New Conditions Of Carriage (May 2012)

[All Line Rover]

Equip all staff with second hand iPads? They're cheap (sub £150), and are a great way of displaying PDF's on the go.

 

[GadgetMan]

Equip all staff with second hand iPads? They're cheap (sub £150), and are a great way of displaying PDF's on the go.

Trouble is, showing the passenger NCoC or Byelaws isn't enough. A copy needs to be made available on request. In theory you can have 300+ passengers onboard and they will all be entitled to ask for a copy of either document and the 'ticket seller' HAS to provide it.

 

[All Line Rover]

Trouble is, showing the passenger NCoC or Byelaws isn't enough. A copy needs to be made available on request. In theory you can have 300+ passengers onboard and they will all be entitled to ask for a copy of either document and the 'ticket seller' HAS to provide it.

Sorry if it wasn't clear but I'm talking about restriction codes and routeing validity.

Most trains have a cupboard so to fill it with 100 copies of the NRCoC and Byelaws isn't much of a problem, in my opinion.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I think it is unreasonable to expect on board staff to carry with them the same full range of documents that you would expect in a ticket office, where they have computers, printers, files, cupboards, and plenty of storage and office facilities. Staff should have a general understanding of the relevant sections, but I do think it a bit unfair to be expected to carry the whole lot around - especially as the wording will, once it becomes common knowledge (see PFAS website linked to above), allow timewasters and generally awkward so and so's to cause no end of issues.

As regards restrictions, again we do not have the full range of facilities available.

I agree that the new Conditions do state that:
"Train Companies and other Ticket Sellers must:

• Give you clear information before, during and where necessary after your journey, to help you plan and carry out your journey. This includes making these Conditions and the Byelaws available wherever you can buy a ticket . . . "

BUT

They do not require all ticket sellers (including on-board staff) to have access to all fares and timetable information on request. The Conditions are quite pragmatic in this respect and only expect staff to provide information that they have access to:

"Train Companies and other Ticket Sellers must:
• Give you, if you ask, information they have access to about:
- timetables and fares appropriate for your needs; for example, by telling you about the lowest fare or fastest trip for the journey you describe;
- whether your intended route is valid with your ticket;
- the accessibility of rail services and facilities in trains if you are disabled or have reduced mobility, for example the elderly and/or those travelling with small children or heavy luggage;
- whether buses are likely to replace trains for all or part of your journey; and/or
- restrictions on carrying luggage, animals or cycles on your journey."

[my bold]

 

[OwlMan]

Trouble is, showing the passenger NCoC or Byelaws isn't enough. A copy needs to be made available on request. In theory you can have 300+ passengers onboard and they will all be entitled to ask for a copy of either document and the 'ticket seller' HAS to provide it.

The new NRCoC do not say you have to give a copy to everyone they state

Give you clear information before, during and where necessary after your journey, to help you plan and carry out your journey. This includes making these Conditions and the Byelaws available wherever you can buy a ticket and making it clear who to contact if things go wrong.

The NRCoC and Byelaws could be made available by having a copy of such attached to the train next to the safety notices.

Peter

 

[barrykas]

Trouble is, showing the passenger NCoC or Byelaws isn't enough. A copy needs to be made available on request. In theory you can have 300+ passengers onboard and they will all be entitled to ask for a copy of either document and the 'ticket seller' HAS to provide it.

Au contraire. The official line from ATOC is that the Byelaws and NRCoC merely need to be available from ticket sellers for inspection on request. If you want a printed copy, you can get them from TOC Customer Relations offices.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[GadgetMan]

Au contraire. The official line from ATOC is that the Byelaws and NRCoC merely need to be available from ticket sellers for inspection on request. If you want a printed copy, you can get them from TOC Customer Relations offices.

Cheers,

Barry

Train Companies and other Ticket Sellers must:
• Give you clear information before, during and where necessary after your journey,
to help you plan and carry out your journey. This includes making these Conditions and the Byelaws available wherever you can buy a ticket and making it clear who to contact if things go wrong.

Whether 'Available' means for viewing or taking away is down to interpretation. When we tell passengers that timetables and other literature are available they expect it to meant it's in leaflet form that they can take away. What ever the official line is, reading the above, some if not most passengers who want to get into an argument will expect it to mean a copy for them to keep.

