New Arriva Northern Franchise - branding

Status
Not open for further replies.

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,965
I've been out of the loop on this forum for a couple of weeks and the 'Northern Franchise won by Arriva' thread has grown by about 20 pages in that time!

I'm just wondering whether we know anything yet about the new branding/colour scheme yet? Will Arriva just revert to the nasty cheap looking teal and cream or go with the darker blue that's been more prevalent on their busses recently?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Adam0984

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2014
Messages
945
By all accounts it gonna be a re working of the current Northern colour scheme
 

Danfilm007

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2015
Messages
124
I've been out of the loop on this forum for a couple of weeks and the 'Northern Franchise won by Arriva' thread has grown by about 20 pages in that time!

I'm just wondering whether we know anything yet about the new branding/colour scheme yet? Will Arriva just revert to the nasty cheap looking teal and cream or go with the darker blue that's been more prevalent on their busses recently?

Unless the trains are getting MAX or Sapphire branding, I doubt they'd get the dark blue :lol: :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness, I don't know! I always thought they'd just add more white on the front of the train!
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,238
Location
Lancashire
How about a radical scheme, enforced by DaFT in franchise rules, that all rolling stock should be painted exactly the same across all franchises and the only variation being the use of a franchisee vinyl badge. A suggested colour scheme might be Rail Blue with a 44-inch Pearl Grey (BS 2660-9-095) horizontal panel centred vertically on the main windows...
 

Agent_c

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2015
Messages
934
How about a radical scheme, enforced by DaFT in franchise rules, that all rolling stock should be painted exactly the same across all franchises and the only variation being the use of a franchisee vinyl badge. A suggested colour scheme might be Rail Blue with a 44-inch Pearl Grey (BS 2660-9-095) horizontal panel centred vertically on the main windows...

And what would you be hoping to achieve with this?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,391
Location
Redcar
And what would you be hoping to achieve with this?

Bringing back the 'glory' days? I mean the view is tinted perhaps a certain shade but at least the trains were all painted the same uninspiring shade of blue and grey...
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
12,758
Location
Another planet...
For me there'd be something nostalgic about blue and grey, but like most BR era liveries it'd be difficult to adapt to the regulations which require doors to be easily identified by partially-sighted passengers.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,238
Location
Lancashire
The proposed colour scheme was tongue firmly in cheek, but the principle is saving the massive cost of re livering rolling stock at every franchise change.
 

Agent_c

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2015
Messages
934
The proposed colour scheme was tongue firmly in cheek, but the principle is saving the massive cost of re livering rolling stock at every franchise change.

I know thats what they've done here in Scotland, and thats the reason that was given, but I wonder exactly what the cost of a rebrand is.

If it comes out of that pittance they usually pay off to shareholders, let em do it.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,391
Location
Redcar
The proposed colour scheme was tongue firmly in cheek, but the principle is saving the massive cost of re livering rolling stock at every franchise change.

Which is, of course, exactly what the DfT are starting to require see GWR, TPE and Northern for example. I'm sure I've read somewhere or other that there is a proposal floating around to do it with ICWC when that comes up again. Plus, of course, ScotRail at Transport Scotlands behest.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,615
Location
Macclesfield
The proposed colour scheme was tongue firmly in cheek, but the principle is saving the massive cost of re livering rolling stock at every franchise change.
Repainting typically occurs at the same time as a C6 overhaul for rolling stock, which takes place every seven years or so; no more frequent than changes of franchise are currently. Following sectorisation, BR certainly undertook to update its' image at around this frequency.

I can understand the benefit of sticking to a standard scheme that differentiates regional services from Intercity ones, however, irrelevant of operator, over an extended time period.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
27,740
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Bringing back the 'glory' days? I mean the view is tinted perhaps a certain shade but at least the trains were all painted the same uninspiring shade of blue and grey...

Talking of "glory days", I do not recall that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway ever considering the colour scheme you state above, but were quite happy with their own particular version of a two-shade livery...:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The proposed colour scheme was tongue firmly in cheek, but the principle is saving the massive cost of re livering rolling stock at every franchise change.

The saying that "familiarity breeds contempt" suddenly sprang to mind when I read your posting above.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,391
Location
Redcar
Talking of "glory days", I do not recall that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway ever considering the colour scheme you state above, but were quite happy with their own particular version of a two-shade livery...

Remembering the liveries of your youth Paul? ;):lol:
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
16,756
Location
Reston City Centre
This reminds me of a recent thread about DB freight locos where people were complaining that it's boring that everything was the same "red" but also complaining that DB weren't painting everything into this colour scheme fast enough...

...so expect enthusiasts to complain that Arriva are spending lots of their own money on repainting trains whilst also complaining that Arriva aren't painting everything quickly...

