New 8,400 mile route will link London to Tokyo via train

[PudseyBearHST]

Apologies if this is already being discussed on another thread but I saw this on the news today:

"Passengers might soon be able to travel from London to Tokyo on the Trans-Siberian railway via an 8,400 mile route, in an ambitious proposal by the Russian government.

The project would involve constructing a 28-mile bridge that would allow trains to cross the East Sea.

Beginning in London, the train would take travellers through the heart of Russia before concluding in Wakkanai, Japan.

The proposal is being described as a “bridge across history” due to Moscow and Tokyo failing to ever reach a treaty agreement, ending the antagonisms following World War II.

The trip is one of great topographic value, with trains passing through Germany and Poland before entering Eastern Europe.

Passengers would also pass through the Siberian Mountains before reaching the proposed bridge, a blueprint for the route shows.

Reportedly keen to boost investment in the eastern parts of Russia, Putin is in serious talks with Japanese officials to kickstart plans.

The Russian president’s environmental aid, Sergei Ivanov, has said that a link between Japan and Sakhalin – Russia’s largest island which was half controlled by Tokyo before WWII – was a “long held dream” and would hugely benefit oil and gas production in the country.

"We are seriously offering Japanese partners to consider the construction of a mixed road and railway passage from Hokkaido to southern part of Sakhalin," explained Russia's first vice-premier Igor Shuvalov, the Siberian Times reports.

The plans were revealed at Russia’s Eastern Economic Forum, hosted by Putin in Vladivostok.

Currently, travellers can take the Trans-Siberian railway from Beijing through Mongolia and onto Moscow, arriving in the Russian capital in as little as 15 days.

It’s a route that’s proven hugely popular amongst eager wanderlusts and gap year students. "

Source: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/...-train/ar-AAruVIr?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

 

[matt_world2004]

I imagine that it would not be a direct route to japan . with a few changed required.

 

[168lover]

Could imagine the announcements at Tokyo 'Apologies to the delay to this service, this owing to a delayed Southern service in front of us on departure from London, many days ago. Some say the southern train hasn't even left London yet...'

 

[High Dyke]

Yeah, but think of the figure you could achieve on the Mileage Competition...

 

[cjmillsnun]

Doesn't Russia use a different track gauge? In which case, I'd agree with Matt.

 

[AlexNL]

Russia indeed uses a different gauge. While inconvenient, it's not an insurmountable problem as gauge changing equipment has existed for decades and is being used daily, for example in Spain.

 

[fowler9]

After taking a bus in Cama Class from Santa Cruz De La Sierra in Bolivia to Buenos Aires in Argentina I think I would just get the plane. This was a modern Mercedes bus. I would rather have my eyes gouged by one of the dodgier residents of Retiro bus station than do it again over a day and a half. Ha ha. Seriously on a journey like that the majestic plains soon become incredibly boring.

 

[Chris999999]

It wasn't so long ago that there was a proposal to build a tunnel under the Bering Strait, so that you could travel by train from London via Russia to New York.

This seems a bit of an anticlimax really.

 

[Ploughman]

Is the China container train still running?

 

[jingsmonty]

Doesn't Russia use a different track gauge? In which case, I'd agree with Matt.

Spain already used variable guage rolling stock, I believe...think it's called 'Talgo'?

Nice idea, as long as it's not a 2 car 158 with no catering trolley...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Spain already used variable guage rolling stock, I believe...think it's called 'Talgo'?

Many Spanish train types use dual-gauge technology, and there are automatic gauge-changers at strategic points on the standard gauge AV network (run through at 30km/h).
Talgo are one manufacturer, but CAF also has a dual-gauge bogie design. http://www.vialibre-ffe.com/pdf/Track_gauge_changeover.pdf
Alstom and Bombardier have supplied trains to RENFE with this technology, as well as Talgo and CAF themselves (including tilting and bi-mode variants).
Of course, you need a special design of rolling stock, and there are performance penalties (eg 250km/h max speed) compared to single-gauge stock.

Talgo has installed an automatic system at Brest on the Poland-Belarus border, intended for the Berlin-Moscow service.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...anger-installed-at-belarus-poland-border.html

 

[axlecounter]

On such a long run I don't believe anything "automatic" (=expensive) would be considered. More probably the good ol' way: traditional coaches and bogies replacement at the border.

 

[Taunton]

Bridging from Japan to Sakhalin will not give a through route from London to Tokyo.

Sakhalin itself is an island and there is no onward connection to the Russian mainland. There is a rail network on the island, which has the characteristics of a country branch line, but, uniquely for Russia, it is 3'6" gauge. There is a proposed conversion project to Russian 5' gauge, which will then make it incompatible with the Japanese network across any proposed bridge, which remains 3'6".

 

[MarkyT]

Bridging from Japan to Sakhalin will not give a through route from London to Tokyo.

Sakhalin itself is an island and there is no onward connection to the Russian mainland. There is a rail network on the island, which has the characteristics of a country branch line, but, uniquely for Russia, it is 3'6" gauge. There is a proposed conversion project to Russian 5' gauge, which will then make it incompatible with the Japanese network across any proposed bridge, which remains 3'6".

I read gauge conversion is already underway and some dual gauge trackage is in place. There is a train ferry which presumably allows mainland wagons to access industry on Sakhalin. The 3ft 6in gauge on the island arises from former Japanese occupation of the south part of the island (until WW2). Japan also has European standard gauge, mainly for their Shinkansen high speed services. The Shinkansen network finally reached Hokkaido (the nearest Japanese territory to Sakhalin) in 2016 through the mixed gauge Seikan tunnel, and further extensions of the standard gauge new line on the island are planned.

 

[Adlington]

The 3ft 6in gauge on the [Sakhalin] island arises from former Japanese occupation of the south part of the island (until WW2).

Sakhalin was fought over by Russia and Japan at various times in history. In accordance with the Treaty of Portsmouth of 1905, the southern part of the island below the 50th parallel north reverted to Japan, while Russia retained the northern three-fifths.

So the reference to "Japanese occupation" is misleading, to put it politely.

 

[MarkyT]

Sakhalin was fought over by Russia and Japan at various times in history. In accordance with the Treaty of Portsmouth of 1905, the southern part of the island below the 50th parallel north reverted to Japan, while Russia retained the northern three-fifths.

So the reference to "Japanese occupation" is misleading, to put it politely.

Thanks for the clarification. Apologies if the term caused any offence to anyone. I understand there is still some sensitivity in the area today over control of a number of smaller islands further to the east.