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New Conditions Of Carriage (May 2012)
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Tomonthetrain
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"I'll have a Stourbridge Town-Stourbridge Junction CDR and a copy of the NRCoC Mr TM?"
Eagle
Established Member
I'm pretty sure the NRCoC could be made into poster format.
causton
Established Member
WillPS
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Shouldn't you have a copy of the NRCoC on board anyway?
MidnightFlyer
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However if you have a period ticket (i.e. Season or rover) as one of the splits it doesn't have to stop. I can only presume EMT were denying that.
Basically they make up their own rules or have a tantrum and throw their toys out of the pram. (See also: EMT penalty fares). I blame RJ for winding them up
WillPS
Established Member
Could anybody confirm if the wording has changed around the listing of train companies?
Eagle
Established Member
Yes, every TOC is now part of Southern Railway Limited.
Apart from Southern itself, of course, whose only remaining service is a bustitution between Ealing Broadway and Kensington Olympia.
causton
Established Member
Apart from Southern itself, of course, whose only remaining service is a bustitution between Ealing Broadway and Kensington Olympia.
Which ironically I think isn't operated by any TOC, last I heard it was operated specifically by the DfT (until it gets cancelled later this year of course)
WillPS
Established Member
There's a photo of it somewhere with "Arriva CrossCountry Rail Replacement Service" on the destination board.
causton
Established Member
Ah. Hard to tell when it appears in no timetables whatsoever! Do you have the latest timings for it? I want to get it before it goes (have asked Tellings Golden Miller but no answer)
...also, one time I caught a Southern replacement bus with 'Southeastern Trains' in the blinds, so I wouldn't trust that every time! :P
RJ
Established Member
Basically they make up their own rules or have a tantrum and throw their toys out of the pram. (See also: EMT penalty fares). I blame RJ for winding them up
I've done no such thing! I pay my fare and confine complaints solely to when I've been overcharged. For what it's worth, EMT are aware of what's what, although a minority of Train Managers don't seem to know how to deal with the situation correctly. I don't understand why they love giving out UFNs - I carry a UFN pad yet I almost never give them out, especially when people beg for them.
I haven't used multiple splits for months now - I've been using one through ticket for travelling. However, having investigated public rate tickets briefly, I found a brand new fare this week which sees me reverting back to using multiple splits. One of them involves obtaining an excess which is a change of ticket type, overdistance and change of route all in one fell swoop
RJ
Established Member
PLEASE avoid my trainhock:
It's a shame you feel that way - I enjoyed dealing with the more complex ticketing matters when I was in the ticket office!
Yes, it's the consultation document recently published on the "closure" (which, sensibly, is indeed referred to in quotation marks therein)
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2012-17/consultation.pdf (page 9, and subsequently)
Bus replacement – Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth Road (via
Kensington (Olympia)) – one per week, Tuesday 0945 out, return
1315
RJ
Established Member
But he's not in a ticket office. Seems like the train would be arriving in Plymouth by the time your tickets were properly checked out.
That's why I have the NRCoC and National Routeing Guide on my laptop. I can always justify the tickets I use. The problem is with guards who are unwilling to listen or make an effort to check. Or if they do check, the person at the other end being not having a clue either!
You can download the various bits of pieces of the routeing guide from here.
I don't see how it's any more intolerable for the onus to be on the ticket seller to check validity than for the buyer. Generally speaking, when I buy a ticket the first thing I am asked is what train I wish to travel on. An itinerary is then offered to me (either by the ticket clerk or the web page) so I am entitled to assume that the ticket is valid for that itinerary. Of course if I want to vary my journey that's a different matter.
Or the G4S crowd at Piccadilly. I look forward to questioning them
Any mention of what happens if the 'must' turns out to be a can't or won't ?
You can use the Cheap Day Single as an All Line Rover as no restrictions were explained
Last edited:
Flamingo
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You can use the Cheap Day Single as an All Line Rover as no restrictions were explained
And that's exacly what will happen, along with Super-offpeaks on the peak trains, Via Salisburys on the London trains, etc etc...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If I was sitting in a ticket office, with all the facilities available to enquire and a few other ticket windows open to deal with the queue building up whilst I sort it out, I'd probably enjoy it as well.
Out on a train, with only an Avantex to consult, 400 other passengers on the train (some of whom might actually require real assistance), four minutes until the next stop and a few dozen p*ssed up football fans in the carriage, it just comes under the heading of a pain in the arrse.
