New Builds for the future

Status
Not open for further replies.

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,822
I'm just interested to hear people's thoughts on which 'lost' classes of locomotive they'd like to see revived through new builds some time in the future?

Alternatively, are there any classes of loco where only one or two examples were saved but having more could be useful in the heritage movement?

A few things to keep it on track:
1. Yes, this is purely hypothetical! I have no influence over any societies and won't be starting a campaign!

2. I know some people feel that it's a waste of time/money but it looks like the new build movement is here to stay. Lets leave out arguments over whether there's any point in building new full stop!

3. Doesn't matter if it would be expensive: the P2 is costing £5m. We'll assume for arguments' sake that the funds can be raised.

4. Suggestions for locos for both mainline (as in the P2/Patriot) and heritage (like the 2MT/3MTs) welcome!

To get started, I've heard plenty of people suggest that the LNER W1 4-6-4 no 10000 Hush Hush should follow the P2 if that project is a success. A lot of people consider it to be one of the best designs never to be fully developed, so could be an interesting one.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,549
Location
Macclesfield
I'd like to see an LNWR Claughton: Maybe a follow on project for the LMS-Patriot Project, in the same vein as the A1SLT moving onto the P2?
 

bangor-toad

Member
Joined
20 Feb 2009
Messages
512
How about a completely new design and build?

For example there's been huge developments in boiler technologies since the end of steam on the railways. Whilst I don't know the details, I'm aware that some of these are remarkably efficient.

So what about a pulverised coal burner that's fully computer controlled? It may, or may not, use steam for mechanical drive or perhaps it could drive a turbine for electrical drive.
It may not look anything like a traditional steam engine. It could emulate a modern dual ended diesel. (Bullied would be right with the Leader design after all!)

I've no idea whatsoever about the practicalities of this but it seems plausible to me. All it needs in unlimited enthusiasm and almost unlimited cash :D

Cheers,
Mr Toad
 

AM9

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
8,842
Location
St Albans
How about a GER Claud Hamilton in the version with the belpaire firebox. Resplendent in Royal Blue it would look as handsome as any other loco around.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,822
Two ideas:

A replica of the Fell Locomotive.
And it's not technically a new-build, but sacrificing two 08s to make a replica Class 13.
If the Class 23 Baby Deltic counts as a new-build, then this counts! Do you reckon there'd be demand to see it happen?

How about a completely new design and build?

For example there's been huge developments in boiler technologies since the end of steam on the railways. Whilst I don't know the details, I'm aware that some of these are remarkably efficient.

So what about a pulverised coal burner that's fully computer controlled? It may, or may not, use steam for mechanical drive or perhaps it could drive a turbine for electrical drive.
It may not look anything like a traditional steam engine. It could emulate a modern dual ended diesel. (Bullied would be right with the Leader design after all!)

I've no idea whatsoever about the practicalities of this but it seems plausible to me. All it needs in unlimited enthusiasm and almost unlimited cash :D

Cheers,
Mr Toad
I think this is what the 5AT group are working towards. In the mean time they're working with other groups on restorations to improve performance on current locos.

For me personally, my biggest issue with this would be the exterior design. The images on the 5AT group's website strongly resembled American design practise. If it didn't resemble a British outline/design locomotive, it wouldn't be a 'proper' engine to many enthusiasts which would limit its appeal.
A developed 'Leader' could be an option though. I'd find the idea fascinating.

How about a GER Claud Hamilton in the version with the belpaire firebox. Resplendent in Royal Blue it would look as handsome as any other loco around.
I've heard it suggested a few times. Seems like it would be popular. Royal Blue is a lovely colour for a locomotive.
 
Last edited:

Trainfan344

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2012
Messages
2,136
I'd get a new build J15, that way the NNR can keep the current one as a Y14 and have an example of both at the same time...
 

TheEdge

Established Member
Joined
29 Nov 2012
Messages
3,518
Location
Norwich
Well, for utter pie in the sky, an LMS Garratt or a U1.

I must say it would be interesting to see some of the steam oddities; a Crosti 9F, as built W1, LMS Fury, the Great Bear.

Or for a what if, the oft wheeled out GWR design for a King-cum-Duchess pacific.
 

GrimsbyPacer

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2014
Messages
1,803
Location
Humberside
Classes 140, 151, 89 and 41 (HST proto) all need new trains for preservation.
I would like an old steam railcar that LMS or L&YR had rebuilt personally.

For mass production of old trains I would order:
APT-E for non-electric intercity routes to enable fast speeds.
APT-P/S for electric inter city routes.
Class 142s for rural routes with minimal traffic.
Class 156s for all other rural routes.
Class 180s for old Alphaline/Transpennine routes.
For metro services a Thrumper.
 

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,912
Location
Richmond, London
Classes 140, 151, 89 and 41 (HST proto) all need new trains for preservation.
I would like an old steam railcar that LMS or L&YR had rebuilt personally.

For mass production of old trains I would order:
APT-E for non-electric intercity routes to enable fast speeds.
APT-P/S for electric inter city routes.
Class 142s for rural routes with minimal traffic.
Class 156s for all other rural routes.
Class 180s for old Alphaline/Transpennine routes.
For metro services a Thrumper.
I think you're missing the point here. We're talking about extinct classes of locomotives / rolling stock and not stuff that already exists!

Incidentally the class 140 and 151 were trains in themselves so why would they need new trains?
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
5,048
Whilst high pressure boilers might work in static locations, experience on steam locos tended to be a boiler that leaked like a sieve. So - sorry, I don't think that LMS Fury or the LNER W1 (as built) would be good ideas.
The Garratts are an interesting idea - but where do you use them ? They are far too big for most heritage lines, and much too slow for use on the NR network.

