New Chester to Leeds service

[LNW-GW Joint]

The services show on the Northern app. £70.40 for a peak return and £51.20 for an off peak. No sign of any cheaper advance tickets though.

They are the existing Any Permitted Chester-Leeds fares set by TPE, aren't they.
Presumably there will be some kind of TOC/route-specific fares for the new Northern service as well.

TPE also has Advances (TP & Connections) via Huddersfield, and there are even some weird XC & Connections fares (presumably via Birmingham).

 

[Andyh82]

Northern really need to revamp their timetables to actually reflect the services running now, not the services that ran a few years ago with footnotes all over the place.

Why can’t they have a Calder valley timetable that shows the whole service from York to Blackpool/Southport/Chester?

It’d be good if they could actually allocate some space to actually ‘sell’ the new services as well, rather than just, ‘here’s the timetable’ with no information as to what is new.

 

[Deerfold]

I wonder how these changes are going to go down with locals? A few trains extended to Chester (and poorly advertised) resulting in 4-5 trains an hour Halifax-Bradford-Leeds but with a 27 minute gap nearly every hour. 2 trains an hour Sowerby Bridge to Bradford. 7 minutes apart. 30 years ago these managed to be roughly half hourly.

 

[Camden]

The services show on the Northern app. £70.40 for a peak return and £51.20 for an off peak. No sign of any cheaper advance tickets though.

What a rip off!!!

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder how these changes are going to go down with locals? A few trains extended to Chester (and poorly advertised) resulting in 4-5 trains an hour Halifax-Bradford-Leeds but with a 27 minute gap nearly every hour. 2 trains an hour Sowerby Bridge to Bradford. 7 minutes apart. 30 years ago these managed to be roughly half hourly.

There is no actual increase in the number of services is there not? Just that an hourly Man Vic service is extended to Chester?

Is the large gap where a 5th train per hour is supposed to slot in at some point?

 

[northernchris]

There is no actual increase in the number of services is there not? Just that an hourly Man Vic service is extended to Chester?

Is the large gap where a 5th train per hour is supposed to slot in at some point?

I presume the gap is to accommodate the Bradford - Nottingham service which will hopefully start in December

 

[Glenn1969]

That should form the 3rd Bradford- Manchester service so would indeed plug the gap Bradford- Halifax. Whether it goes to the Airport or Liverpool remains to be seen

 

[Peter A]

Following the introduction of the Chester service that still leaves one Leeds-Manchester Victoria service which is meant to be extended to Liverpool at some point and thus, presumably the gap will be filled by both the Bradford to Nottingham and Bradford to Manchester Airport respectively.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the Bradford - Nottingham future service, will this run via Brighouse, Mirfield, and Wakefield Kirkgate, or will it run via New Pudsey, Leeds, and Normanton?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Regarding the Bradford - Nottingham future service, will this run via Brighouse, Mirfield, and Wakefield Kirkgate, or will it run via New Pudsey, Leeds, and Normanton?

Neither!

It'll go Bradford Interchange to Leeds via New Pudsey, then reverse and go via Wakefield Westgate to get to Meadowhall, Sheffield and beyond.

 

[Andyh82]

Where are they suddenly getting extra paths via Wakefield westgate to run the fasts this way from as surely the reason Years ago for why the fasts went the ‘slow’ route was because there weren’t any?

Will Barnsley be receiving anything in replacement as dropping to 2ph would cause outrage. Before the fasts started they traditionally had 3ph

 

[30907]

Where are they suddenly getting extra paths via Wakefield westgate to run the fasts this way from as surely the reason Years ago for why the fasts went the ‘slow’ route was because there weren’t any?

Will Barnsley be receiving anything in replacement as dropping to 2ph would cause outrage. Before the fasts started they traditionally had 3ph

IIRC the first of the fast services ran via Barnsley because they were a rejigging of the Hallam route timetable rather than a totally new service requiring additional stock. I assume there will still be 4tph via Barnsley, as the fast service has provded itself, but no through service to Nottingham.

 

[The Prisoner]

Looking on RTT my fears for this service seem to be right - 2 hours 20 from Chester to Leeds is around 40-50 minutes slower than driving. And why are we running fast to Warrington - missing out Runcorn East in particular - and then stopping at pretty much everywhere else after Manchester. Are they that confident of a huge flow of Chester customers that they don't want to bother with Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East's Manchester customers?

Is this an interim service before Northern Connect starts?

Want this to work, but it looks a little cack handed

 

[Deerfold]

There is no actual increase in the number of services is there not? Just that an hourly Man Vic service is extended to Chester?

Is the large gap where a 5th train per hour is supposed to slot in at some point?

No, there's no extra trips - just some extended to Chester (and Prestons being reverting to being Blackpools). Currently gaps are a little uneven but there's rarely more than 18 minutes to wait at Halifax.