...even the Isle of Sodor repainted its engines from time to time, IIRC - though the less said about James's black/yellow colour scheme the better :lol:

I'd guess (like others have speculated) that Arriva will keep things fairly simple/ consistent over the first year or two, partly to avoid complicating things, partly to ensure that the new EMUs/ DMUs are seen as a Great Leap Forward (which is why I presume VTEC haven't painted their stock in the upmarket Pendolino colour scheme - so that IEP will turn heads).

Keep the blue/ purple/ white, or a version of it - it's a nice enough colour scheme - given that it has to work on several classes of unit (compared to colour scheme that can be designed to look good on just one or two types of train).

I wonder exactly what the cost of a rebrand is.

If it comes out of that pittance they usually pay off to shareholders, let em do it.

Good points.

I'm of the opinion that it'll be pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things, given that everything needs repainting/ revinyling every few years anyway (e.g. Stagecoach and First don't change their bus liveries very often but still need to give them paint jobs every few years).

If private companies would rather use money to keep their colour schemes fresh (rather than pay them as dividends) then fair enough.

(and let's not pretend for a moment that BR didn't do this kind of thing... how many versions of InterCity were there? Mainline, Swallow, Executive etc)

I'm sure I've read somewhere or other that there is a proposal floating around to do it with ICWC when that comes up again. Plus, of course, ScotRail at Transport Scotlands behest

I don't mean to argue, but I've heard this kind of thing over the years (e.g. before the East Coast franchise was won by VTEC - the story doing the rounds was that the white "base" of DOR would be kept as the basis for the winner).

Repainting typically occurs at the same time as a C6 overhaul for rolling stock, which takes place every seven years or so; no more frequent than changes of franchise are currently. Following sectorisation, BR certainly undertook to update its' image at around this frequency

Agreed - if a unit is off being overhauled then why not give it a splash of colour whilst they are at it?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,391
Location
Redcar
I don't mean to argue, but I've heard this kind of thing over the years (e.g. before the East Coast franchise was won by VTEC - the story doing the rounds was that the white "base" of DOR would be kept as the basis for the winner).

I quite agree! I'm most certainly not going to believe it until I actually see it! No arguing necessary ;)
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
9,556
It wasn't suggested that the White would be kept, just that it was a cheaper colour to replace (you could just paint over it at stations). The Grey would also be cheaper than the Silver they initially tried.
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
5,939
I don't mean to argue, but I've heard this kind of thing over the years (e.g. before the East Coast franchise was won by VTEC - the story doing the rounds was that the white "base" of DOR would be kept as the basis for the winner).

Here's the source...

DfT said:
Branding and product
The future operator will develop a brand which is reflective of the towns and cities served and respectful of the history of the route. The brand will be capable of
outlasting the term of the business creating a real legacy for train services on the route. Trains and the on-board environment will be presented as a modern, clean
and smart product for passengers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intercity-west-coast-overview-and-vision
 

a_c_skinner

Established Member
Joined
21 Jun 2013
Messages
1,468
I'm not a paint manufacturer, vinyl printer or rolling stock expert but a move to a generic but easily customisable livery would seem rational, especially for multiple units in the North.

Andrew
 

darloscott

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
682
Location
Stockton
All of the units that are staying in the fleet are expected to go through a major refurbishment so I would think they'll introduce the new livery at that point. Question is with hundreds of units to get through by 2019, when is it due to start? They're going to need some extra units just to give some floats to cover units being away for refurb...
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,615
Location
Macclesfield
(and let's not pretend for a moment that BR didn't do this kind of thing... how many versions of InterCity were there? Mainline, Swallow, Executive etc)
I recall reading the letters page from issues of Modern Railways from around the time that Intercity Swallow livery was introduced, circa 1988, where correspondents were complaining to the effect that couldn't BR just stick to one standard livery, and stop wasting money inflicting yet another new scheme on the public: Nothing ever changes! :lol:
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
27,740
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
I'm not a paint manufacturer, vinyl printer or rolling stock expert but a move to a generic but easily customisable livery would seem rational, especially for multiple units in the North.

Andrew

Why only make mention of " multiple units in the North" in your posting? If that is such a good idea, let it be made universally applicable.
 

159220

Member
Joined
23 Mar 2011
Messages
158
It better not be DfT Grey!

 

156441

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2011
Messages
501
Location
Manchester
The internal grapevine suggests similar to what one of the other posters suggested.
Units will be repainted into a new livery but only when they go in for refurbishment or are new trains. Basically in order to give the impression of new trains and improvement following the start of the new brand.
Units will start to be refurbished from the very start of the new franchise.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,615
Location
Macclesfield
From what you say, you will not like the Southern livery also.
Southern's okay: There's less of an unrelieved expanse of white and the livery also acknowledges the heritage of the Southern region in a fairly tasteful way. It's the likes of the Greater Anglia and new GTR schemes that I'm really not keen on, the latter of which that mock-up appears to be an approximation of.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top