My suggestions would be small to medium sized locos suitable for many heritage lines, and of types not represnted in preservation. I think I have posted something similar a few years ago - maybe in a different forum, but I would suggest choosing from (steam):

LMSR (LNWR):
0-6-0 DX Goods / Coal Engine or Cauliflower
4-4-0 Precursor or George the Fifth class
4-6-0 Prince of Wales class
2-4-2T (Webb)

LMSR (L&YR):
Aspinall 4-4-2 & 4-4-0.
Hughes 4-6-0 ( but modified to reduce coal consumption, etc.)

LMSR (MR)
Classes 2P & 3P 4-4-0

LMSR (Highland)
Clan class 4-6-0
Small Ben 4-4-0 (one was set aside for preservation, but neglected & sold for scrap)

LMSR (Caledonian)

Pickering 4-4-0

LNER:
Passenger / mixed traffic tank locos:
A5, C14, N5 (GCR); A8 (NER); N15 (NBR); L1 (LNER)
Tender locos:
4-6-0: B16 (NER), B17 (LNER);
4-4-2: C2 (GNR); C7 (NER); C11 (NBR)
4-4-0: D1 (GNR); D9 (GCR); D20 (NER)
2-6-0: K2, K3 (GNR)
0-6-0: J6 (GNR); J10, J11 (GCR): J19 (GER);
0-6-0T: J50 (LNER)
2-8-0: O2

SR:
Class K 2-6-0
SR (SECR)
D1 or E1 4-4-0
SR (LBSCR)
B4 4-4-0; Marsh 4-4-2T; E6 0-6-2T; C2X 0-6-0
SR (LSWR)
L11 or L12 4-4-0
H16 4-6-2T
700 Class 0-6-0

GWR is well represented, so just 2600 Class 2-6-0
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,822
Classes 140, 151, 89 and 41 (HST proto) all need new trains for preservation.
I would like an old steam railcar that LMS or L&YR had rebuilt personally.

For mass production of old trains I would order:
APT-E for non-electric intercity routes to enable fast speeds.
APT-P/S for electric inter city routes.
Class 142s for rural routes with minimal traffic.
Class 156s for all other rural routes.
Class 180s for old Alphaline/Transpennine routes.
For metro services a Thrumper.
...Class 142s? Are you serious?! The general population can't get rid of them fast enough! I know you're 'Grimsby Pacer' but I can't think of any logical reason for building more of these cheap, rotten junk heaps!
 

SpacePhoenix

Established Member
Joined
18 Mar 2014
Messages
5,492
How much longer could a new build to supplement/replace the 153s be and still be able to get along their routes without fouling things and get round the curves however sharp they are?
 

TheEdge

Established Member
Joined
29 Nov 2012
Messages
3,518
Location
Norwich
Whilst high pressure boilers might work in static locations, experience on steam locos tended to be a boiler that leaked like a sieve. So - sorry, I don't think that LMS Fury or the LNER W1 (as built) would be good ideas.
The Garratts are an interesting idea - but where do you use them ? They are far too big for most heritage lines, and much too slow for use on the NR network.
I did start the post with pie in the sky and oddities. Never said practical! ;)
 

Spamcan81

Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
631
Location
Bedfordshire
A Merchant Navy in original condition and a Leader so we have a full set of Mr. Bulleid's steam creations. A Gresley B17 and a K3 would be nice too. A big passenger tank, especially a Brighton Baltic.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,822
A Merchant Navy in original condition and a Leader so we have a full set of Mr. Bulleid's steam creations. A Gresley B17 and a K3 would be nice too. A big passenger tank, especially a Brighton Baltic.

An original con MN would be cool.

There are two projects to build B17s I think? One Footballer (Manchester United), one Windsor Castle!
 

E&W Lucas

Established Member
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Messages
1,358
A Merchant Navy in original condition .
Wouldn't need a new loco for that. Just lots and lots of £££. I'm sure there's at least one Barry wreck left?

A type of limited use on preserved railways; it would be interesting to see if engineering approval could be gained to run an unmodified one on the Network, given the reason for enforced modification in the first place?
 

Spamcan81

Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
631
Location
Bedfordshire
Wouldn't need a new loco for that. Just lots and lots of £££. I'm sure there's at least one Barry wreck left?

A type of limited use on preserved railways; it would be interesting to see if engineering approval could be gained to run an unmodified one on the Network, given the reason for enforced modification in the first place?
In spite of ideas being floated, nobody has grasped the nettle and gone for a back conversion yet. Whether new build or not, I'd still like to see one added to the heritage loco fleet.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
1,822
Wouldn't need a new loco for that. Just lots and lots of £££. I'm sure there's at least one Barry wreck left?

A type of limited use on preserved railways; it would be interesting to see if engineering approval could be gained to run an unmodified one on the Network, given the reason for enforced modification in the first place?
Haven't either Rileys or WCRC got a wreck that they're planning to outshop in BR Blue at some point if they every get it overhauled? Maybe that could be a candidate.
 

SpacePhoenix

Established Member
Joined
18 Mar 2014
Messages
5,492
Class 92s (but with whatever would be needed to be changed to allow them to run anywhere in the country (my gut feeling is that they'll be too heavy for some routes no matter what.

Class 158/159s as an express DMU

Class 153s for branch lines and to get rid of Pacers

And what the hell, lets say a dual voltage version of a 442:p:lol: (couldn't resist suggesting that one)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top