New Chester to Leeds service

[transmanche]

I've just seen Chester on the departure screen at Sowerby Bridge. The train was a 153+158 so evidently 75 mph units can keep time.

There seems to be a massive amount of slack in the timetable.

I boarded Saturday's NT4152/1D78 at Bradford Interchange, a single 156. It was 12 mins down by the time we reached Manchester Victoria (due to external factors, not the performance of the train) but managed a 10.5 min early arrival at Chester.

So, despite being checked to a stand at Earlestown, the train managed to 'gain' 22.5 mins between Manchester Victoria and Chester!

 

[mrcaa]

There seems to be a massive amount of slack in the timetable.

I boarded Saturday's NT4152/1D78 at Bradford Interchange, a single 156. It was 12 mins down by the time we reached Manchester Victoria (due to external factors, not the performance of the train) but managed a 10.5 min early arrival at Chester.

So, despite being checked to a stand at Earlestown, the train managed to 'gain' 22.5 mins between Manchester Victoria and Chester!

It’s so frustrating as that just shows that it’s possible to do Chester to Manchester in about 45 minutes and yet it ends up taking at least 70 at peak time since even the ones that are scheduled for an hour are almost always delayed.

 

[Bikeman78]

I've just seen Chester on the departure screen at Sowerby Bridge. The train was a 153+158 so evidently 75 mph units can keep time. What are the prospects now for the remaining Calder Valley enhancements promised, i.e. a through train to Manchester Airport and an additional Leeds - Liverpool? The former must be in doubt because of the issues in the Castlefields corridor; the latter would be yet another diesel service over Chat Moss!

Yesterday the 16:39 Leeds to Chester was 142052 & 156484.

 

[transmanche]

Yesterday the 16:39 Leeds to Chester was 142052 & 156484.

A single 158 (a refurbed job too, which was nice) on today's 17:16 from Chester to Leeds.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Yesterday the 16:39 Leeds to Chester was 142052 & 156484.

Was it busy enough to justify four carriages on the Manchester-Chester end? Good to hear loadings are that high if so!

 

[Bovverboy]

Yesterday the 16:39 Leeds to Chester was 142052 & 156484.

Was it busy enough to justify four carriages on the Manchester-Chester end? Good to hear loadings are that high if so!

Running four-car trains between Leeds and Manchester Vic and then knocking them down to two-car for Vic - Chester/Ellesmere Port would only save two two-car units. It wouldn't be worth the hassle, better to leave the four-car sets in situ and hope patronage catches up.

 

[SugrFr33]

1D75 currently running as 3*153, keeping to time east of Manchester (1 or 2L in some places, but has made it back up)

 

[Bovverboy]

1D75 currently running as 3*153, keeping to time east of Manchester (1 or 2L in some places, but has made it back up)

I caught sight of the consist on its way back from Chester, looked to be 153363 leading.

 

[Parallel]

I’m going to try and catch one of these services on Friday, can’t wait to see what Northern’s Random Unit Generator will allocate

 

[ATW Alex 101]

What units are on the Ellesmere Port services?

 

[ainsworth74]

Just a quick note, there was an interesting discussion developing around electrifying the Ellesmere Port to Helsby to enable an improved service but this was somewhat off-topic in a thread about Chester to Leeds services! It has therefore been split to a new thread which can be found here.

 

[175001]

What units are on the Ellesmere Port services?

Booked for a 150. 142 or 156 can substitute.

Won't be a 158 or 153 as only Lime St sign Ellesmere Port but don't sign the traction

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Booked for a 150. 142 or 156 can substitute.
Won't be a 158 or 153 as only Lime St sign Ellesmere Port but don't sign the traction

The morning service actually starts out from Lime St running to Ellesmere Port via Warrington, so presumably is an Allerton unit.

 

[northernchris]

The morning service actually starts out from Lime St running to Ellesmere Port via Warrington, so presumably is an Allerton unit.

