what we wanted in the right price range - a decision I now regret!)

    On that basis, I bought a HP laptop 3 years ago (admittedly a bit of a panic purchase as the then-current laptop had died), and frankly I really wish I hadn't bothered. While the top line specs look great on paper, a lot of the smaller (but more noticable) features have been penny-pinched, e.g. it only has a 100mb/s NIC, and only came with 2.4GHz 802.11n wifi (since swapped out to 5GHz 802.11ac) via one aerial (so couldn't even fully utilise 802.11n - since added a second which has improved things).

    So all in all, recent years have thoroughly put me off HP and I don't think I'd ever buy from them. Future purchases are likely to be Asus for laptop/network hardware and Samsung for printing I think.
     
  4. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    HP's laptop range is skewed towards the enterprise rather than consumer marketplace. We use them at work and I can't really complain about the one I'm using.
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    My work one (one of the Elitebooks that looks like a Macbook clone) is an excellent quality piece of kit. Not cheap, though, coming in at a similar £1500-ish price to a Macbook Pro. (People think Macs are expensive, in fact they are not, it's just that unlike Windows machines there is no budget end offering for £350 at Tesco).
     
  6. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    So HP seems to be a company getting lazy and relying on it's reputation. Seen that too many times.
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Is it? I really have not noticed a quality problem with any HP kit I've used, and I encounter quite a lot of it. It is certainly a brand I would choose deliberately over others, one that does seem to care about quality and design rather than buying in[1] cheap Chinese tat of any design and badging it.

    Yes, of course it has budget ranges, but don't let those cloud your judgement, see them as what they are.

    If buying a new printer I would be unlikely to consider another brand.

    [1] I'm sure it's made in China as just about all IT kit is, but there's a difference between buying whatever tat is on sale on Alibaba.com and putting branding on it, and specifying your own design and quality and working closely with chosen factories to deliver it.
     
  8. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    My comment was a response to one of the posters above who pointed out how difficult it is to use refilled cartridges. Such things turn me off a company very quickly.

    Just because a product is 'budget', I still expect it to work properly.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    You have to understand the business model.

    HP's budget printers work on the same basis as games consoles. The hardware is supplied as a loss leader, the true cost is paid as a cut from the ink cartridge sales. This allows a low headline sales price, but for those printing in low volumes doesn't really cost the individual any more and allows you to spread payment without worrying about interest, credit cards etc. The software that makes it a bit harder (not at all impossible, there are plenty of compatible cartridges on the market, you just get errors which you can ignore) to use refilled cartridges is part of that.

    If you print high volumes, you need to consider the business ranges of printer. Those are sold at a much higher price initially, but the ink is supplied at a lower price (more based on the traditional cost + profit margin basis).

    Printers and games consoles are not the only market this happens in. PAYG mobile phones are similarly subsidised on initial purchase hence SIM locks and the likes. Does anyone genuinely think you can make, deliver and support a mobile phone for £10, as the cheapest ones are?
     
  10. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I certainly don't expect to have to faff about trying to print text. When I plug it in and print something, it should print it.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Then buy a Mac[1], Chromebook or dedicated word-processing device.

    Windows always will have configuration issues because it runs on a huge range of hardware (basically near enough anything that has an Intel CPU or compatible and an IBM style BIOS, plus at Pro level a load of others too). It is genuinely difficult to provide that level of support on non-standardised hardware.

    [1] Which, FWIW, is no more than a PC in hardware terms - it's just MacOS only has to run on a very limited set of different hardware options and so can be tested much more extensively on those hardware options.
     
  12. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I'd rather these companies made stuff which worked in the first place.

    I have an acquaintance who tells me that within thirty years the computer industry will have achieved the 'singularity' in which technology will have advanced so far that mankind can simply upload itself and live forever. Perhaps as a starting point they can crack the far more difficult conundrum of developing a budget printer that works with Windows.
     
  13. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It does work. The issue is that it has to coexist with a huge range of other devices and software and that's where the problems start. For example, if your HP printer was a replacement for another model, I'm willing to bet that you didn't uninstall the previous drivers - which means that there will be redundant drivers sitting in the background that wouldn't have existed in HP's test environment.
     
  14. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Funnily enough, I think that's the first printer I've had with this computer. That said, nothing I use is particularly obscure.
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Exactly. It's the problem you get with such a flexible environment as Windows. Even Android is starting to have that kind of issue.

    If you absolutely need to avoid it, buy hardware with software specifically designed for and extensively tested[1] with it, e.g. the Apple ecosystem.

    [1] It is not economically viable, unless you like paying maybe £2000 for your copy of Windows, to fully test it against every PC and peripheral model available.
     
    Last edited: 19 Nov 2017
  16. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It doesn't have to be obscure. I recently had video card driver problems (random blue screens) caused by an update to my audio drivers - both are mainstream laptop components.
     