Sorry.
Hi all
We have been told that a new set of NRCoC will be coming into force from this Sunday (20th May 2012).
We have a copy of the new conditions uploaded on our website for all to see, and have listed (so far) all the new major amendments.
http://www.penaltyfareappeal.co.uk/wordpress/?p=2573
We have been told that a new set of NRCoC will be coming into force from this Sunday (20th May 2012).
We have a copy of the new conditions uploaded on our website for all to see, and have listed (so far) all the new major amendments.
http://www.penaltyfareappeal.co.uk/wordpress/?p=2573
causton
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Solent&Wessex
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The more I think about it, the more of a problem I can see with onboard ticket sales.
Now, as it happens I do carry a copy of the NRCoC and the Byelaws with me in my bag, but they are not take away copies for passengers (although I am happy to show them to people if required), and as I carry lots of other paperwork with me my bag is already full and weighs a ton without having to carry any more stuff around. I know, however, that most colleagues do not.
I think it is unreasonable to expect on board staff to carry with them the same full range of documents that you would expect in a ticket office, where they have computers, printers, files, cupboards, and plenty of storage and office facilities. Staff should have a general understanding of the relevant sections, but I do think it a bit unfair to be expected to carry the whole lot around - especially as the wording will, once it becomes common knowledge (see PFAS website linked to above), allow timewasters and generally awkward so and so's to cause no end of issues.
As regards restrictions, again we do not have the full range of facilities available. Whilst many simple tickets such as cheap day return etc are easy to find the details for on Avantix, trying to work out the complexities of the validity of a Super off peak return to London based on the limited and difficult to read text on Avantix Mobile is a nightmare - especially when many passengers ask for a ticket, and then (in my experience) when you try to explain the restrictions don't want to listen or say they know them anyway.
Now the latter point is no fault of the passenger, but I wish ATOC would think about what they are saying and try and fix something like Avantix Mobile (which, don't forget is used more and more on stations, gatelines, small station ticket offices etc) before implementing these changes. I'm sure Avantix Mobile is capable of being updated to make getting such information - especially routing information - much easier, but it needs someone to do it.
The wretched machine can't even tell you which route a ticket is valid for until you have printed it out. Based on the image below, please tell me what the different routes are for this particular journey? (Whilst I happen to know what they are, as it is a ticket I see often, if it is for a journey I am not sure about there is absolutely no way of knowing what the "Not via..." bit says until you actually sell the ticket.)
Now, as it happens I do carry a copy of the NRCoC and the Byelaws with me in my bag, but they are not take away copies for passengers (although I am happy to show them to people if required), and as I carry lots of other paperwork with me my bag is already full and weighs a ton without having to carry any more stuff around. I know, however, that most colleagues do not.
I think it is unreasonable to expect on board staff to carry with them the same full range of documents that you would expect in a ticket office, where they have computers, printers, files, cupboards, and plenty of storage and office facilities. Staff should have a general understanding of the relevant sections, but I do think it a bit unfair to be expected to carry the whole lot around - especially as the wording will, once it becomes common knowledge (see PFAS website linked to above), allow timewasters and generally awkward so and so's to cause no end of issues.
As regards restrictions, again we do not have the full range of facilities available. Whilst many simple tickets such as cheap day return etc are easy to find the details for on Avantix, trying to work out the complexities of the validity of a Super off peak return to London based on the limited and difficult to read text on Avantix Mobile is a nightmare - especially when many passengers ask for a ticket, and then (in my experience) when you try to explain the restrictions don't want to listen or say they know them anyway.
Now the latter point is no fault of the passenger, but I wish ATOC would think about what they are saying and try and fix something like Avantix Mobile (which, don't forget is used more and more on stations, gatelines, small station ticket offices etc) before implementing these changes. I'm sure Avantix Mobile is capable of being updated to make getting such information - especially routing information - much easier, but it needs someone to do it.
The wretched machine can't even tell you which route a ticket is valid for until you have printed it out. Based on the image below, please tell me what the different routes are for this particular journey? (Whilst I happen to know what they are, as it is a ticket I see often, if it is for a journey I am not sure about there is absolutely no way of knowing what the "Not via..." bit says until you actually sell the ticket.)
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Flamingo
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As I said, it's going to be a nightmare...
button_boxer
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And they said replacing routes of "X" and "not X" with "via X" and "not via X" was progress...
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