The morning service is usually a 156

 

[Cheshire Rover]

First time on it from Helsby to Man Victoria this morning. Very lightly loaded until NLW though even then it was hardly full. A very pleasant experience being on such a lightly loaded service though I am sure it will get busier. Class 156 two car unit.

 

[ainsworth74]

Used it on Saturday from Leeds to Chester and then Chester to Warrington. Very well loaded in both directions for a service that's only two weeks old I thought. By no means full and standing but the train on arrival at Chester must have easily had 100 onboard and probably 50 or so when it departed Warrington going back to Leeds. Not much evidence of cross Manchester traffic but it seemed like there were a few people doing it.

 

[HotelNovember]

Liverpool crew do a trip or two - Monday-Saturday - not only Man Vic-Ellesmere Port & back, but also Man Vic-Chester & Chester-Man Vic too, now could be an issue if anything other than the booked 150/156 turns up on that (142 excepted of course!)

Why they didn’t learn 158’s who knows. But would have been handy as they could got a fair bit of work on the Cumbria-Airport services between Preston & Manchester Airport too (most of which are 158’s at the moment). But never mind!

 

[craigybagel]

Liverpool crew do a trip or two - Monday-Saturday - not only Man Vic-Ellesmere Port & back, but also Man Vic-Chester & Chester-Man Vic too, now could be an issue if anything other than the booked 150/156 turns up on that (142 excepted of course!)

Why they didn’t learn 158’s who knows. But would have been handy as they could got a fair bit of work on the Cumbria-Airport services between Preston & Manchester Airport too (most of which are 158’s at the moment). But never mind!

Probably because Northern have a big enough challenge as it is training crews up on 195s/331s without throwing in 158s as well.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

First time on it from Helsby to Man Victoria this morning. Very lightly loaded until NLW though even then it was hardly full. A very pleasant experience being on such a lightly loaded service though I am sure it will get busier. Class 156 two car unit.

Very disappointed. The return trip to Ellesmere Port this evening was cancelled from Man Vic so an hour wait for the Chester service at 1807. Unavailable train crew. Class 158 2 car unit.

 

[mrcaa]

Very disappointed. The return trip to Ellesmere Port this evening was cancelled from Man Vic so an hour wait for the Chester service at 1807. Unavailable train crew. Class 158 2 car unit.

Not a great start. Hopefully it won’t be a regular occurrence. I think it’s only the second cancellation since it started.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Not a great start. Hopefully it won’t be a regular occurrence. I think it’s only the second cancellation since it started.

I've used this service trouble free the past two days, morning and evening on the EPort route. Seems to be a few more passengers each day. Word getting around perhaps.

Both departures in the evening though have got stuck as far as Earlestown behind the Liverpool stopper. A bit annoying for a skip stop service.

 

[The Planner]

There seems to be a massive amount of slack in the timetable.

I boarded Saturday's NT4152/1D78 at Bradford Interchange, a single 156. It was 12 mins down by the time we reached Manchester Victoria (due to external factors, not the performance of the train) but managed a 10.5 min early arrival at Chester.

So, despite being checked to a stand at Earlestown, the train managed to 'gain' 22.5 mins between Manchester Victoria and Chester!

No slack in it at all, 1 minutes pathing at Ordsall Lane to maintain a junction margin presumably, 1 minutes engineering time at Winwick and 4 minutes pathing as I expect a train is on the fasts. It is then pathed out to keep away from the via Altrincham trains at Mickle Trafford. It made up all the time as it wasn't where it was meant to be.

 

[transmanche]

No slack in it at all, 1 minutes pathing at Ordsall Lane to maintain a junction margin presumably, 1 minutes engineering time at Winwick and 4 minutes pathing as I expect a train is on the fasts. It is then pathed out to keep away from the via Altrincham trains at Mickle Trafford. It made up all the time as it wasn't where it was meant to be.

Not according to RTT, which shows a total of 17 mins pathing allowance and 3 mins engineering allowance between Manchester Victoria and Chester. It also shows it as 12 late leaving Manchester Victoria and 10.5 mins early arriving at Chester.