  17. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    The fact is that computers, their software and their peripherals are continually evolving in a very competitive market. For instance, HP is competing in the consumer inkjet market with Canon and Epson. All three of the manufacturers market printers that sell at a loss with the intention of getting their customers needing replacements cartridges which are easy to sell at a profit thereby subsidising the low price of the original printers. As the commecial world abhors a vacuum, many small operators set up to provide functional cartridges much cheaper than the OEM ones which meant that the printer manufacturers had to prevent or make more difficult. They used various devices, in particular by embedding a chip (costing a few pence) in the cartridge which the printer needed to 'talk to' before printing. Some more persistent 'after-market' cartridge suppliers continued in what has become a tech., war where they battle it out with the printer manufacturers trying to defeat each update to the design. If you want to continue to use cheap cartridges with consumer printers you need to keep up with these changes. Alternatively, as Bletchleyite say above, either get a business printer costing more and get cheaper consumables or pay the 'apple tax' and get a Mac or ipad device. Even then, because ciminal elements are constanly trying to hack into consumer computers, you will need to update elements of software as often as manufacturers release fixes otherwise you may end up assisting in such criminal activities.
    Owning a computing device is in part a responsibility in which you need to maintain the product, (or pay somebody else to do it).
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The "Apple tax" does exist on iOS devices but much less so on Macs. A Macbook Pro is basically a Windows PC with a different OS (specially designed and tested intensively on a very small hardware range). It isn't significantly pricier than genuinely equivalent Windows laptops, it's just that there are no £350 Tesco Value specials.
     
  19. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Sorry - what relevance has this to do with the subject at all ?

    I should point out that the only printer cartridges I've attempted to use are those that were supplied with the printer. I would have thought that they could design a printer to work with their own consumables.
     
    Last edited: 19 Nov 2017
  20. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Member

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    When I last looked at what was on offer in Costco, there was
    - a MacBook, i5, 8gb, 256gbSSD alongside
    - an HP Win10 i5, 8gb, 256gb SSD laptop with a similar screen size
    Now there may well have been other substantial differences, but these are the headline specifications.
    At £720, the HP was about half the price of the MacBook.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Metal case? Stylistic points?

    If those don't appeal to you don't buy a Mac, but they are added cost and value to many people.
     
  22. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Not to mention the ability to run macOS.
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Personally I find macOS the weakest part - the UI is utterly antiquated. That said, I'm aware views vary on this.
     
  24. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    None of your posts in this thread have suggested that your printer doesn't work with it's specified consumables, so your words above: "I would have thought that they could design a printer to work with their own consumables" are not about the problems that you are having.
    My comment: "... you will need to update elements of software as often as manufacturers release fixes ..." is likely very relevant and rather than just criticise HP out of hand, you really need to ensure that you don't have a computer with out of date and potentially vulnerable software on it. If the use of your computer is important to you, you need to understand the importance of system software maintenance. Just because it worked once, it doesn't mean that will stay that way forever. Microsoft (and Apple) as well as responsible hardware manufacturers (which HP is) try to make self-support as easy as practicable for lay users given the diversity of issues that can arise.
     
  25. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    But you assume that I don't update my products. My computer is updated regularly.
     
  26. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    How about your printer drivers (and any other item that has manufacturers provided drivers)?
     
  27. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    My son who lives in the Southwold area seems to have no problem with Hewlett Packard products, as he recently upgraded to a HP 2840 Workstation and a HP DreamColor Z24 x 24" WUXGA IP5 monitor, that he uses in his home office.
     
  28. D6975

    D6975 Established Member

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    I've been using Windows since 3.1. The best to use was IMHO XP with service pack 2. From then it was all downhill hitting a low with 8 and now gradually getting better again. I'm now using 7 on my desktop, 8.1 on a netbook and 10 on my laptop. 10 is proving to be very reliable and as yet has never crashed on me.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It seems to alternate once you get past a certain point:

    3.11 OK
    95 OKish
    95 OSR2 good
    98 OKish
    ME garbage
    XP good
    Vista garbage
    7 good
    8 garbage
    10 good
     
  30. dgl

    dgl Member

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    Just one thing you missed out 98SE in the consumer operating systems which was the only time Microsoft charged for what was essentially a service pack and possibly Windows 2000 but that was more business rather than consumer orientated.

    You could also have included Windows 1.1 and 2.1 but as the user base for them would have been tiny it's no real omission, I do remember in about 2006~ when I was at college we found in a cupboard an IBM PS/2 30 which did have a working copy of Windows 1.1 on the HDD.

    But back to the thread in hand I have never found HP stuff to be junk it's certainly better than any Epson stuff I have come across, plus both school and college were 100% HP and they never seemed to have problems either. Then again I have a colour laser all in one now and have had a string of lasers, both colour and B/W, and wouldn't go back to inkjet.

    Just a word if you or anyone is thinking of going for a laser check the consumable cost and if you can get compatibles before you buy as the pages per cartridge vary immensely, plus higher end, end of line models can be got relatively cheaply and generally have lower consumable cost per page.
     

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