 

[Glenn1969]

From May you have to wait at Halifax from xx15/17 to xx42/43/44 for a Leeds train. I hope this gap will be plugged by the Airport service whenever that starts. I am also not sure why the new 2215 Blackpool to Leeds service is routed nonstop via Mirfield between Hebden Bridge and Leeds and I am sure the new 2338 Leeds to Halifax service will be popular

 

[Deerfold]

Also on the up side, after 30 years of Sowerby Bridge and Mythlomroyd having a last train from Leeds just after 2230 they at last have a 2300 departure (and after a year of having a half hour earlier last train from Bradford).

 

[Andyh82]

From May you have to wait at Halifax from xx15/17 to xx42/43/44 for a Leeds train. I hope this gap will be plugged by the Airport service whenever that starts. I am also not sure why the new 2215 Blackpool to Leeds service is routed nonstop via Mirfield between Hebden Bridge and Leeds and I am sure the new 2338 Leeds to Halifax service will be popular

And no doubt that 42/43/44 train will be 2 carriages, after having half an hour to build up customers waiting!

Regarding the time taken, that’s the problem I can see with these Northern extensions, yes they are through trains, but they are often just two stoppers joined together, rather than anything semi fast.

 

[Andyh82]

Also on the up side, after 30 years of Sowerby Bridge and Mythlomroyd having a last train from Leeds just after 2230 they at last have a 2300 departure (and after a year of having a half hour earlier last train from Bradford).

Interesting that the new 2300 is in addition to the current 2306. There is also of course also now a 2338, so the last train is now three trains.

 

[Glenn1969]

The new 2300 is a York to Blackburn service that was supposed to be introduced last year

 

[theshillito]

that’s the problem I can see with these Northern extensions, yes they are through trains, but they are often just two stoppers joined together, rather than anything semi fast.

Reading between the lines of what Northern have said on Twitter and their website, I am wondering if the real Northern Connect services won't be until December while getting the services running at all is happening sooner. Maybe they'll use ticket data to/from Chester to decide which stops would actually be useful on a semi-express (or is that too far-fetched and forward thinking)

 

[Glenn1969]

The Northern Connect services were never going to launch before December.

 

[Deerfold]

Interesting that the new 2300 is in addition to the current 2306. There is also of course also now a 2338, so the last train is now three trains.

And shows how much planning seems to be happening. "We've 3 trains between 2300 and 2340, should we space them out evenly?" "Nah, leave the old one right behind the new one then have half an hour gap."

 

[ainsworth74]

A reminder that this thread is for the Leeds - Chester service specifically it not for general discussion about Northern timetable changes. Please ensure your posts remain on topic or they may be subject to deletion.

 

[Glenn1969]

I hope TfW show the Northern Chester service in their Chester to Manchester via Warrington BQ timetable when that is published

 

[Deerfold]

A shame there's no extensions on a Sunday - with decent advance fares Northern might be able to tempt people for a day or weekend out in Chester without the worry of changing on low frequency trains.

 

[Glenn1969]

I was thinking that as well. Maybe that will come with the full Northern Connect launch

 

[Chester1]

A shame there's no extensions on a Sunday - with decent advance fares Northern might be able to tempt people for a day or weekend out without the worry of changing on low frequency trains.

They struggle to get enough staff to work on Sunday in the North West to meet their franchise commitments, let alone any new services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Reading between the lines of what Northern have said on Twitter and their website, I am wondering if the real Northern Connect services won't be until December while getting the services running at all is happening sooner. Maybe they'll use ticket data to/from Chester to decide which stops would actually be useful on a semi-express (or is that too far-fetched and forward thinking)

If Northern add more stops it will mean more stock is needed as the turnround times at Chester are short as it is.
Chester is very keen to get faster services to Manchester, which the Northern service achieves.
It does stop at both Earlestown and Newton le Willows which is curious for a semi-fast service.
You'd think a stop at Frodsham or Runcorn East would be more use instead of Earlestown.
The peak Northern trains do stop at all stations, and the odd off-peak one also at Eccles.

 

[theshillito]

If Northern add more stops it will mean more stock is needed as the turnround times at Chester are short as it is.
Chester is very keen to get faster services to Manchester, which the Northern service achieves.
It does stop at both Earlestown and Newton le Willows which is curious for a semi-fast service.
You'd think a stop at Frodsham or Runcorn East would be more use instead of Earlestown.
The peak Northern trains do stop at all stations, and the odd off-peak one also at Eccles.

I meant the other way around. Northern Connect will be using new stock which aren't ready yet, while the service launching next month is adding a Chester to Manchester leg meeting the requirement to connect Chester with Leeds, but not the spirit of Northern Connect to make it semi-fast. In other words, come December, the service between Manchester and Leeds won't be calling at as many places as it'll be a new service (If I am understanding and predicting right).

 

[Glenn1969]

I think it will. One of the premises of Northern Connect is a transformation of the Calder Valley route- but Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd have got vocal people who advocate most trains stopping there- I know this as a member of HADRAG our action group. Therefore pressure will be put on for the Chester trains to carry on calling at these stations