 

[Nym]

Equip all staff with second hand iPads? They're cheap (sub £150), and are a great way of displaying PDF's on the go.

Alternatively you could just have a copy kept in the cab.

Or get them two of these for the same price that can run any open source software that any TOC or ATOC would care to write...

http://www.ebuyer.com/367433-dgm-t-703-tablet-pc-t-703

 

[Eagle]

And they said replacing routes of "X" and "not X" with "via X" and "not via X" was progress...

Although some routes can't have a "via" dropped in in any legible way, such as Claphm J not Ldn.

 

[island]

Or LDN NOT GATWKEXP, or †RDG STRD INC LDN...

 

[tsr]

Or LDN NOT GATWKEXP, or †RDG STRD INC LDN...

"LDN NOT GATWKEXP" no longer appears to be relevant to anyone nowadays anyway...

 

[Eagle]

†RDG STRD INC LDN...

What is that second word meant to be? Stroud? Strood? Stratford? (And being as I'm reading 'inc Ldn' to mean you may, not must, travel via central London, surely the dagger makes that bit redundant?)

 

[island]

"LDN NOT GATWKEXP" no longer appears to be relevant to anyone nowadays anyway...

Most assuredly not wanting to reopen that can of worms, I think NOT GATWICK EXPRESS etc. is a valid restriction. But others won't.

What is that second word meant to be? Stroud? Strood? Stratford? (And being as I'm reading 'inc Ldn' to mean you may, not must, travel via central London, surely the dagger makes that bit redundant?)

Stroud. The intended meaning of the route is that you must travel via Reading and Stroud, and you may travel via London. I don't know if the † makes INC LDN redundant (you can have tickets routed †NOT VIA LONDON, such as Ilford to Blackheath).

 

[Eagle]

Stroud. The intended meaning of the route is that you must travel via Reading and Stroud, and you may travel via London.

Odd that, because I can't find a valid route that would pass through Stroud and not Reading though. (Via Stroud, Melksham and Salisbury isn't permitted for tickets that have this route—such as Gloucester to Gatwick—although interestingly via Bristol and Salisbury is permitted.)

 

[jon0844]

Not Gatwick Express IS a valid restriction. I argue that Southern Only isn't for excluding a service operated by Southern.

If they've changed things, that's a good thing. The problem will eventually go away anyway once Southern and FCC franchises merge, as there won't be any reason to offer a cheaper TOC-specific ticket for competition purposes.

 

[sheff1]

The official line from ATOC is that the Byelaws and NRCoC merely need to be available from ticket sellers for inspection on request.

I am confident the G4S crowd at Piccadilly will cheerily allow me to inspect the Byelaws when I pass through next week.

 

[jon0844]

I am confident the G4S crowd at Piccadilly will cheerily allow me to inspect the Byelaws when I pass through next week.

Can you give your confidence as a percentage figure, from 0% to 0.00%?

 

[reb0118]

I'll be interested to see how that one is worded (and if anybody implements it - I think the answer will be no).

I charge if they point blank refuse to move it. I used to charge the AAA luggage fare but was informed by a supervisor that I should in fact be charging the full passenger fare with no discounts if luggage occupies a seat.

(please note I only do this when the train is busy and pax are standing - fair warning is given over the PA also)

 

[Flamingo]

I charge if they point blank refuse to move it. I used to charge the AAA luggage fare but was informed by a supervisor that I should in fact be charging the full passenger fare with no discounts if luggage occupies a seat.

(please note I only do this when the train is busy and pax are standing - fair warning is given over the PA also)

I just pick it up and move it - again, fair warning is given before I do so

 

[GadgetMan]

I just pick it up and move it - again, fair warning is given before I do so

Preferably onto the platform

 

[Flamingo]

Preferably onto the platform

Never had to do so yet (but had to threaten to do so on a few occasions).

 

[island]

Never had to do so yet (but had to threaten to do so on a few occasions).

"Please note that professional bag thieves are believed to be operating on this route. Any bags left unattended/occupying seats required by passengers will be moved into the vestibule to facilitate the professional bag thieves."

 

[Flamingo]

"Any bags causing an obstruction on seats will be removed to a more appropriate location"

 

[Eagle]

"Any bags causing an obstruction on seats will be removed to a more appropriate location"

...possibly one with a distinct lack of sunshine...