 

[Starmill]

Not according to RTT, which shows a total of 17 mins pathing allowance and 3 mins engineering allowance between Manchester Victoria and Chester. It also shows it as 12 late leaving Manchester Victoria and 10.5 mins early arriving at Chester.

View attachment 64092

It appears that the train from Leeds passed Mickle Trafford ahead of the 1441 Manchester Piccadilly to Chester, when it is scheduled behind it. Presumably, there is some good reason why this cannot be scheduled.

The schedules are quite variable from one hour to the next. For example, the 1107 is given 31 minutes to get from Manchester Victoria to Warrington Bank Quay, and the 1207 is given 26 minutes. Both run with no stops. Some Northern services can make the journey from Chester to Warrington Bank Quay in just 23 minutes, but going the other way can take considerably longer. Other trains at Mickle Trafford and Frodsham Jn seem likely causes.

 

[The Planner]

Not according to RTT, which shows a total of 17 mins pathing allowance and 3 mins engineering allowance between Manchester Victoria and Chester. It also shows it as 12 late leaving Manchester Victoria and 10.5 mins early arriving at Chester.

View attachment 64092

Yes, but it isn't in there for a laugh, the engineering allowance is going to be there regardless and the rest is in there to keep the train compliant with the planning rules.

 

[transmanche]

Yes, but it isn't in there for a laugh, the engineering allowance is going to be there regardless and the rest is in there to keep the train compliant with the planning rules.

I didn't say it was there for a laugh. I just said it was there: all 17 mins of pathing allowance. But you seemed to imply there was only 5 mins pathing allowance.

The end result is the same. A train that was 12 mins late manages to 'recover' 20.5 mins of 'slack' to arrive 10.5 mins early.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I caught the 0715 from Ellesmere Port to Leeds on Monday as this was perfectly timed for the 1100 start to Yorks vs Essex at Headingley. But annoyingly the 0959 to Headingley was cancelled due to a trespass incident so I had to catch a bus. Loadings were about half a dozen from ELP and didn't really take off until Newton-le-Willows. The train doesn't stop at Frodsham or Runcorn East. The service then got busy in West Yorkshire and was well loaded by the time it got to Leeds.

The journey back was much less convenient. I just missed the 1839 from Leeds to Chester so decided to go to the pub and wait for the 1939. I had had to split tickets at Warrington rather than Manchester as the 0715 passed Victoria at 0820 before the 0830 peak/off-peak cut off. This meant I couldn't use TPE via Chat Moss, although I could have used TPE to catch up with the 1839 at Manchester Victoria. The 1939 has a scheduled 9-minute wait at Earlestown, don't know why. I didn't get home till after 11 pm.

Northern have now issued a new leaflet 47 showing the Chester - Leeds service. But, annoyingly, it doesn't give times to and from Ellesmere Port which is only mentioned in footnotes.

 

[Ianno87]

I The 1939 has a scheduled 9-minute wait at Earlestown, don't know why.

It lets a Liverpool-Drax biomass path head for Winwick Jn ahead of it: http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/H26831/2019-06-11

 

[Glenn1969]

The 1839 tonight was delayed by over an hour outside Bradford Interchange. The train was restarted at Man Vic 25 late with a different unit. 1D77 arrived Vic 87 late. There appears to have been some kind of issue at Halifax. RTT mentions an obstruction on the line. Hopefully not yet another fatality

 

[Bovverboy]

The 1839 tonight was delayed by over an hour outside Bradford Interchange. The train was restarted at Man Vic 25 late with a different unit. 1D77 arrived Vic 87 late. There appears to have been some kind of issue at Halifax. RTT mentions an obstruction on the line. Hopefully not yet another fatality

According to RTT, 1D77 was actually held for 80 minutes in P4 at the Interchange - was this not the case?

I haven't managed to find any explanation for the delay, so perhaps it was a fatality but was hushed up, which I believe is commonplace now.